kenggg Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 From http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Scrapers...per_Blades.html I would like make it by myself. But I'm don't experience about scraper. Can I made it from stainless plate? What's special point of Scraper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 (edited) They have to be made to precision specs, that is, blade edge, angle and profile. But yeah, I guess you could carve wood with a chunk of stainless. If you can get it sharpened to a fine enough edge. Don't expect to get smooth results. Edited May 13, 2006 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Nah. They're just stamped-out hunks of metal. Not much precision in their creation. Even store-bought ones won't do anything until you turn a hook into them, which is where the real magic happens*. There are several people on this forum who have makeshifted their own from various pieces of metal. I think somebody used a spoon as one of their favourite scrapers. It will come down in part to the metal used, though. It needs to be fairly thin, and yet rigid. If it's too thick, you'll never turn a hook on it. Scrapers are nifty little tools if you're any good with them. I suck with them, but the few times I've got'er going properly, I really saw the potential. They're nothing particularly special, but you need to understand how they work. First you burnish the edge, which means basically flattening it out so that the metal at the edge kind of "sticks out" in a way that's detectable with the naked eye, but isn't immediately obvious. Then you continue applying pressure, but toward the edges, so that the flattened-out bit becomes a very small "hook" shape. This hook digs into the wood and starts scraping off shavings. If you're any good. Which I'm not. Greg * I should say, where the magic allegedly happens. I suck with the burnisher and have only lucked into turning a proper hook a few times. I'm sure it's not that hard, but I don't like the tool I have. I'd rather have something a little more "automatic" (for lack of a better word). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth guitars Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Scrapers are a great tool to have. Those from Stewmac are way over priced. You can buy a pack of 6 for what they charge for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Scrapers are fab, and you can make your own. Tool-grade, hard steel, various thicknesses, go for it. There's nothing 'magic' about angles or shapes; it's up to you to square and hone the edges flat, and then turn a burr (Google 'tuning scrapers' or 'sharpening scrapers' for plenty of info), after all. Those are overpriced, somewhat (should be able to get a set for about 6-7 bucks. Good ones. There are differences). Different thicknesses do different work, and most all I've seen are carbon steel, not stainless. Only advantage I can think of with stainless is...not rusting. Not really a huge issue. And you can turn a hook on a scraper 1/8" thick, if you want to. Got nothing to do with thickness. If you want to take guesswork out of squaring and burnishing your scrapers, get the Veritas scraper burnisher from Lee Valley. Costs a bit, but it should work just lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 And you can turn a hook on a scraper 1/8" thick, if you want to. Got nothing to do with thickness. Well, except for physics. That's a lot more material to square off, burnish, and then turn a hook, regardless of whether or not the actual metal spreads out by the same linear amount (ie. you're only spreading it out by the same fraction of a millimeter on either side). If your edge has a lot of "surface area" to it, though, the compression of the metal will have to distribute over a much wider area. Certainly not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, but I wouldn't want to do it. That said, I'm sure Mattia knows about 5000% more about scrapers than I do, so I'll shut it now. I'm thinking in terms of logic and Mattia knows from experience. I might debate from time to time, but ultimately I value the latter more than the former. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 You're only compressing the very edge, really, so it's certianly possible. Thing is, you don't actually need to turn an edge on the scraper to create a useful tool. The burnishing IS turning the hook, one-step process. You're folding over the edge, kinda sorta, and how successful you are depends on the hardness of the two bits as much as anything else. It takes barely any pressure to turn a hook on a 1mm scraper, really. Interesting article on a solid, thick scraper, by Al Carruth (science-minded luthier): http://www.alcarruthluthier.com/toolOfTheM...uperScraper.htm It's still a scraper, just one that works differently, just as you burnish scrapers at different angles for different tasks, and use different thicknesses for different tasks. They're cheap and versatile. What's not to love, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenggg Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Thank you everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Mattia, if you continue to only compress the edge of a plane of steel, it will eventually dome. But taking a cue from the Carruthers article (cool read), I guess that's the point in time at which the grinder could come in handy, and once flat you could begin just compressing the edge again. So, you've won me over. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 scrapers are one of my favorite tools, but please, just buy one. The tool makers have researched the alloys required for a good edge vs longevity, and they really only cost a small amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Greg: you mean dome over the narrow edge? Even if you do, so what? that part doesn't come into contact with the workpiece. Al's scraper isn't burnished, just squared off. Works the same way microscope slides work (great scrapers for fine finish work, BTW. Small, sharp, easy to use, disposable). I agree with Perry: they're really, really cheap, so just go spend 20 bucks, and buy one of every scraper in existence. Or spend 5-10 on a nice set from Clifton, Veritas, Lie-Nielson, whatever...heck, your local mom and pop hardware store probably has card scrapers that'll do fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Mattia, I don't know why you're still trying to win a point when I've already conceded, but since I'm probably just as stubborn as you, I'll answer : If you create a domed shape on your narrow edge, you won't be able to create a proper hook. You can only "round over" the edge so much before it becomes impossible to draw enough material to create a hook from. That's the "so what". However, as I already mentioned when I conceded, it's should be relatively trivial with the proper tool (even just a file) to square off the dome again so that you can start from scratch. As for purchasing them, I agree completely. Lee Valley has the exact same ones as StewMac, for a little cheaper. They're not expensive tools at all. I don't know that their alloy composition has been all that meticulously researched, but for the mere reason of getting a variety of pre-shaped edges that you can work with, it's worth the price of admission tenfold. There are times where sometimes it's actually "fun" to fabricate your own tools and parts, but scrapers just doesn't seem to be one of those, for me at least. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Ahh, OK. Got it. Not trying to win a point, just trying to clarify something. I was confused because I tend to square off the edges very frequently (every 2 burnishes, max), because it's easy, and gives me a more consistent hook. Squaring up is part of the sharpening procedure for me. Maybe that makes me weird, but whatever [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis guitars Posted May 25, 2006 Report Share Posted May 25, 2006 Ahh, OK. Got it. Not trying to win a point, just trying to clarify something. I was confused because I tend to square off the edges very frequently (every 2 burnishes, max), because it's easy, and gives me a more consistent hook. Squaring up is part of the sharpening procedure for me. Maybe that makes me weird, but whatever [] i just use a razor blade works wonderful for me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Just wanted to say that I just bought a scraper for 3 euros... Now I just need to figure out how to use it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Just to clarify, the material which forms your burr is mostly from the faces of the scraper - not the egdes. You first burnish almost parallel to the flat face of the scraper, then turn this burr through 90 degrees by burnishing nearly perpendicular to the flat faces. The lapping/grinding/honing of a scraper creates a sharp edge, which will cut very effecitively, all turning the burr does is adjust the angle at which the scraper cuts most efficiently. You'll never get a decent edge on a scraper unless you've honed it the same way you would any blade - think of the narrow edge as the bevel of a plane iron, and the flat faces as the back of the iron. The cutting edge is the angle where they meet, it just happens to be at 90 degrees not 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz tradie Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 In the interest of keeping this thread in existence I have a query of my own . I bought a 3 pack of scrapers along with a burnisher and another straight scraper. Veritas brand. Now the 3 pack scrapers are .4 mm thickness whereas the straight one is .7 mm What will a thinner scraper do that a thicker one won't ? also the big difference in an alloy scraper versus stainless steel. What do you guys have the best results with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 The straight scraper will be stiffer, and more suitable for levelling work, removing sanding scratches etc, where you want to keep a smooth, flat , finish. It will also be less prone to chattering. The thinner scraper will flex, to allow you to scrape gentle curves. A good scraper will be made from high carbon steel, which will have a good balence of flexibility and hardness. Typically you'll be able to achieve a better edge than on a piece of stainless, and the edge will wear more slowly, meaning less trips back to the hone to touch up the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz tradie Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 It's a bit of a learning curve, especially trying to create a good hook on these things, but I'm getting there slowly, and might I add with the smile still on my face. I can see great things for the curved scraper, especially for carve-tops. ta for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Generally, the thicker the scraper, the more agressive it can be. Super thin ones can be used for finishing work, thicker ones for shaping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 Generally, the thicker the scraper, the more agressive it can be. Super thin ones can be used for finishing work, thicker ones for shaping. I used my scraper for the first time today --wasn't difficult to get the edge and it's a real pleasure to use. I really like the control you can get. Mines pretty thick -- .6 mm. I wasn't sure what tool to use for turning the edge --I just used the metal handle of a different tool. That worked, but maybe there's something better? In terms of finishing --do you use the scraper instead of sandpaper? Or do you sand first to a certain grade and then use the scraper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 FYI: .6mm is pretty thin. .7 or .8 are about normal, 'pretty thick' starts at 1.0mm, IMO. You also have really, really thin ones, though. Better: old carbide router bit, use the shaft. You want something harder than the scraper's metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dash Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 in my cabinet making days we just threw the scraper in the vice and used the shaft of a screw driver. cheers darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 in my cabinet making days we just threw the scraper in the vice and used the shaft of a screw driver. cheers darren Which is exactly what I did. Worked great too! I actually managed to get a hook and take off shavings, not dust. Still got a ways to go before I can get rid of the sandpaper though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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