fyb Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I was thinking of trying a deep set tenon joint (probably back to the bridge) on an upcoming project, and I was wondering if you could carve it to make it basically heelless? It's basically be like a neck through in the neck joint area (except for the small part of the body wood at the bottom of the neck mortise). What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I can't see why not as long as you're not reducing the mechanical stability of the glue contact areas of the tenon and mortise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 yup...i have done it several times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyb Posted December 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I can't see why not as long as you're not reducing the mechanical stability of the glue contact areas of the tenon and mortise. Well, I figure that there should be plenty of glueing surface (certainly more than a standard set neck joint). How deep do you think I should make the mortise? I'm thinking the body will be 1 3/4" Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 i always go 1 1/4" thick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Done it frequently enough. I build with a stiff neck (carbon fibre rods), so that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I don't think there's any issue at all. My Melody Maker (and a lot of LP Jrs, I gather) are built in a similar way, that is, there is no tenon only the full width of the heel. On my Melody Maker, the heel only extends about 2 inches (starts with the 19th fret) into the body--and only an inch or so where the sides of the body are thick enough to give it any real strength. It's only set about 18 mm deep into the body, maybe less (don't have my ruler handy, I'm eyeballing the guitar). And like I said, only the 22nd fret, and part of the 21st, have any real meat surrounding them. I'm always bringing up this guitar because now that I know a little more about guitar construction, it always amazes me that this guitar seems to break all the rules--or at least all those learned opinions about what a neck joint should be like---and yet it's 41 years old now, still going strong...not only that, it has amazing natural sustain (i.e., unplugged), better than any other guitar I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 yeah i would not go quite that short on it...i always keep some meat at the upper horn where it really doesn't affect access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcovis Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I just did this to a LP project I am working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewu22 Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 I just did this to a LP project I am working on. I would like to see more pictures of that guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Irizarry Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 I would like to see more pictures of that guitar. +1. Nice work... Regards, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzocchi705 Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 On my paul that im building at the moment i have opted for a heelless design using a deep neck tennon, worked a treat. (click to enlarge) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyb Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 On my paul that im building at the moment i have opted for a heelless design using a deep neck tennon, worked a treat. (click to enlarge) Hey man, that's a beauty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Something that's been bothering me about this deep set tenon idea: Once you've routed for your pickups, haven't you pretty much cut that tenon in two (or three)? Especially since people seem to favor humbuckers for these types of guitars --how much of that tenon wood is left once you've scooped out enough to fit the humbuckers? Unless those tenons go a lot deeper than a normal neck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 I would hazard that you're correct there Mick. I suppose "deep set" neck tenons may well be deeper depthwise as well as into-the-body-wise. On the mockup bass I built, I created a "T" shaped tenon which dips almost as deep as the heel "to the outside world" and further up at the edges. That is as solid as anything even without glue :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 the tenon is isually about 1 1/4"-1 1/2" thicck at the heel on the ones i build if i plan on extending the heel past the neck pickup...my cavity depth on the neck pickup is about 1" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Something that's been bothering me about this deep set tenon idea: Once you've routed for your pickups, haven't you pretty much cut that tenon in two (or three)? Especially since people seem to favor humbuckers for these types of guitars --how much of that tenon wood is left once you've scooped out enough to fit the humbuckers? Unless those tenons go a lot deeper than a normal neck? A lot goes, yes. But if you make your tenon 1-1/4 deep, possibly more, and do a minimum of routing for humbuckers (they're not that thick), you can still have a fair amount of heft. I like doing it because I also use the extruding bit to line up maple tops (which get a matching pocket in them as well), and because the joinery is fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 well...the main reason i like to extnd past the neck ppickup on some guitars is that it surrounds the neck pickup in maple...because for clean tones i use the neck pickup...it makes the sound brighter on that pickup,and i like that. if i am making the neck out of mahogany i don't bother...i just stop it at the pickup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Interesting take there Wes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 well...it's just my reasoning in my head...i find the neck joint to be plenty rigid without the extension,so i only do it for sound. hard to say if i amright...it's just that the neck pickup sounds sweeter on the ones i surround in maple...and i usde the same pickups every time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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