Minimum Tools Required

[dpm99]

I realize there are probably a number of different opinions on this topic, but I'm wondering what, at minimum I'm going to need for my first solid body build, assuming I do NOT have to build a neck. Years ago, when I worked from my parents' garage, I had a bunch of power tools, including a table saw, a router, a jigsaw, a few power sanders, circular saws, etc. That said, I tend to prefer hand tools much of the time. These days I live in a one bedroom apartment with a wife and two guinea pigs, and own a toolbox that has been repeatedly "borrowed" from over the years, a circular saw, and a power drill. I think the toolbox has a couple of screwdrivers, a few tape measures, one dull chisel, cheap drill bits, and an extension cord. Today I bought a cheap caliper and a metal/fiberglass yardstick. Oh yeah! I've got a leatherman. Nobody's allowed to borrow that. I also have a holocaust cloak.

joshvegas recommended I buy a bow saw. I was just about to do so when it occurred to me I can get a jigsaw for less.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?...;ci_sku=9714685

I could build a saw, but I'd need a saw for that.

I'm trying to avoid buying a plane if possible, because they're so darned expensive. If I have to, I can, but it will eat away a huge portion of my already meager project budget. Maybe I can figure out a way to make a really long sanding board, and "plane" with really rough sandpaper. I have zero clamps. I think I'll probably have to invest in some. Or make some? I dunno. I was also considering getting a dremel and using it for pretty much everything.

My one remaining asset of those tools from years past is a router my brother has hung on to for me. It's not a plunge router, and I don't have a router table, but it works. I also don't have any router bits.

So if you were me, what would you do? I'd love to hear some recommendations.

Thanks,

Dave

[fryovanni]

Think through each step of your project and make a list of tools you plan to use. Type the list up and let us look it over. We can offer suggestions. When you have a list you can look at tools that can cover multiple tasks well, to allow you to spend the money on the most useful tools.

Don't go buy a bunch of cheap work around tools that may or may not really work(that is a HUGE waste of money). Think used tools after you have a list, you can get quality used or even reconditioned tools at much more reasonable prices. Sometimes the right tool will take you a lot further with multiple tasks, such as a good router over a dremel(which is way underpowered for many tasks and is limiting).

Rich

[CrazyManAndy]

A plane certainly would not be my first purchase. I'd rather spend the money on some useful router bits.

Edit: Ditto to Rich's list idea.

CMA

Edited June 2, 2008 by CrazyManAndy

[dpm99]

Rich, that's a great idea. I'm gonna do that. And it's good to know I don't absolutely have to have a plane just yet.

[Supernova9]

If I were you, I'd do as Rich said, and think about the steps involved in making a guitar, and build your list accordingly. Seeing as you have a router I'd focus on how I could use that to accomplish each step - I mean with a straight edge you can joint edges for glue-up, build some sleds and you can thickness a blank, profile cutters allow you to do the body shape and control/pick-up cavities, you can do almost everything with a a router and a jig of some kind.

[Quarter]

Definitely check out Craigs List, there are some good deals to be had.

I picked up this Ridgid oscillating sander for $40

,

[Mattia]

My best tip: buy tools as you feel you need them. A router is an absolute requirement for me, as are a rasp or two, and a handplane or two, but you're not me, and might choose to do things differently.

[ElysianGuitars]

Think through each step of your project and make a list of tools you plan to use. Type the list up and let us look it over. We can offer suggestions. When you have a list you can look at tools that can cover multiple tasks well, to allow you to spend the money on the most useful tools.

Don't go buy a bunch of cheap work around tools that may or may not really work(that is a HUGE waste of money). Think used tools after you have a list, you can get quality used or even reconditioned tools at much more reasonable prices. Sometimes the right tool will take you a lot further with multiple tasks, such as a good router over a dremel(which is way underpowered for many tasks and is limiting).

Rich

+1 to this, craigslist has been my savior. got my drill press, bandsaw, a lot of air tools, a porter cable router and a bosch router, and various other things via craigslist, all for great prices. probably gonna buy a planer and a jointer from craigslist soon too.

[dpm99]

Thanks for all the help so far. Let's see if I can do this. I may miss a few things along the way, and I'm not sure on the order of things.

Here's the project. This is my first build. I want to wait until my second to do something original. This is a learning project as much as anything, and as I said before, my budget is limited. I figure if I just try to reproduce something, I'll have a much smaller chance of making big mistakes. So I want to build a Jazzmaster. I've waffled on this point a lot, but I think it's time to just make a decision and stick with it. I will be using the neck from an Ibanez GSA60 to save money. I just happen to have it lying around doing nothing. Since the Jazzmaster and the GSA60 both have a 25.5" scale and 22 frets, I think it should work. I took apart my Tele and compared the necks, and they're very similar too. I understand the Jazzmaster uses (more or less) the same neck, so I think I'll just have to modify the neck pocket and the contour around it a little, and it ought to work.

The Neck

I'm going to cut the headstock in a straight line to remove all the wood to the right of the fretboard. This should not affect anything structurally, as I won't be coming near the tuners. So first I'll sand the headstock, and then cut. Then I want to glue a piece of maple to the right of the headstock (An ear? Is that what you call it?) and cut it to shape. So I guess I'll need something to make the two pieces fit together properly. That's called jointing, right? After that, I'll sand the neck to remove the finish. At the end of the project, I'll paint the headstock, attach a decal, and finish the neck with something that makes it looks really old.

The Body

I want to use white limba for this. At least that's the plan. I'm aware Fender uses alder and ash, but I want more of a Gibson-ish sound. I want it to look like a Jazzmaster and sound more like an Explorer. From what I see, the limba's not much more than the mahogany, and I want to relic it. So when I chip the paint up, the white limba should look more like alder/ash than the mahogany wood. I think so anyway. I was planning to buy one of the three-piece body blanks from exoticwoods.com. I assume it will come glued. Does anyone know?

I intend to buy plans from guitarplansunlimited.com, so I'll use those to map out the body shape. I have no idea how to do this. Eventually, I'll use some sort of saw-thing (jigsaw? bow saw? router?) to shape the body. It's more or less flat, and I figure I can do the arm contour with rasps and sandpaper, yeah? The belly contour seems to be a little more defined, but less visible. Not sure how to do that just yet.

I'll have to cut the neck pocket, and it will have to be adapted to fit the Ibanez neck. That will probably involve contouring the body a little, but I'm not exactly sure how yet. I imagine it will involve rasps and sandpaper.

I'll use a regular Fender pickguard, but I think I'll be doing some cutting around the pickup holes to install a 490R/500T set (I have that lying around too), or maybe some Duncan P-Rails, if I run into some extra money. The wiring and switching will be custom, but I'm not as worried about that right now. As long as I route the cavities correctly, I can figure out wiring later. Right?

What else? Tune-O-Matic bridge. I guess I'm going to have to cut some deep holes to make it sit as close to the body as it's supposed to. I'd like to put a bridge cover on it. I'll have to do a little routing for the Jazzmaster tremolo. I might shape the tail end of the (rosewood) fretboard just a little to make it look more like a Fender.

Then paint. Then nitro finish. Then beat the crap out of it until it looks forty years old.

What did I forget here? I'm sleepy.

-Dave

[anderekel]

Well, sounds like you have things pretty well figured out. Just to preface everything I'm about to say, a lot of this is stuff I've picked up, I haven't finished my first build, but I do have some other wood working experience. So, as far as cutting the headstock and gluing an ear on, you should be able to use a hand plane, as long as you can get the neck clamped in a good position. I'm just learnin' to use planes, they are awesome, I really enjoy them and they are quiet, very good in an apartment or condo, like me.

If it's a body blank it should be glued up and surfaced, ready to cut into the shape, so no need for a planer. Your best bet for using the plans you buy are to make a template out of them, or multiple templates, that way you will have them if you ever decide to make another one, plus you can keep the pickup templates you make and use them in every build you have that kind of pickup. A router is your best friend after the templates, bits with bearings are very nice for that. For cutting the shape, you can use a jigsaw if you'd like, just be careful and stay a ways away from the cutting line, then you can attach the template and a router to clean it up. You should be able to do all your contours with rasps if you're careful and take a little time. Practicing before you touch your guitar is always a good idea. An easy way I've seen to get the neck pocket perfect is to clamp the neck to the body exactly where it's going to go, you'll need a center line and whatnot. Then take three perfectly straight boards and clamp them against the sides and end of the neck, after that you can just run a bearing bit along the boards to make a perfectly sized neck pocket, you may have to mess with the corners some to get them to fit the neck, depending if it's rounded on the end or what. For the TOM you can recess it, search the boards, there's a few pictures of them, don't know about a cover though, you can probably do it, but you might have to fabricate your own. Cabinet scrapers would be something I would suggest looking into as well, they are very handy. That's all I can think of. Good luck on your project and post lots of pictures.

Edited June 3, 2008 by anderekel

[dpm99]

Thanks. You can actually buy a bridge cover directly from Fender. Availability of parts was another reason I chose this project.

[anderekel]

ok, didn't know if that would fit a TOM since you said that's what you were gonna use.

[zyonsdream]

No Neck? Standard shape?? Bolt on??

Easy as cake...and a trip to home depot.

9" Ryobi band saw (if you really wanted to get down and dirty, scrap the band saw and get a jig saw)

Ryobi router, Two router bits: Profile bit and shorter bit for cavities

Ryobi palm sander.

1 bastard file and 1 half round file

Use a 1 piece wood blank that's already been thickness planed and you are ready to build your first, second and 3rd body. ou can upgrade the tool quality by saving in the finish department. Go oil rubbed finish and save the tools required to hardcoat.

[dpm99]

ok, didn't know if that would fit a TOM since you said that's what you were gonna use.

Ah, smart. I didn't think of that. I'll have to look into that one. The bridge cover looks really cool, but I'd like to eventually add a piezo bridge, so that means a TOM, strat, or floyd bridge, at least from what I've seen. I've never played with metal before. Thanks for point that out.

No Neck? Standard shape?? Bolt on??

Easy as cake...and a trip to home depot.

9" Ryobi band saw (if you really wanted to get down and dirty, scrap the band saw and get a jig saw)

Ryobi router, Two router bits: Profile bit and shorter bit for cavities

Ryobi palm sander.

1 bastard file and 1 half round file

Use a 1 piece wood blank that's already been thickness planed and you are ready to build your first, second and 3rd body. ou can upgrade the tool quality by saving in the finish department. Go oil rubbed finish and save the tools required to hardcoat.

9" Ryobi band saw: $99 (Jigsaw: $29.99, unless my brother still has my old one)

Router: $0 (Already have one)

Bits: $40? (May have those too. I'll find out when I see my brother in July.)

Ryobi palm sander: $40 (Used to have one. My brother may have that too.)

Files: $10

So it looks like if I go the jigsaw route, I'm looking at an investment of no more than $120, and probably less. I could handle that. But won't I need a router table?

What's a hardcoat finish? When I've finished things in the past, it's involved spray cans and brushes. I've seen videos of people rubbing in finish on guitars, and assumed that was the way to go. If I'm going for a vintage look (with a nitrocellulose finish?), what's going to be best? Again, the project will eventually be a relic. Admittedly, I haven't read Hiscock's chapter on painting and finishing yet. I should probably do that soon.

Now let me throw the proverbial wrench in the works. I live in a one bedroom apartment, and my neighbors are....well....difficult. I can probably get away with using a power tool once or twice in this process if I need to, but the less noise I make, the better. So let me ask you this. Assuming I'm a patient man, what could not be done with a chisel, a bow saw, and a whole bunch of sandpaper? I even have one of those old manual drills that looks like an eggbeater that I inherited from my Grandad. This question is somewhat hypothetical, but not entirely.

As for it being "easy as cake," well sure, for you! I'm nervous about doing even this much, and if it were not for these forums, I wouldn't even be trying it.

Thanks,

Dave

Edited June 3, 2008 by dpm99

[CrazyManAndy]

I would use nitrocellulose if you're relicing or going for vintage. On the band saw v. jig saw, I'd go for a jig saw. It's a little extra work (I've done it myself with no problems), but I don't think it's a good idea to get a band saw unless you can afford one that is relatively nice, IMHO.

CMA

Edited June 3, 2008 by CrazyManAndy

[anderekel]

I'd really take a look at cabinet scrapers, they aren't very expensive and are a lot nicer to use, and quicker at that, than sand paper. You should be able to get away with not makin' a whole lot of noise, don't know how loud the bow saw is though. It'll just take a lot more time, but they say patience is a virtue. A hardcoat finish is a finish like lacquer or poly or a urethane clear, stuff that creates a hard finish. Most of them are sprayed but some you can also do with a brush, just gotta be careful. If you're gonna relic it seems like nitro lacquer is the way to go.

[ToddW]

Hi Dave,

You have a neck already, so I suggest you start by building the body. Don't bother reshaping the headstock until you see how things are going.

As to creating the body, I would NOT buy a pre-glued body blank. That's expensive! You're only talking about 4 board feet of lumber, and you can probably use shorts, pieces under 4 feet or so. They cost less per board foot. Mahogany shorts are under $5/board foot around me, so to buy two 2" thick pieces 8"x24" you need less than $25. If your wood store is like mine, they'll probalby joint the edges for you for free. With the money you save, buy a plane and a bottle of titebond. Oh, and an assortment of wet/dry sandpaper at the autostore to tune up your plane

You can make your own body blank and get a useful tool.

Then go and trace a Jazzmaster body. Transfer to your template material and rough cut that out using a jigsaw. Then perfect the template shape with rasps and sandpaper. You can use the actual neck and a few boards to make a temporary jig for the neck pocket. Might need some double sided tape and clamps, but the end fit should be good.

That's all my money saving idea at the moment, and I don't have any finishing advice for you, except: DON'T SPRAY NITRO IN YOUR APARTMENT ! ! !

Regards,

Todd

[zyonsdream]

A hand rubbed finish is fine for a first build. Living in an apartment will not be ideal for using spray finishes. I sprayed all the interior plastics in my bronco in my bed room in an apartment and it...well... it's didn't impress the peeps living in the other apartments.

As for the remark about the Ryobi bandsaw, well I used one for my first 5 builds and never had an issue (minus my purple heart build.) Although I have the big Rikon now I still have the Ryobi and still use it for smaller stuff. I like a bandsaw becuase it's a cleaner cut.

You don't need a router table to route the profile edges of a guitar. The base plate on the router should be okay to route the body from the top...unless your router requires a table.

[dpm99]

Good stuff, guys.

Definitely going to put a cabinet scraper on the list. That will be a great tool for me. Todd, I've already emailed a local lumber yard to see if they can help me. That was a great suggestion. Do you think their wood will be sub-par? If I can spend another fifty bucks, and it turns out significantly better as a result, it might be worth it to spend the money. Here's the local lumberyard I emailed:

http://www.frosthardwood.com/

Looks like whatever I might get there would be of a good quality.

A plane is just so stinking expensive! From the limited research I've done, it looks like an investment of around a hundred bucks. Not a bad investment, but I'd rather spend the money on pickups if possible. If I need a plane, I need a plane. It seems like ought to be able to get by without one for now, but I don't know.

zyonsdream, you haven't convinced me to do a hand rubbed finish. Can't I just lay down a tarp on a patch of grass and spray outside? I do live in sunny Southern California.

[jmrentis]

Frost is decent, but more pricey than some. There are a few others around I would check also, the one that seems most recommended and has better pricing is TH&H. They have a site I believe, Hardwoods and Hardware or something like that. Obviously, finding low prices is great, but I tend to check multiple places because you never know what you will come across. I've actually found a lot of nice pieces at a place called Cut and Dried in Solana Beach. nice wood, organized well, prices are a bit more than average though.

Another place that is the first place I'll check for my exotics wood is Tropical Exotic Hardwoods of Latin America which is up in Carlsbad, huge inventory of exotics, again can be pricey, but what they have is amazing and they have deals sometimes where you can get like 10 cocobolo fretboards for $50 and sales like that. Frost is worth a check also.

The one place I get a lot of my materials is Rockler in Kearny Mesa. Very helpful people, though none really do any instrument work that I know of. They have most of the supplies you'll want like tools, glues, epoxies, stains, finishes, and much more. Sign up for a membership as you can earn discounts, plus when they have sales they will email you and mail you letters letting you know whats on sale, much of the stuff is a tad pricey, so its very helpful to watch for the sales.

Those are basically all of the local places that I use, the rest is from internet sites like LMI and Stewart MacDonald, along with some parts companies like Allparts and GuitarPartsDepot as they sale their parts cheaper than the other places generally. Grizzly is another great place to find tools and guitar parts(under luthier supplies) and Los Alamos Composites if you want or need any Carbon Fiber rods.

Hopefully that will help you get started in finding what you need and not break the bank completely. There are some other places locally, but those are at least my favorites. Best of luck with everything. Jason

[ToddW]

Hi Dave,

Not to argue with Jason on pricing, but you're only buying 4 board feet or so of lumber. So don't drive too far to save 2 dollars a board foot

If the store will joint an edge for you, that'd be a big plus! For most boards I like to let them sit in the same place for a while, but if you buy one four foot board and cut it, it's pretty much gonna have the same moisture content in both halves.

Anyone see that as causing a problem for Dave if he goes that route? Jointing the wood right after he buys it? It'd certainly be less than buying a blank pre-glued up.

Todd

edit to add: You can buy a used Stanley Plane for a lot less than $100 and tune it up with a piece of plate glass and wet dry sandpaper.

Edited June 4, 2008 by ToddW

[dpm99]

Jason,

I checked out the website for Rockler. It's right by my work. They look like an awesome store, but mahogany (5-3/4'' width, 1-3/4'' thickness) is $1.43/linear foot. With a body length of almost 20", that's $57.20. Is there a trick to getting it more cheaply? That's the same price as a pre-glued body blank.

Todd, you're right about used tools. There's nothing on Craigslist now, but even ebay had some decent stuff.

Thanks guys,

Dave

[jmrentis]

Good point Todd, I completely agree, its definitely not worth driving way out of the way for the price of a single builds worth of wood, especially with gas prices where they are at. If I'm looking for a specific wood or figure, I try to start with the least expensive places and if I don't find what I want, then check the others, thankfully the cheaper places are mostly closer than the expensive ones.

Frost, TH&H, and Rockler are all in the same general area, so any of them would be a worth a look. Rockler carries wood, though I generally don't find a lot of 8/4 in the different woods, so I don't really think to check Rockler for wood, unless for laminations or the like.If you need some other supplies though, you may as well check Rockler. They used to always suggest Frost for wood, then as TH&H came up, they switched to recommending them to customers. Any of those places will more than likley have what you need, if not you know there are other places to check near by. Best of luck. J

Edit:Call and see what the TH&H charges as they might be a tad cheaper and most is surfaced on both sides with one straight edge. With Frost and TH&H close by I would call and check their prices per Board Foot. Generally though wood can be pricey, even for just one guitars worth. I think I paid just over $100 for the zebrawood and I still added a maple top on top of that. What I learned right away is that building is expensive, I would never suggest building a guitar for any other reason than the enjoyment of it. Building your own won't be cheaper than buying one generally. One time, when I was broke of course, I found a post in Craigslist of a guy getting rid of a bunch of mahogany for pretty dang cheap. I only wish I had the cash at the time. J

I just checked Frosts website, they have a PDF file of all the prices, click the link and then download the retailsellersprice list and you'll find all the prices per board foot. You can get 4 Boardfeet of Honduran Mahogany for about $55, there is also African mahogany for less, about $34 for 4 board feet. You'll have to search around to find what the comparisons between the types are, I don't really know personally. I'm sure others will know better. I think it should be fine.

Edited June 4, 2008 by jmrentis

[anderekel]

Yeah, definitely watch ebay, I got a couple good condition planes, a 9 inch and 14 inch together, for like 40 or 50 bucks, don't remember which. I gotta make sure they're flat, but otherwise they are in fine condition and will certainly be nice. Can't wait to see what ya start

[dpm99]

Jason, I can't thank you enough. Today after work I went by TH&H, and they had a beautiful piece of 8/4 African mahogany that was around 16" wide!! They won't cut for you unless it leaves them at least 6' of board, and the board was 8' long exactly. So I had them cut off 22" of it for me and I got out the door with a one piece 22 X 16 slab of mahogany for $28.55. I wasn't necessarily planning on buying wood today, but I couldn't pass that up. It's nowhere near quarter-sawn, but I figure it'll be alright for a body. I took a picture to show it off, since I'm pretty proud of my little piece of wood. In the picture, it looks like it has some cracks. That's just the lighting. The wood has no cracks. Anyway, I'm aware it's not the perfect piece of wood, or the perfect cut, but I think it will be incredible for what I'm doing. And....no jointing, no messy glue.

I also talked with my brother today, who will be sending my old jigsaw, random orbital sander, belt sander, and router by Fed Ex Ground next week. It's been a good day.

-Dave

Edited June 7, 2008 by dpm99