jnewman Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Hey guys, here's my question. I'm building a black limba/wenge body, rosewood neck/macassar ebony fretboard guitar when I get around to it (i.e. when I have some free time!). 6 strings, 25 inch scale, Rio Grande P90's. Although I don't play a lot with a trem, it's something I'd like to play with more, and I got to looking at Kahler trems for this guitar. How does the feel and sound of the Kahler trems sound compared to the current Fender American series two-post trem? That's the only trem I have any experience playing on. I searched around, but Kahler comes up so often in so many threads that I couldn't really find anything specific. Thanks, Jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postal Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I dont have one for comparison, but I know *MANY* people that love them. People that have them rarely say they like a floyd more than the Kahler. Floyds/Kahlers are very different from 2 point strats since they are double lockin push pull affairs, while a strat 2 point is a single locking dive only *normally*..... (Yeah I know they can be set to full floating..... I have 2 setup that way with a 3rd under construction.... I'm saying "normally" they are not... for all you "correction Nazi's" out there! The only hang up is the price. Otherwise you have nothing to worry about regarding tone or quality. Just ne sure you have the correct neck angle for that bridge, as it's different than for a 2 point strat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted February 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 My strat's trem was originally set up as free floating (by the factory), although you couldn't get a whole lot of up pitch change out of it. I got tired of the trem and cranked the springs very tight and now the trem lays flat against the wood and only goes down . I have heard some people say that Floyds tend to be "brighter" than the old style trems, are Kahlers like this too? I guess changing to brass saddles or something could take care of the brightness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 the 7300 comes with brass saddles. strats are awfully bright anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IplayMayones Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I have a Charvel Model 6 with a Kahler. The Kahler has more sustain than a strat trem since the base plate is bolted on the guitar. It feels just like a fixed bridge. Also a lot smoother when using the bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chennik Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 I've been wondering myself about the Khalers. I have an Aria Pro II Blade Runner from the 1980s that I bought a few months back that has one, but it didn't come with the bar and I only played that guitar a few times before I put it in storage. (I'm deployed to Iraq now, so pretty much all but one travel guitar in my collection got packed up and went into storage). So, I've never really used a Khaler to know what they're like. When I get back, I'm planning on building myself a neck thru superstrat, and I've been considering buying one of the Khalers or a licensed floyd... though the khalers more expensive new than that entire Blade Runner was for the whole guitar. From what I've heard, the Khalers are sort of like a Bigsby on steroids, versus a floyd that is more of a fender style trem on steroids. I've heard that the Khalers are much smoother for subtle vibrato and fluid fast motions, but the floyd's beat them when it comes to the extreme dives and pull ups. Anyone else think that's an accurate assessment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_the_damned Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 From what I've heard, the Khalers are sort of like a Bigsby on steroids, versus a floyd that is more of a fender style trem on steroids. that's a *fairly* good assessment but not 100% true. I've heard that the Khalers are much smoother for subtle vibrato and fluid fast motions, but the floyd's beat them when it comes to the extreme dives and pull ups. Anyone else think that's an accurate assessment? they are good trems (very fluid but always return to a the correct pitch). As for floyds having a greater range I'm not sure....I've dive bombed both a floyd and a Kahler so the strings were touching the pickups (ie had no tension in them at all)...I'm not sure about the upper range comparisions though...mhmm I'll have to see when I've finnished the guitar that my new Kahler trem is going on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 try to match slayer pull upswith a floyd...you can't.i have to bend and pull up at the same time to reach the right pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted February 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Sounds like a Kahler might be just what I need. Thanks everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radrobgray Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 try to match slayer pull upswith a floyd...you can't.i have to bend and pull up at the same time to reach the right pitch all my floyd gutiars have better pull up than the one with the kahler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Though I've never played one, they were good enough for Slayer and the Charvel Model series. But I've also heard Dave Mustain call them tone suckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 you know you can adjust the travel ,right?or arre you hitting the wood in the bottom of the rout first?because you can rout them deeper than 1" if that is the case. but to pull a floyd up that much,you have to recess it further,or you have to have it leaning forward at pitch,and either way to keep from fretting out during pullup your entire action up and down the neck must suffer...not soi with the kahler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer X Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Had Kahlers on both my Charvel Model 4 and Model 6, and I loved them. Stayed in tune real well for me. Some say they are more maintenance, but I hardly ever did anything to them, and they were fine. You DO have to ensure the rollers don't get gunked up, though. As far as feel, I feel the Floyds are more touchy, and responsive than the Kahlers, but I felt I got better sustain on the Kahlers, maybe due to the design, and mass. Never had a problem with the Kahlers matching my Floyds, in the pullup department, either, like someone mentioned. Only ones I never liked were the Kahler Flyers, that were on some of the lower-priced guitars. Never held tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewu22 Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I have had many floyd trem guitars and a few Kahler trem guitars. I like the Kahler trem better. Not as touchy as a Floyd. I my opinion they have more sustain. They feel more like a standard bridge to me. I also got the same range of pitch travel with both trems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti-Idiot Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 just a silly question... on a 2200 or a 7200, can you do that 'rake' thing zakk wylde does? you know, strikin' the part of the string that lies between the bridge and the saddle... can you do that on a Kahler? cos i'm plannin' on buyin' myself a Kahler, but i also love to do those rakes (big tun-o-matic fan) and since i cant afford to buy two exact guitars and put a kahler on one and leave the other w/tom bridge. (yeah, i wanna put a kahler on a Les Paul, kinda like Jeff Hanneman 85's LP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 i don't know...there is some space between the saddles and the cam,so maybe.but how much can you actually use that sound?it's really very limited. i rake up on harmonics sometimes...especially on blues...but at least you have alot of harmonics to choose from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti-Idiot Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 i don't know...there is some space between the saddles and the cam,so maybe.but how much can you actually use that sound?it's really very limited. i rake up on harmonics sometimes...especially on blues...but at least you have alot of harmonics to choose from there well, on a tom bridge and with full of distortion, it sounds pretty cool. i just wanna know if it sounds good on a kahler... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 don't misunderstand me...i know exactly what you're talking about...and i agree it is a nice sound... i haven't strung up my kahlers yet...so i can't answer that...i really doubt it though,because even though there is space there,it is where the windings are on your strings...on a t.o.m. as you know,the windings are inside the tailpiece,and you are picking actual string there...i think if you do get a sound there,it won't be the same. everyone has their favorite sounds...i like to hit the bottom 4 strings at the 5th fret harmonic and dive on the bar...it screams down and then i flutter it beck up...i like to do this during stops (short pauses in the song),but like all specific little tricks,you can't use it everywhere,or you will be the only one enjoying it. do you just have one guitar?because if so i wouldn't do it...you have to rout a hole in the top for that trem and you will risk not liking it.most guys just keep a fixed bridge and a trem equipped guitar...one of each at least.one guitar will never have everything youwant...not if you are anything like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti-Idiot Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 don't misunderstand me...i know exactly what you're talking about...and i agree it is a nice sound... i haven't strung up my kahlers yet...so i can't answer that...i really doubt it though,because even though there is space there,it is where the windings are on your strings...on a t.o.m. as you know,the windings are inside the tailpiece,and you are picking actual string there...i think if you do get a sound there,it won't be the same. everyone has their favorite sounds...i like to hit the bottom 4 strings at the 5th fret harmonic and dive on the bar...it screams down and then i flutter it beck up...i like to do this during stops (short pauses in the song),but like all specific little tricks,you can't use it everywhere,or you will be the only one enjoying it. do you just have one guitar?because if so i wouldn't do it...you have to rout a hole in the top for that trem and you will risk not liking it.most guys just keep a fixed bridge and a trem equipped guitar...one of each at least.one guitar will never have everything youwant...not if you are anything like me no, i really want a kahler, and i plan to buy a few Les Pauls a put a kahler on it, and use in alternate tunings, and if i can do the rake thing, i wont need tom guitars, cos i'll be able to rake on a kahler, so there will be no need for having 4 guitars (Eb-kahler and tom, Db-kahler and tom) but just 2 (since i can't afford to but many les pauls, put some dimarzios, grover mini lockings, etc...). can u do me a favor, and try the rake when u string ur guitar? just lemme know when u string ur instrument and if the rake sound as good as on a TOM. i'll apreciate it. thanks PS: sorry for my bad english... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 well...it will be a bit before i get it strung.i just putthe paint on today and i had a serious mishap...i have to wait until it cures to figure out how major it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wammi Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 (edited) I've been wondering myself about the Khalers. I have an Aria Pro II Blade Runner from the 1980s that I bought a few months back that has one, but it didn't come with the bar and I only played that guitar a few times before I put it in storage. (I'm deployed to Iraq now, so pretty much all but one travel guitar in my collection got packed up and went into storage). So, I've never really used a Khaler to know what they're like. When I get back, I'm planning on building myself a neck thru superstrat, and I've been considering buying one of the Khalers or a licensed floyd... though the khalers more expensive new than that entire Blade Runner was for the whole guitar. From what I've heard, the Khalers are sort of like a Bigsby on steroids, versus a floyd that is more of a fender style trem on steroids. I've heard that the Khalers are much smoother for subtle vibrato and fluid fast motions, but the floyd's beat them when it comes to the extreme dives and pull ups. Anyone else think that's an accurate assessment? I am the tech and support head for Kahler USA and i can tell you flat out with out hesitation...there is no trem in the world has more pull up range than a Kahler cam system. all trems can dive to the floor but none pull back as far as a cam system. 7300's are now locking and on sale for $159.00 through www.wammiusa.com Edited March 19, 2007 by Wammi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 can you tell me why the ball end clips are too small for anything larger than42s?and can you tell me that the 7 and 8 string versions have large enough clips for the required strings? i am not being hostile...i recently bought three of these systems and these things concern me.i do not wish to have to go back to the floyd system.i just think there are a few things you guys should work on. you can p.m. me and i will be glad to tell you my opinion,which is 99% good,but there are some things you guys really need to clear up.and i think that doing so can only help your business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 http://www.wammiusa.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5 I already asked him on his Forum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wammi Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 just a silly question... on a 2200 or a 7200, can you do that 'rake' thing zakk wylde does? you know, strikin' the part of the string that lies between the bridge and the saddle... can you do that on a Kahler? cos i'm plannin' on buyin' myself a Kahler, but i also love to do those rakes (big tun-o-matic fan) and since i cant afford to buy two exact guitars and put a kahler on one and leave the other w/tom bridge. (yeah, i wanna put a kahler on a Les Paul, kinda like Jeff Hanneman 85's LP) yes you can rake no prob. its fun! Wammi J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wammi Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 can you tell me why the ball end clips are too small for anything larger than42s?and can you tell me that the 7 and 8 string versions have large enough clips for the required strings? i am not being hostile...i recently bought three of these systems and these things concern me.i do not wish to have to go back to the floyd system.i just think there are a few things you guys should work on. you can p.m. me and i will be glad to tell you my opinion,which is 99% good,but there are some things you guys really need to clear up.and i think that doing so can only help your business We all keep talkin string sizes and what fits. ITS NOT THE STRING SIZE THAT MATTERS. Its the doubled over windings at the ball that needs to go between the string hook slot. This is what you need to measure, and ALL strings are diff. Its impossible to know what strings would work. There are so many sizes and brands these days. I use GHS Boomers and I never have a problem. Right now I am using SIT's in my 6 string heavy. 7 string set minus the .24 ...NO Problem. string hook slots are .60 wide on the first 6 strings and .90 for the 7 and 8th., so the doubled over string at the winding must be less. Simple. Just don't push the envelope. Wammi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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