DrummerDude Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hello guys, I just got a HUGE maple blank that has been dried for 8 years in the open air. It is fantastic. It has a handwriting on it that reads: "For the violin". Apparently it was reserved for some guy who makes violins. The blank is dry as a bone, it weighs 30+ kilograms and I already had the misfortune to drop it on the floor - it rings like a bell!!! What bothers me is that it has cracks in it. I guess that it's not a big of a problem, considering that I will make no more than one or two "neck-thru" necks out of it but still, what would your advice be about those cracks? Are they critical? How to avoid them? Please, have a DETAILED look at all the pics I have posted below. My overall impression is that the material is fantastic and it was absolutely hard for me to find ried maple where I live, but the cracks ar ebothering me. Should I cut the blank in smaller pieces and store it like that or should I not touch it and leave it in its present, solid condition until it is time for making a neck out of it? Thank you for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_ado Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 wow thats a hefty piece got to be better than beech was it u were using how much did u pay for that beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 The cracks will destroy anything you make from it. The items will instantly burst into flames. Just to keep you safe, I'll take it off your hands to dispose of it. The cracks are fine. They seem to be mostly concentrated around the ends from when the wood was originallyy dried. There seem to be a few around areas that have knots as well. Both of those are areas that allow moisture to escape quicker than the rest of the wood allowing for uneven drying which caused the cracks. By now the wood is dry and stable, so they are not a problem, you just have to work around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 (edited) Why am I always confused 1. Looks flat sawn 2. color stains looks to be just surface abuse 3. cracks caused by improper sealing on edges or using cheap sealer and knots, hard to tell from pictures where they go or how bad they are 4. knots mean compression wood and if you cut near the knots you may have made a long bow instead of a neck (trying to think UK here). better c;oser to the headstock end or bottom of the body The neck is a good reference except the neck and wood should be matched up against the side and not the top since you really would rather use a quarter saw cut from this slab rather than a flat saw cut. I see some picture of an edge its hard to tell if that grain is running at 45 deg to the face. So I would be looking to use the side as a reference edge for a neck not the top. neck through split the neck and maybe if its too narrow add a contrasting color strip down the center and reverse the grain for a more stable neck, At 45 deg angle the end grain would look V shaped when split and glued together. If its wide enought then you are set to go. Also 3 necks out of that huge slab, you are kidding me. maybe more like 10 or more if you plan it right. A better picture would be the edge of the board and neck together. I hope you have a good bandsaw. Also dropping wood I dont think makes it ring only when you bang your head against it enough times you hear ringing , LOL My 2 1/2 cents worth Woodenspoke Edited July 10, 2007 by Woodenspoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Well, I wish I had a recorder to tape it while it was falling and jumping down the stairs. It made that awesome ringing springing clinking sound that a piece of basswood (or pine, or mahogany, etc.) would never deliver, no matter how dry it is. Gosh, this is my first maple and I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 You need to identify the defects(mark them with something that is easy to see, and get a ruff plan of attack. At a glance the surface checks do not appear deep, but you will never know till you start exploring. Woodenspokes comments are good. You need to plan around the knots and compression wood(a thick slab may hold a lot of pent up stress). You need to read the grain to figure out how to get good straight grain necks(flat or quarter). I would still test the wood with a moisture meter before assuming it is dry(unless you are absolutely positive it was air dried for 8 years). Violin makers generally use softer maples(English or Bigleaf) not hard, so that is a little odd to me(but who knows??). Good planning, and leaving enough room to get good cuts and avoid checking or cracking is a must. It is better to get 5 great neck blanks than 20 sketchy ones. Don't rule out using smaller pieces for laminate necks, if you can get great cuts that way. You can't think of a slab the same way you think of dimensional lumber. I took a 8" thick by 20" wide, by 38" long slab of spalted maple and after planning around splits, checks, cracks and squaring I pulled 10 drop tops. Not a lot, but that is the best that slab would allow after avoiding damage. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thank you for your help! Thank YOU for the blatant massive pic overload....after 2 years I believe you are familiar with the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 (edited) Hi again, I apologize for posting that many pictures but bear in mind that they are linked to an external host server (www.imageshack.us) and cost no bandwidth to the forum owners. This kind of wood is called "planinski klen" where I live. This literally translates as "rock maple". It has been growing on a rather dry and rocky soil in the mountains and the wood is very, very dense and hard. The fact that it was ordered by a violin maker does not mean that he ordered it becuse it was soft (and I know for sur ethat it is not). I guess the violin maker busted his ass to find *ANY* kind of maple (just like I did) and when he found this one, he gave no damn if it was soft or hard because he knew it that it's not the right time to be picky and that buying hard maple is much better than trying to make violins out of pine (and pine and beech is all you can find here). Everything else is not used and thus - pretty scarce to find. Yes, I am absolutely sure that the log has been air dried for 8 years. It is marked on the log. Edited July 10, 2007 by DrummerDude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 not about bandwidth,about load time...again.gawd I hate that discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Hi again, I apologize for posting that many pictures but bear in mind that they are linked to an external host server (www.imageshack.us) and cost no bandwidth to the forum owners. This kind of wood is called "planinski klen" where I live. This literally translates as "rock maple". It has been growing on a rather dry and rocky soil in the mountains and the wood is very, very dense and hard. The fact that it was ordered by a violin maker does not mean that he ordered it becuse it was soft (and I know for sur ethat it is not). I guess the violin maker busted his ass to find *ANY* kind of maple (just like I did) and when he found this one, he gave no damn if it was soft or hard because he knew it that it's not the right time to be picky and that buying hard maple is much better than trying to make violins out of pine (and pine and beech is all you can find here). Everything else is not used and thus - pretty scarce to find. Yes, I am absolutely sure that the log has been air dried for 8 years. It is marked on the log. Like I said, Violin makers generally use softer maples(English or Bigleaf) not hard, so that is a little odd to me(but who knows??). Who knows? Violins are also generally made with well quartersawn wood, and toped with Spruce. It may be that in your area these woods are not available and he was making do with what he could find. Either way it makes little difference because your not making a violin. It is great that you are sure it has been drying for that long. It should help a lot with stability. Good luck slicing it up. I hope it makes for some wonderful neck stock. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I had a similar piece of maple a few years back. It was slab sawn wrn. maple with a few small burls and moderate flaming. From that I got a full sized telecaster body and 2 bookmatched tops and various odds 'n ends left over. Heres the build thread for the maple tele: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...c=12262&hl= The cracks are in a burl section of your wood and are very common once the wood has dried, I have similar cracks in the burl areas of my bookmatched tops. If you want to use those sections you can search for some of Drak's old posts on how he filled them with CA or black epoxy, I forget which, but I DO remember him posting something about dealing with burls. Go over the entire surface of your slab with a palm sander and then wet it down and show us whats in there as far as figuring etc. goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I don't have a palm sander. Guess that my power planer would be just as useful. I don't think that this maple has any cool figures hidden under its rough surface but who knows, maybe it's the ugly duckling of all maple logs and maybe there's a hidden swan underneath? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 I just planed and sanded a portion of the log to show the grain. I laquered it literally seconds ago and I will take some photos and post them here when I have the chance to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 DAMN! No burl, no swirl, no birdseye, no flame. Is this thing Maple at all??? http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9187/s5002228cw5.jpg http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1686/s5002231cp0.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 That's what plain maple is supposed to look like. [Edit: Actually, gwm is right, it does have some pretty dark grain lines for maple. Maybe because it's not dry?] Flame, quilt, etc., are not common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwm Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 That looks like ash to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Looks like just the beginning of a burl, more like a knob you see occasionally with a few small shoots (the dark colored knots) growing out of it. We haven't seen the other side yet. Edited July 11, 2007 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 But isn't "rock maple" supposed to have lots of interesting deformations in its grain because it has been growing on a rather poor soil and under harsh and ever changing conditions? How could I test it if it is maple and not ash (like some guy on another forum supposed)? It was marked as Maple and it was stamped that it should be used for violins but still, I am getting suspicious because of the lack of any interesting flares in the wood. On the other hand, I have several guitars with maple necks and there's no a sigle sign of maple grain "activites" on none of those, so I guess it's not that bad. I have heard that the less activity in the maple, the more stable it is. Heck, how to test this log if it is Maple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) It depends, not all maple is the same. Densities and grain structures vary between species, between trees of the same species and even between different parts of the same tree. Cut some small sections out (cube or rectangle shape) from different areas, measure the 3 dimensions (length, height and depth) to get the volume and weigh the section accurately with a small scale. From that you can work out its density and convert to kg/cubic metre. Then check out the various sources of wood densities on the internet. A few examples : http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_wood.htm http://www.csudh.edu/oliver/chemdata/woods.htm Its not the most accurate way to determine a wood species but might get you in the ballpark, ie. should definitely be able to sort out western and eastern maple. Where do you live and where did the wood come from? local or was it shipped in from somewhere else? You acquired the wood from a known source, go back and ask the person some specific questions. Most maple is plain and unfigured thats why the figured stuff is so expensive. Edited July 11, 2007 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Does it taste like pancake syrup? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonsg26 Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 looks like maple to me the unfigured maple can have extremely boring grain look at some of the les paul studios they use plain grain tops to cut cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Does it taste like pancake syrup? (Sorry, couldn't resist.) No, but it has Canadian wolverine claw marks on its bark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I hate to say it but I am suspicious as to weather its maple or not, a lot of what looks like open grain for maple. It wasn't a traveling wood salesman who was passing through now was it? Gave you that story that it was owned by a little old lady and her husband was saving it for that violin he was going to make then he died suddenly from a car crash. It was grown on a small hill side in ________(name goes here) where it received the harshest weather and will provided the best sound of any piece cut from that hill. Tell us the truth now. Sorry just had to do it A Picture of some clean cut end grain would help. One note even if you use a knot(why anyone would want to is beyond me) once you cut it you never know what will happen until after the cut same as any piece of wood. I would hold off on any glue up so the wood has a chance to move as it will. You can see how much compression wood you already have by the tight lines around the knot. Cut over size. How about some dimensions on the board too like depth? I'm not saying it isn't maple but in the NE USA rock maple is pretty bland piece of wood. Send everyone a sample of saw dust so we can smell it, my wood identity method, only use your nose; your eyes can be wrong LOL I should never write at night Woodenspoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Most definitely NOT maple of any variety. The open grain, as woodenspoke pointed out is the dead giveaway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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