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Bolt-on Neck Question


Lotza_Noize
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I have a neck that needs to be installed. My question is about the bolts. I want to use brass inserts knifethrslotteda.gif and install them onto the neck itself. That way I can use machine screws that thread into the neck through the inserts and not directly into the neck with wood screws. Does anyone see a problem using inserts like this one? Will using inserts kill tone or anything else?

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I have a neck that needs to be installed. My question is about the bolts. I want to use brass inserts knifethrslotteda.gif and install them onto the neck itself. That way I can use machine screws that thread into the neck through the inserts and not directly into the neck with wood screws. Does anyone see a problem using inserts like this one? Will using inserts kill tone or anything else?

I know that they are used in guitars. So I don't think they will kill the tone I think the opposite is true. If you can tighten the neck down more there should be better transfer of energy from the neck to the body. The only concern I have is if guitar makers use a longer insert. The new Yngwie Malmsteen Strat uses a machine screw mounting system.

This guy wants 90 dollars !!!!!! for the inserts and neck plate.

http://www.vintique.com/www.vintique.com/neckkits.html

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I have a neck that needs to be installed. My question is about the bolts. I want to use brass inserts knifethrslotteda.gif and install them onto the neck itself. That way I can use machine screws that thread into the neck through the inserts and not directly into the neck with wood screws. Does anyone see a problem using inserts like this one? Will using inserts kill tone or anything else?

I know that they are used in guitars. So I don't think they will kill the tone I think the opposite is true. If you can tighten the neck down more there should be better transfer of energy from the neck to the body. The only concern I have is if guitar makers use a longer insert. The new Yngwie Malmsteen Strat uses a machine screw mounting system.

This guy wants 90 dollars !!!!!! for the inserts and neck plate.

http://www.vintique.com/www.vintique.com/neckkits.html

YEA! That's all those are. The Stainless Steel inserts are only ~$4 each from McMaster Carr and the plate you can get elsewhere for ~$20 Maximum. And the screws are ~$1 each. You could do the same thing for ~$40 maximum. $90!?! Total Rip off!

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Try using 10-24 machine screws with a standard neck-plate, and you'll quickly realize why a thicker neck-plate is needed. I keep meaning to have a bunch made, but so far, don't trust anyone to do it totally perfectly. Incompetence runs rampid.

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I don't understand that Vintique stuff. I'm sure it is quality stuff, but man. $240 for a bridge? $45 for knobs?

He must be on something!

CMA

If anyone is tempted to buy from Vintique, I have a suggestion: take whatever money you planned on spending with him, burn it, and then repeatedly whack yourself between the eyes with a 2x4. Believe me, doing that will be less painful than actually having him take your money, hold it for years, treat you with contempt and not deliver the product.

If you doubt this, just go to the TDPRI and search for Vintique or Jay Monterose. Better yet, just have a look at this thread from January (and it's still unresolved!).

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I don't understand that Vintique stuff. I'm sure it is quality stuff, but man. $240 for a bridge? $45 for knobs?

He must be on something!

CMA

If anyone is tempted to buy from Vintique, I have a suggestion: take whatever money you planned on spending with him, burn it, and then repeatedly whack yourself between the eyes with a 2x4. Believe me, doing that will be less painful than actually having him take your money, hold it for years, treat you with contempt and not deliver the product.

If you doubt this, just go to the TDPRI and search for Vintique or Jay Monterose. Better yet, just have a look at this thread from January (and it's still unresolved!).

Jesus, and i'm feeling bad about giving a 6 month lead time that's turned to 8 ! at least mine'll be out the door in the next couple of weeks, what has happend between this guy and Vintique is just plain wrong.

Sorry, really nothing to do with original thread i was just stunned by reading that telecaster board thread.

Jem.

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yeah that thread is unbelievable. Words cannot express how erm..."upset" I would be to have that happen to me. I have had something similar but nowhere near that scale of incompetence.

As for the inserts...you can buy recoil sets fairly cheaply, once you have the set with the tools the inserts aren't much at all: http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil.as...CFQvmlAodjxE4zw

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Hi, newbie here. I found this thread by accident because I was searching for info about the machine screw inserts on the new Malmsteen Strat.

It's a subject I've been looking into for several months, because I found the neck holes on my Tele were badly misaligned (someone at Fender had an off day!) and I thought it might be tidier to use inserts than dowels.

The main thing I've found is that it's very difficult to find suitable inserts or machine screws in the UK, and there are very few US suppliers who'll ship here! I managed to get brass E-Z Lok inserts like the ones pictured at the top of this thread from Woodcraft, and stainless steel machine screws from Jamestown Distributors (whose shipping costs are extortionate!). I really wanted stainless inserts, but no-one will sell them to me - McMaster Carr accepted my order then cancelled it, McFeelys wanted a $250 minimum order... So you guys in the US are lucky! :D

Anyway, the inserts I ordered were the 10-24s. I tested then out on some scrap wood, and what I don't like is the sheer size of the insert - it requires a 3/8" pilot hole which gets dangerously close to the edge of the neck. I'm quite fearful that the maple will crack. So, I did a bit more research and found that Moses Graphite use 8-32 machine screws and brass inserts for their necks. And the 8-32 inserts only require a 1/4" pilot hole. So, off I went to Woodcraft and Jamestown again.

10-24 seems to be the favoured screw size for this application, but I can't see why 8-32 shouldn't work - the screw itself is as thick as a normal Fender neck screw and - happily - the 8-32 screw has a smaller head than the 10-24, which fits perfectly with a standard neckplate.

I haven't actually gone ahead and fitted the inserts on my Tele yet - haven't had time (and I'm still hoping I might find stainless inserts somewhere) but I'm reasonably confident that the 8-32 brass inserts will work fine.

Sorry for the long first post!

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10-24 seems to be the favoured screw size for this application, but I can't see why 8-32 shouldn't work - the screw itself is as thick as a normal Fender neck screw and - happily - the 8-32 screw has a smaller head than the 10-24, which fits perfectly with a standard neckplate.

I haven't actually gone ahead and fitted the inserts on my Tele yet - haven't had time (and I'm still hoping I might find stainless inserts somewhere) but I'm reasonably confident that the 8-32 brass inserts will work fine.

Sorry for the long first post!

Hey good info I am looking into using these also and you gave some good background.

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Um, my local hardware store has threaded inserts of various kinds, including brass and stainless, in regular metric sizes. Several of them do. Cheap enough. It's not like threaded inserts are only available in the US, or that you must get non-metric threads. Look for small mom-and-pop hardware stores, or stores that sell primarily to the building trade; they tend to be far better stocked than a screwfix or a B&Q...

Also, Lee Valley carries stuff and has no problems shipping internationally.

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Um, my local hardware store has threaded inserts of various kinds, including brass and stainless, in regular metric sizes. Several of them do. Cheap enough. It's not like threaded inserts are only available in the US, or that you must get non-metric threads.

Fair point - there are lots of different types of inserts available, but it's tough to get exactly the right ones for hardwoods. Many are designed for plastics, softwood, chipboards, metals... I've not found anything suitable in my own local hardware shops. London is surprisingly useless for those kinds of local stores, I guess they've all been put out of business by the bigger places like B&Q etc (which are no good for anything specialised).

You're right too about the metric vs. non-metric thing, but I came into this from a position of zero knowledge, and as I've been researching nearly all the info I've found has been on US sites - so I'm sort of "locked" onto the non-metric sizes which I know other people have used. I have searched generally for "threaded inserts" (and variants of that phrase) on UK/Euro sites but haven't had any luck.

Out of interest, which metric sizes would work, and which ones do you use?

Edited by Philly Q
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Axminster sells inserts by Trend, I bought a couple of packs recently but haven't yet used them. http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Trend-A...aking-23495.htm

I couldn't find the inserts anywhere locally & they even proved tricky to find on axminster as they're stocked as jig making accessories but they are available in the UK. They're used a lot in model aircraft & the helicoil/recoil sets are used to repair threads in all sorts of engineering applications.

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Honestly, people are overly worked up about which inserts are useable for hardwoods, and which aren't. I've seen standard deep-thread inserts at hardware stores here which work just fine in hardwood, as well as cast zinc tapered ones with individual 'teeth', technically for chipboard/fibreboard, which also hold more than strongly enough. And that's holding down an acoustic neck, which has more force, applied more directly, and applied to only two screws. If it holds that tightly...

As for metric, it's easier: M5 or M6, just pick your diameter. There isn't any of this overly complex threading stuff for various sizes. 5 or 6mm, standard metric thread. The most common kind of insert (omit the 'threaded') found online in the UK is the tapered one, which as said, works a charm:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_...le=1&jump=0

Pictured there, although Screwfix also carries it. The other type (barrel) I've only found on US websites and at various local, smaller establishments. I've used them with no complaints.

If you're building a strat-type neck from scratch, you can also use threaded T-nuts under the fingerboard surface, before gluing the board down. Very easy to install, but difficult to replace (although you could always pop an insert in an use a shorter bolt, worst came to worst). Finding attractive-looking screws might be a little more difficult, but a well-stocked hardware store (as in: sells hardware, not kitchen fittings and paint as well) should have something in their catalog that looks the part.

Personally, I use wood screws on electrics, and inserts and bolts on acoustics.

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Hi, newbie here. I found this thread by accident because I was searching for info about the machine screw inserts on the new Malmsteen Strat.

It's a subject I've been looking into for several months, because I found the neck holes on my Tele were badly misaligned (someone at Fender had an off day!) and I thought it might be tidier to use inserts than dowels.

The main thing I've found is that it's very difficult to find suitable inserts or machine screws in the UK, and there are very few US suppliers who'll ship here! I managed to get brass E-Z Lok inserts like the ones pictured at the top of this thread from Woodcraft, and stainless steel machine screws from Jamestown Distributors (whose shipping costs are extortionate!). I really wanted stainless inserts, but no-one will sell them to me - McMaster Carr accepted my order then cancelled it, McFeelys wanted a $250 minimum order... So you guys in the US are lucky! :D

Anyway, the inserts I ordered were the 10-24s. I tested then out on some scrap wood, and what I don't like is the sheer size of the insert - it requires a 3/8" pilot hole which gets dangerously close to the edge of the neck. I'm quite fearful that the maple will crack. So, I did a bit more research and found that Moses Graphite use 8-32 machine screws and brass inserts for their necks. And the 8-32 inserts only require a 1/4" pilot hole. So, off I went to Woodcraft and Jamestown again.

10-24 seems to be the favoured screw size for this application, but I can't see why 8-32 shouldn't work - the screw itself is as thick as a normal Fender neck screw and - happily - the 8-32 screw has a smaller head than the 10-24, which fits perfectly with a standard neckplate.

I haven't actually gone ahead and fitted the inserts on my Tele yet - haven't had time (and I'm still hoping I might find stainless inserts somewhere) but I'm reasonably confident that the 8-32 brass inserts will work fine.

Sorry for the long first post!

Wow good to know. Thanks. :D

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yeah that thread is unbelievable. Words cannot express how erm..."upset" I would be to have that happen to me. I have had something similar but nowhere near that scale of incompetence.

As for the inserts...you can buy recoil sets fairly cheaply, once you have the set with the tools the inserts aren't much at all: http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil.as...CFQvmlAodjxE4zw

I am not sure if this type of threaded insert would work with wood too well. I have used a ton of these things in metal projects. I dont think the thread gripping surface is deep enough for wood. I could be wrong, but I know they wont have a lot of biting surface when the wood is tapped.

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If your in the USA find Rockler.com on the web look up part#33209 it is for an 8-32 threaded insert zinc plated steel. The price is $2.89 american enough for two bolt on necks(8 pieces) on the back of the plastic bag it gives you the pilot hole size required for the insert. 19/16" for soft wood, 5/16" for hard wood (maple).

Edited by bootleger
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