fidgec94 Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Some questions.... If you had two virtually identical guitars, one with a scale of 25.5ins and one 24.75ins.....would they sound different? Example....one particular Shecter C series guitar has a length of 24.75ins but another in same series has a length of 25.5ins Ive read from various places that you cant take a strat neck and slap on a 24 fret top cos the intonation will be wrong. So how does the bridge some into this? If the distance between the nut and the 12th fret is 12.75ins, how do you work out where the bridge goes (assuming 24 fret neck)? Im much confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 If the distance between the nut and the 12th fret is 12.75ins, how do you work out where the bridge goes (assuming 24 fret neck)? No matter how many frets there are, the scale length should be equal to twice the distance between the nut and the 12th fret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 If you had two virtually identical guitars, one with a scale of 25.5ins and one 24.75ins.....would they sound different? I generally stay out of those type of arguments, but this is a -really- general rule of thumb to use... 24 3/4" scale is better for a P-90 equipped or Humbucker equipped guitar for a bit meatier, thicker, ballsier tone, and if you have smaller hands, or have a hard time with stretching that pinky out, 24 3/4" might be better. 25 1/2" scale...more typically 'Fender' tone...twanglier, stringier, more 'plucky', whatever you like to call it... These are really broad-stroked opinions and are open to debate by pretty much everyone who has an opinion. Ive read from various places that you cant take a strat neck and slap on a 24 fret top cos the intonation will be wrong. If the 24 fret neck is built for a 25 1/2" scale instrument, it will (should) work. Any time you swap necks, you might have a slight intonation adjustment due to the heels being slightly different from manufacturer to manufacturer, but if you take that 24 fret neck and measure the neck from nut to 12th fret and it's 12 3/4", then it will (should) work...dig? But these 24 fretted necks typically have an extended tongue fretboard, the heel would be at the same place a normal 22 fret, 25 1/2" scale would be. If they make the whole neck longer, including the heel, then it probably wouldn't work, because you would be moving the nut further back and THEN throwing off the scale length and intonation at the same time. The other issue is if the extended tongue fretboard will interfere with the placement of the neck pkp, if it will actually hit it. Basically, the amount of frets doesn't matter as to whether it will work for a particular guitar or not, it's all about the scale length the neck was built for in the first place...dig that? For instance...you could have a 21 fret, 22 fret, and 24 fret neck, and all would work on the same guitar body IF: the body had it's bridge placed at the proper location for a 25 1/2" scale length AND the neck was manufactured to be a 25 1/2" scale neck. If the distance between the nut and the 12th fret is 12.75ins, how do you work out where the bridge goes (assuming 24 fret neck)? You work it out by (as Saber already stated) ...by doubling the distance from nut to 12th fret. 12 3/4" X 2 = 25 1/2". So for that scale length to 'work out' and be able to intonate properly, the bridge saddles need to fall under the strings at the 25 1/2" mark (give or take a few 1/16" for intonation purposes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Ive read from various places that you cant take a strat neck and slap on a 24 fret top cos the intonation will be wrong. If the 24 fret neck is built for a 25 1/2" scale instrument, it will (should) work. Any time you swap necks, you might have a slight intonation adjustment due to the heels being slightly different from manufacturer to manufacturer, but if you take that 24 fret neck and measure the neck from nut to 12th fret and it's 12 3/4", then it will (should) work...dig? But these 24 fretted necks typically have an extended tongue fretboard, the heel would be at the same place a normal 22 fret, 25 1/2" scale would be. If they make the whole neck longer, including the heel, then it probably wouldn't work, because you would be moving the nut further back and THEN throwing off the scale length and intonation at the same time. The other issue is if the extended tongue fretboard will interfere with the placement of the neck pkp, if it will actually hit it. Basically, the amount of frets doesn't matter as to whether it will work for a particular guitar or not, it's all about the scale length the neck was built for in the first place...dig that? For instance...you could have a 21 fret, 22 fret, and 24 fret neck, and all would work on the same guitar body IF: the body had it's bridge placed at the proper location for a 25 1/2" scale length AND the neck was manufactured to be a 25 1/2" scale neck. If the distance between the nut and the 12th fret is 12.75ins, how do you work out where the bridge goes (assuming 24 fret neck)? You work it out by (as Saber already stated) ...by doubling the distance from nut to 12th fret. 12 3/4" X 2 = 25 1/2". So for that scale length to 'work out' and be able to intonate properly, the bridge saddles need to fall under the strings at the 25 1/2" mark (give or take a few 1/16" for intonation purposes) From what I've seen, overhangs are not that common. And what you say about necks being interchangable if scale length of the neck, and the bridge placement on the body is *not* true. The heel has to be at the same distance from the nut too. And it usually isn't, since it usually is right under the last 2 frets. So a 24 fret neck would normally have the heel much further down the neck than a 21 fret, meaning the scale length, and thus also intonation will be off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 If they make the whole neck longer, including the heel, then it probably wouldn't work, because you would be moving the nut further back and THEN throwing off the scale length and intonation at the same time. I think I covered that ground HERE ABOVE, (ahem)...but if you disagree, so be it, that's cool. But if you do disagree, then please offer up some better sage advice, just disagreeing with me w/o any experience or better answers of your own to add doesn't add anything to the conversation, it just confuses the original poster. If you want to disagree or just argue an opinion with me, that's great, but my post was aimed at helping the original poster fidgec. Do you have something else to offer him if what I said is incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 drak covered it well in his reply.he is correct on all counts.one of the few that truly understand the concept. i have to disagree about fretboard overhangs being uncommon....i have 5 bolt neck guitars...all with different overhangs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 The only bolt-on I have has overhang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidgec94 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Thanks Drak, i certainly dig all of that Just one final thing tho, i understand that necks and bodies need to be built to the same scale, however i dont quite understand what would happen if they weren't. Would the guitar not intonate properly at all? Would the guitar actually sound permanently out of tune? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 wound never intonate properly, although the open string could be put in tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 the open string would sound fine,but as you fretted notes they would be at the wrong pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DividedByJames Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Drak cover most everything, but I guess I should answer since I am a resident Schecter player...fidgec94 is likely refering to the archtop soloist shaped C-1 Plus and C-1 Elites. I play the C-1 Elites (25.5") because I personally like the scale (ie. fret spacing) and since I tune Eb, the longer scale length will keep the strings a bit more tight. It is a bit brighter too. But because both models are maple veneered tops on mahogany set necks bodies with dual humbuckers, you probably won't hear much difference if any. Now if you compare that 24.75" to a 25.5" triple single coil suspended on a plastic pickguard over an alder or ash body...then yes you will hear a major difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidgec94 Posted December 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Thanks for all the info guys, much appreciated. On a side note....the C1 Elite And just because you've got one Just kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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