thegarehanman Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 haha Zach(I realise that's not your name, but I couldn't care less), for future reference, I prefer to be referred to as a "hobby-tinkerer" as well, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonkey Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 OK then, I'm going to pipe up into this one. I've posted once in this topic and that was just regarding the shape of the headstock. I don't like it; in fact I actually said that it was made with wood from the ugly tree. However, I'm sure that there are plenty of people that will like it. Kind of like the Dean headstock, do you/don't you debate. As for the actual guitars (excluding the headstock) then I quite like them. However they are custom guitars so maybe he'd change the knob on a stick (headstock) for something the customer would prefer. As for his site, well there are quite a few things that we don't see eye to eye on. Most of these are things that are open to debate anyway and I would never say that I'm right about all of them. I've never played one of his guitars, so I'm really not in a place to comment on them. As for the thick plastic "condom" finishes, my Patrick Eggle has one of them and I love it. But that's kind of why we're all here. We all want to build the perfect guitar in our vision. I want my double cut to have a neck through because I think (rightly or wrongly) that it will give me better sustain. Some people don't think that, but I'm not going to have a go at them for it. However, I don't think that I would ever buy a guitar from him. For a start, the website is the least professional I've seen. I'm a bit of a big sweary bloke myself, but I know how to conduct myself in business. Swear at the right people maybe, but swearing at potential customers is something different, it'll put plenty of people off, including myself. Saying that though, he seems to have sold plenty of guitars so maybe it's worked. Either way, don't confuse the guitars with the man. I like what the guitars have to say, they say it very well (except for the headstock which says "don't I look like a cock on a stick "). It's a pity all the BS has been put along with it to drag them down. And where you think that all the people here are just hobby tinkerers, there is a massive amount of knowledge on these boards. There is a diverse knowledge brought in from many fields, some similar and some different. That's what makes this place great; personally I think that we have killed some of the guitar voodoo that exists by bringing in ideas from different fields. Either way, congratulations on getting Zachary guitars off the ground and hopefully paying the rent. I'm working with a luthier at the minute and I know how hard it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 For what it's worth, I wouldn't be seen with one of those butt ugly canoe paddles around my neck no matter what it sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Ok, I was ignoring, but how desperate can a guy be to take posts from a builders board and post them to his business web site? He quoted me trying to stop THIS draw out discussion that is not worth having. Funny how a stop being bated and wasting effort message can be important enough to be worthy of posting to his web site. He quotes Perry who was not commenting on his work per say, just trying to say get back to doing something productive and leave the guy alone. To each his own. I still say there just has to be a better things to do. Looks like the thread roles on. Z- Since you are reading this. Don't you think your time would be better spent making guitars. Instead of pulling random messages from internet boards? If that is the sales pitch, by all means randomly quote away. Just seems like a funny/sad way to do business. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Just seems like a funny/sad way to do business. You're talking about the same guy that has a big picture of two cats pawing at a dead mouse on his home page. His way of doing business is anything but conventional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Rich, if ive learnt only one thing in business, the saying "any publicity is good publicity" is as true as it comes. Ive have jealous types post about "how crap my guitars are", bla bla, which in turn had people go looking for my website, and then proceed to order my products. If nothing else, Zach's name is out there, and he is known. Same goes for Ed Roman. Both a little opinionated??? Yep, but people remember them. No use being the quiet shy person with zero opinions, and no website. How many builders who build 10-15 guitars a year can say they are that well known (as Zach)??? Sure, he isnt as well known as PRS, but he isnt building 19,000 instruments a year either. Having a say might turn away half the punters, but it definately attracts those like minded types, and they become customers for life. Like i said before, at least he is out there doing it, and not dreaming about it like many others on here. Good on him. Zach, feel free to quote my name on your page, just make sure you include my web address too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 (edited) Thats sorta what I meant a while back when I said he probably enjoys the controversy. It seems that its all just his way of making a name for himself and ensuring people remember him. And it definitely works too. Without his pages of BS (just my opinion) and his ..*ahem*...interesting..website he'd just wash into the back of your mind as a sort of OK guitar builder that you'd forget pretty quickly, but its his site really that makes him stick in your mind, not his guitars. Although I'm still dying to know where he gets this 'busywood' stuff from. IMHO using the names of other companies to attract peple to your site is a little dishonest though. He has a huge list of companies at the bottom of his homepage, and every page on his site has some title like 'PRS Guitars' to try to get him more hits from google. EDIT: Just noticed he corrected that spelling mistake (on the word Amsterdam) Edited June 28, 2006 by Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Perry, You called it. Publicity. That is why I would like to stop it, drop it, and ignor it. That would be nice of him to at least include a link to your site (course that wouldn't help his sales much ). At least mention you by name (your on the nice guy list ). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Like i said before, at least he is out there doing it, and not dreaming about it like many others on here. Good on him. Yep. And one of the things that attracted me to his, um, philosophy, is the fact that he started out as one of us --hell, his first guitar was put together on his kitchen table. Really, he's just a 'hobbyist tinkerer' like most of us, just that he's taken it to the next level, that's all. Chances are he still builds with a jigsaw and a rasp, like most of us. I've said it before --there are certain details to his work that I find quite inspiring. His blah-blah notwithstanding, some of things he's doing is very cool. Just to name one, I really like the way he bolts a neck on. Just looks cool. Part of it is that, really, he's not putting out a lot of guitars, he doesn't have some insane overhead to keep up, he can afford to experiment a bit. It's nice to see people break the mold, think for themselves a bit, try out new ideas even if tradition dictates that it shouldn't work. Too bad he has to be such a punk about it (in the pre-1970s sense of the word), but there you go. Can't have everything. Oh yeah, Ben--I'm waiting for you to post some better pictures of that headstock. Have you ever seen this Wandre headstock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Oh yeah, Ben--I'm waiting for you to post some better pictures of that headstock. Have you ever seen this Wandre headstock? I'm back at my dad's tomorrow so I'll get you some then (in sunlight as you requested ). It seems like it will have achieved a pretty decent break angle at the nut as I intended. I'm just not too happy with the oversized routes. I'm considering making another neck with an improved version of the headstock further down the line. I'm going to run with the one I have for now, and I might upgrade it later. For the second one I'll refine the design a little. That wandre headstock is interesting. Look at the low E and A strings though... seems like the tuner nearest to the nut is the A string and the 2nd is the E... which is a little odd. I like the metal bar that the tuners are mounted on. Seems simple and sensible. makes me wonder about modifying mine... hmm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 BTW Perry; I'd be surprised if he adds a link to your site. In fact I'd be surprised if hes even seen your site. If he saw your site you'd probably be one of the 'idiots' for laquering your guitars instead of oiling them*, and for using interesting finishes.. etc In fact your vine guitar [which I personally really like] probably epitomises everything he rants about (bar the fact that its non-cnc made) *I'm sure I read somewhere that oil varnishes actually damp vibrations more than nitro lacquer... I think it was in reference to violins when I read it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Brian Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Mattia made the front page... i hadn't noticed anyone actually posting anything about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Check back a few pages. It was the main subject of discussion for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 *I'm sure I read somewhere that oil varnishes actually damp vibrations more than nitro lacquer... I think it was in reference to violins when I read it Hard to believe that makes much of a difference on an electric solidbody though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 *I'm sure I read somewhere that oil varnishes actually damp vibrations more than nitro lacquer... I think it was in reference to violins when I read it Hard to believe that makes much of a difference on an electric solidbody though. Spot on Mick! This would be a tiny point of difference in the big picture on a solid body (most likely next to impossible to messure much less hear). A violin would be much more subject to the effects of this point as the body's ability to vibrated by the strings energy is the source of its sound. Sound is driven by string energy transfer to the pickup then amp in a solid body. It's kinda apples and oranges, but they do all grow in a similar field . P.S. Small points will be forever debated. Not to say they are ever totally right or wrong. I think we really need to keep an open mind, but more importantly keep our perspective on significance of these points. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Not everyone on this board WANTS to do it full time or for profit. Besides that, the fact that he's making a business out of it, or that he's getting any sort of publicity at all (I agree-- it's probably still good publicity!) has nothing to do whatsoever with any critiques on his voodoo. Such lines of debate are a red herring. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Not everyone on this board WANTS to do it full time or for profit. I think Perry pointed out at one point (maybe in a thread from someone dreaming about going pro) that building guitars is a much different thing when you're doing it full-time and your livelihood depends on it. Takes a lot of the fun out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Hard to believe that makes much of a difference on an electric solidbody though. I have no doubt. Just seems odd that the Zach/Alex guy goes on so much about how oil finishes let the wood resonate..blah...blah blah.......blah some more.... And rants so much about lacquer 'condom finishes'. Anyway... my aspiration is to get a regular job with relitively short hours and do some guitar building for fun on the side; and if I eventually make anything nearly good enough to sell, then maybe for some extra cash on the side too. Then I'd just play it by ear from there. If I found I could make decent money from making guitars I might work part time instead and build more guitars... who knows. I'm not sure I'd want to make guitars full time, because I'd imagine that until you have a well established 'name' for yourself the income could be a little unpredictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Not everyone on this board WANTS to do it full time or for profit. Besides that, the fact that he's making a business out of it, or that he's getting any sort of publicity at all (I agree-- it's probably still good publicity!) has nothing to do whatsoever with any critiques on his voodoo. Such lines of debate are a red herring. Greg Not many of us could afford the pay cut. At least not when our families depend on that income. I love building guitars and I for one am very happy at a hobbiest level. I sincerly hope I am also able to help out fellow hobbiest builders on this board. I could give a rip about promoting this fellow. My loyalties are here and with fellow members that are looking to be positive and supportive. Your absolutely right that 90% of this topic amounts to nothing more than a red herring. Calling his design ideas "voodoo" may very well be a misnomer as some are quite plausible. However his rhetorical presentation of these theories makes you question the validity of anything he says. In a nut shell of little value to the people I feel loyal to. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 My two cents: his guitars are ugly as sin. I don't care if they defeat your need for a woman they feel and sound so good! There are PLENTY better looking,a nd most likely better or atleast equally as good sounding and playing guitars for the same or less? Alot of people go "it's not how a guitar looks, it's how it plays and sounds" but I htink this hideousness goes past that. And plus, do we have ANY reason to believe they actually DO play and sound as good as he claims? No I didn't read all 13 pages cause I'm lazy... but does anyone here have one? Or has anyone tried one? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 but does anyone here have one? Or has anyone tried one? That would be a wierd coincidence. He hasnt made that many so I'd guess that the odds are low of a forum member having one. He has some videos on his site where you can see and hear him play some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 If someone buys one of zach's guitars, then more power to them. Buy what you like, what looks and sounds good to you. I could care less if the guys sells a few guitars because of this thread. I stand that a lot of his theories are just that: theories. Realistically, a lot of what we do is based on merely theories(although some of us put together theories on more credible information than others ). I'm not saying I agree with his business practice, I just really don't care to talk about him anymore, the point's become moot. peace, russ PS Zach, I still want my status changed to "hobby tinkerer" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 PS Zach, I still want my status changed to "hobby tinkerer" . Hobby Tinkerer is a registered trademark of Ormsby Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Well then, be certain to mention the status change to him when you're arranging to have a link to your site put up along with your quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonkey Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Zach - You're obviously reading this thread so why don't you sign up and have a look around the boards. We're all the same quilted maple and mahogany boat. Maybe discuss some of your ideas with people around here, you might even change some minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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