Second Guitar Build Is Underway.

[J_48_Johnson]

A couple before and after pictures...

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o176/J_...wo/P1000878.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o176/J_.../P1000922-1.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o176/J_...wo/P1000879.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o176/J_...wo/P1000985.jpg

Edited May 26, 2007 by Maiden69

[Daniel Sorbera]

Way too many pictures and TOO BIG

There are rules about this sort of thing. The picture cant be bigger than 640x480 and only one image per post. Please link the rest. It's hard to follow with all these giant images on the screen.

[J_48_Johnson]

After cleaning up the f holes and figuring out which pickguard shape to use, I cut it out of the material I had.

After that, I free handed the pick up routes and this is what I came up with.

[J_48_Johnson]

I cut out the control cavity and routed a groove for the cover to sit in so it's flush with the back of the guitar.

The cut away at the neck plate was done because of the overall thickness of the body. Since it's hollow, I wanted to make the cavities as big as possible and as deep as possible. Will make a difference in the overall sound? I have no idea!

The body was too thick for the neck plate screws I had. I could either run out and try to find long gold screws with the right head style, (doubtful), or I could cut away the rear of the body to make a pocket for the plate so it's closer to the fretboard. As you can see I went for option #2.

I shaped and cut a template for the pocket and had at it. Once I had it routed out, I slid the template back about 3/8" and used the V-groove bit. I doubt that is what the real name of the bit is, but you can see what it does by the picture. Since I just slid the same template back, it made a very neat taper on the backside around the neck plate.

[J_48_Johnson]

After I cut out the control cavity I drilled the jack hole. This picture is deceiving. It looks like the jack is off center from top to bottom. It isn't. The picture looks like it is because of the 1/2" roundover on the maple cap. You can't see the edge or corner of the cap so it looks like it's way off.

I used a "Dowel It Jig" to drill the 1/2" hole. I'm not sure if anyone has used or owns a Dowel It Jig, but it works like a wood vise. There is a stationary middle section with 1/4" - 1/2" holes in it. The entire middle section floats on guide pins and an adjustment screw with left hand threads on one side and right hand threads on the other. When you tighten it, the two sides, (like the jaws on a vise), move in to grasp the piece of wood you are going to drill into while keeping the middle section right in the middle of your piece of wood. Once tightened down, you can drill a hole onto the center of your workpiece without chips and it is perpendicular to the front/rear of the wood.

I used one many years ago in woodshop in high school. I found one at a local hardware store and picked it up. It's a neat little setup for just this kind of thing.

Onto the jack...

I wanted something that was clean looking as to not clutter up the edge of the guitar. I could not for the life of me find one that was gold to match the rest of the hardware. I ended up using the chrome or silver one you see here.

You can also see the endgrain of the mahogany boards I used for the body. There are six mahogany boards total to make up the sound chamber section of the mahogany to go along with the bookend quilted maple cap.

I'm planning on painting the mahogany edge black and doing a burst/fade into the center of the back to the natual mahogany. You can't see that there are three boards on the rear face of the body by looking at the back of the body since the grain is so darned tight and strait. I wanted to show it off a bit, but I still need to paint the edge to hide the glue joints you can see there.

[J_48_Johnson]

I really had a hard time deciding where to put the control knobs and switch on the body. This is what I ended up doing...

Since there wasn't a lot of room on the maple between the bottom f hole and the edge of the pickguard, I decided to lay it out so the volume knob was on the pickguard while the other two controls were on the maple cap.

I tried several layouts but this looked the best and it's functional. I even thought about putting them on the edge at the bottom or above the jack, but all in all, I'm happy where they are.

For some reason it looks like the volume which is on the pickguard is farther away from the tone knob than the three way switch. It isn't. Dead center of the three way switch and the volume knob are spot on the same distance from the center of the tone knob. Go figure.

This is a picture of the first full mock-up with everything in place.

Edited June 17, 2007 by J_48_Johnson

[J_48_Johnson]

After I tore everything back down, I was ready for the first coat of stain. I am going to try to lay a darker shade over this lighter color so it blends in with the pickguard and the neck.

I tried different stains, some were too dark, others too light. Some were too deep of a brown like mud, some were too light. I've been working on stain colors for a while now, and I couldn't find one that looks right, so I started messing around with two different stain colors.

I layed down a dark one, did a sand back and put down a lighter color. I tried a bunch of different colors for the darker first layer and I tried a bunch of lighter colors for the lighter top color after the sand back. All of them still looked muddy, or covered up the chatoyance of the quilt, or left little splotches in the grain. All of them were a no go.

After that, I tried it in reverse by laying down the lighter color first, and then adding the darker color on top. As odd as it sounds, it looked better. The chatoyance of the grain is still very nice, with no splotches or dingy muddy tone to the color. I'm still working on the top coat color so I don't have any pictures to show you of the final color, becasue I haven't mixed it up yet. That is still a work in progress.

[J_48_Johnson]

Since I'm still working out the stain colors, and it's time consuming, I thought I would go ahead and work on the f holes a little bit more.

The upper left and the bottom were easy to do since the maple cap hangs over the mahogany chamber underneath all the way around the f hole opening in the maple cap. The one on the horn wasn't so easy. On that one, to get the f hole opening the size and the shape I wanted, I had to cut into the mahogany edge I left around the body for glue. This left a straight line down from the maple and into the mahogany along the top edge and at the end of the horn. Part way down on the horn end, the mahogany glue edge follows the bodyline towards the neck, while the f hole goes away from that glue edge. It left a section where the maple rolled away from the mahogany underneath that didn't look right. There was nothing wrong with the construction of the body, it just didn't look appealing to the eye. To fix it, I filled it in with wood filler and used a sharp chisel to cut away lot of the filler I put in, (I overfilled it for shrinkage), and then sanded it to where it looks right. It took a lot of time and effort, but I think it needed done, and it looks much better now than it did before I started that part of the process.

All three f hole openings were painted. In the lower left one, what you see is about half black paint along the sides of the hole and half cavity cover from the other side of the body.

In the upper left one, it's all paint but I'm not sure why there is that little spot of light color in the hole. After I took this picture I went back to the body to see what was up. Nada. There's nothing there. It's like I got some dust on my film before I took this picture. Seems kind of hard to do with a digital camera though.

In the upper right f hole, what you see is a hand painted line on the mahogany right up to the glue joint of where I put the maple cap down. Towards each corner you can see a light line in the maple around the black f hole. That was from me sanding the hole before paint was applied. Those are fixed.

Edited June 17, 2007 by J_48_Johnson

[J_48_Johnson]

Here's a close up of the horn f hole. You can see a bit better what I'm talking about with the maple running right into the mahogany and the hand painted line to the maple cap. In person, you really can't tell that the maple cap doesn't overhang the mahogany underneath like the other two, and that's the look I was going for.

Edited June 17, 2007 by J_48_Johnson

[J_48_Johnson]

Here's a close up of the upper left f hole. There on the right side of the hole I have a little burn mark from the router I need to sand away, but it will be taken care of.

Edited June 17, 2007 by J_48_Johnson

[J_48_Johnson]

This is the lower left f hole. I can't get the lighting right, but trust me when I say this, what you are looking at is half black paint and half control cavity cover from the back side of the body.

Edited June 17, 2007 by J_48_Johnson

[mattharris75]

That light spot in the picture is probably from the light reflecting off the painted glue. It will definately handle light differently than the painted wood.

Anyway, the stain looks nice. good color choice thus far.

[tim_ado]

i still dont buy th holes but shape is alway opionated......so putting that aside this is looking sweet...love the wood

[J_48_Johnson]

I put down the second color for the body this morning. I wanted to get a bit of red in it to blend the pickguard color into the body so it would go with the neck as well.

Edited June 18, 2007 by J_48_Johnson

[J_48_Johnson]

Here it is after letting the stain sit on it a bit to darken it up just enough.

[ElysianGuitars]

bridge pickup is way close to the bridge, its gonna sound tinny and bright...

[TheIRS]

i have to agree here, that does look too close. but also did you make sure 100% that your scale length is correct? the amount of space from neck pocket to bridge looks way too long to me.

[jmrentis]

i have to agree here, that does look too close. but also did you make sure 100% that your scale length is correct? the amount of space from neck pocket to bridge looks way too long to me.

I think that might be a strange optical illusion on the scale length. The neck pocket is fairly long on the lower horn side, instead of going up a fret or two its more like 6 or 7, so it makes the pocket look big, ect. From the mock up it didn't look off to me really. It could also be the pickup placements which make the middle look long. I dunno?

ANyhow, I'm diggin the color on that last pic j48, the first pic with the stain on I was like wow, too much, then I realized what it was and saw the next pic. It looks good and will really help in bringing the colors together. Nice stuff. Keep the pics coming, I think this will look nice when completed. Are you going to finish it the same way as the other one you did. I remember you mentioned the other one kept blushing(??) on you, but then you found the solution. Just curious if you are going to try another way or do that one again. That one seemed to finish really nice, so not a bad way to go. Best of luck. J

[J_48_Johnson]

The scale length should be right on. I measured it several times and came up with the same placement each time. The low E is set back 3/16" from the high E and the tailpiece is straight. The bridge was meansured to the saddles sitting in the middle of thier adjustment so I have more play for intonation. I think it is an optical illusion because the body around the waist is thin making the dimension from neck pocket to bridge look out of whack.

The finish will be the same as the last one jmentis, and yes, I did have problems with blushing but now I have the solution; blush eraser. I have the nitro. lacquer but I forgot somehow to get sanding sealer. It should be here today or tomorrow so I can begin shooting it.

"ANyhow, I'm diggin the color on that last pic j48, the first pic with the stain on I was like wow, too much, then I realized what it was and saw the next pic. It looks good and will really help in bringing the colors together. Nice stuff. Keep the pics coming."

lol, yeah that first one you're talking about looks bad huh? In process work sometimes does until it's done.

Seems to me that a lot of people here don't really care for the body design, the bridge placement, pick up placement, color selection, f-hole layout or f-holes all together and that's okay.

We are all used to seeing the regular body designs of an SG, LP, Strat, or Tele to name a few. This is different, and unlike some, I get it. When I set out on this little trip, I wanted a design that wasn't the norm. I was thinking outside of the box so to speak and this is what I came up with.

If any of the nay sayers have designed, not built, but designed a guitar from scratch, not a one off or a knock off of a standard body shape or design, built it, and it was perfect in all aspects of the design phase, I would like to see it. If you have the pictures and it is that good, cast the first rock.

There are reasons that the "standards" became standards. Gibson and Fender hit on something when they came up with the designs of those fine guitars 50, 60, or 70 years ago. They just look right. Some of the others along the way, flying vee, explorer, and others are not the norm. Some work for me, some don't.

We all know that there are only so many designs you can have with one horn or two, single cut, or double, rounded, sloped, or beveled bottom end. Think outside the box a little bit. Maybe in 50, 60, or 70 years from now some crazy looking design will be the norm while the Strat or LP design will be, and should be, a classic design.

[biliousfrog]

For future reference you should keep the saddles closer to the front of the bridge rather than the middle as they aren't going to need any forwards adjustment only backwards. Usually the higher strings will be almost on the scale length whereas the lower ones will need to be further back. By having the saddles in the middle you're essentially cutting any possible travel by half.

[tim_ado]

We are all used to seeing the regular body designs of an SG, LP, Strat, or Tele to name a few. This is different, and unlike some, I get it. When I set out on this little trip, I wanted a design that wasn't the norm. I was thinking outside of the box so to speak and this is what I came up with.

it doesnt really matter what other people say al least you like it

theres a reason every ones building different styles of guitars....i mean there is NO design that every one thinks is the best ever..............if there was everyone would be building it

so i applaud you for going out there and trying something different

[jmrentis]

As Tim said, if you like it, then right on! I posted my design and no one liked it, but that hasn't stopped me from building it because I designed it to my tastes and since no one else is going to use it, its perfect for me. Some people might not like it, but that is their opinion and taste and sometimes I think those are conditioned tastes which only seem to agree with familiar shapes and designs and new designs tend not to sit well with them, but who knows. As for the pics I was talking about in the quote, I was talking about the pic where you had all the dark stain sitting on it, before you wiped it off. It just jumped to such a dark rich look that it seemed too much, but after you wiped it down and it left that nice tint, it looked great. Does that make sense, I was just talking about the pic with the actual stain left on. Anyhow keep up the good work and keep the pics coming. I'll tell you this, making your own design is much more challenging than building a guitar that has already been designed. There is much more research and work that goes into and you have nothing to use for reference aside from trail and error. Good luck and keep us posted. Jason

Edited June 19, 2007 by jmrentis

[tim_ado]

I'll tell you this, making your own design is much more challenging than building a guitar that has already been designed. There is much more research and work that goes into and you have nothing to use for reference aside from trail in error.

exactly there no templetes or anything gotta figure it all out yourself.........but a guitar isnt judged on the level of difficulty it was to make

judged more one wat the OWNER thinks of it

[jmrentis]

I'll tell you this, making your own design is much more challenging than building a guitar that has already been designed. There is much more research and work that goes into and you have nothing to use for reference aside from trail in error.

exactly there no templetes or anything gotta figure it all out yourself.........but a guitar isnt judged on the level of difficulty it was to make

judged more one wat the OWNER thinks of it

Very true! It's all about what you want in a guitar. I will say though that for builds I see in the GOTM people that their own designs, I tend to view a little higher, just as I would a first time build. Throw the two together and I would likely pick a good original first build over an excellent tele from someone that has done a bunch. Just how my mind works I guess. But your right Tim, no one should ever worry about anyone else when building their own guitars. I posted mine, just to make sure I had no major technical flaws, I pretty much knew no one would like the design, but I ended up changing it a little just shortened the width and opened the lower horn a little, which helped both technically and aesthetically. Had I not liked the change I would have gone with the original. ANyhow, good point Tim. J

[J_48_Johnson]

biliousfrog, thanks for the info., I'll tuck that info. away for future reference.

tim_ado, jmrentis, thank you, I feel better. I came on here not to be judged but to show what I'm working on. Constructive critisism is one thing, to be lambasted for working outside the LP, SG, Strat., Tele. box is another. If this design isn't for someone, fine. I know it's different, hell, I'm the one who designed it! I made it that way. I know it's different!

ElysianGuitars let me know what he thinks by saying that the bridge pickup is too close to the bridge and it will sound tinny and bright. That's fair. It's his opinion. Not knowing the person and not knowing how knowlegeable he is, I'll take it with a grain of salt, but, he may be right. It is close to the bridge, however, I never posted what pickup I'm using or what pots. or what cap is going into the guitar. Since his name is ElysianGuitars, I'll put more weight into what he says, thinking he more than likely is a builder, and has seen or made a guitar with the pup that close and it was tinny and bright.

jmrentis, I knew exactly what you meant on your post about the stain. I just snapped a picture of the in process staing process to show you the color of stain I mixed up.

Looking back, I may have left the horn f hole out and stayed with the two in the bottom. I can't plug the hole and I'm not going to ditch the body, I'll work with it, take what I did right and wrong with the entire process of design and making it, and add them into the next one.