First Try: Body Shape

[dpm99]

Ok, by first try, I mean two versions of a first shape developed from maybe as many as fifty preliminary sketches. It's drawn to scale. One square equals one inch. What do you think? They were inspired by the Jazzmaster. Both are offset body styles. The only difference is that the first one has an extra half inch on the left horn. I've drawn in a Jazzmaster tremolo plate, but I'm considering a Bigsby as well. I also drew in the bridge and pickups.

It's supposed to be just a little bit weird looking, ala old MIJs. The idea was to design something that could have come from the sixties or seventies. I don't know if I've been successful or not, but each sketch is getting better. So what do you think? Make a template, or back to the drawing board?

Thanks for taking the time to look!

First shape (longer horn):

Second shape (shorter horn):

Thanks again,

Dave

[j. pierce]

The waist seems a bit wide, and horns seem a bit too spread out for my tastes - you're going in a nice direction, however. I just think with a little tweaking it could be a much better design.

[Xanthus]

Your 12th fret is drawn at 12", making your scale 24". Yet the bridge is drawn for 25.5"

I'm sure this is a minor detail, since it's only a sketch, but just pointing it out anyways

I agree with J. With a bit of tweaking, it could turn out to be a nice design. And you've got 14" across the width. With that and the rounded edges, it might look pretty nice as a hollowbody.

[dpm99]

The waist seems a bit wide, and horns seem a bit too spread out for my tastes - you're going in a nice direction, however. I just think with a little tweaking it could be a much better design.

I think you're right about that. I'm working making it look a little thinner.

Your 12th fret is drawn at 12", making your scale 24". Yet the bridge is drawn for 25.5"

I'm sure this is a minor detail, since it's only a sketch, but just pointing it out anyways

I agree with J. With a bit of tweaking, it could turn out to be a nice design. And you've got 14" across the width. With that and the rounded edges, it might look pretty nice as a hollowbody.

Don't mind that 12th fret. I think I just stuck it on there wrong. I've sort of drawn the bridge in there. I'm not positive how to do this precisely with a TOM yet, so I put 25.5 in the middle of the bridge. It's that thing that looks like a single coil pickup.

I think the Jazzmaster is about 14" wide, which is why I've planned kind of wide myself. I think I've fixed it by bringing in the waist to 13" and the horns to just under 11". As for making it a hollow-body, well.... That'd be cool, but I'd be nervous about doing it for my first build. Thanks for the help, guys!

[anderekel]

A hollow body wouldn't be all that difficult, all you have to do is use two pieces, the body and a top, route the hell out of the body, plan what you wanna take off though, and then when it's all set you can glue on the top. Viola, it's hollow.

[zyonsdream]

it reminds me of an Ernie Ball music man

[dpm99]

it reminds me of an Ernie Ball music man

I agree. I worked on a revision until about 12:30 last night, and now that you say so, it looks exactly like the Silhouette model (my new revision, that it). I think I'm gonna start over. Thanks for the help!

[zyonsdream]

I always liked the Music man and even sup'd up one of those OLP double necks but they always seemed so small to me and not pointy enough

[dpm99]

Ok, let's call this version 2.0. This is the one I worked on last night. Now that I compare it with the Music Man side by side, they're quite distinct. It's slightly offset, but not as much as the other one was. I've penciled in a pickguard and stuff, but that's all preliminary. What do you think of the body shape?

Here it is in a side by side comparison with the Ernie Ball Music Man Silhouette:

Sorry for the poor image quality. I don't have a scanner at home.

[zyonsdream]

the lower horn isn't the same, I can see some differences in the two.

[dpm99]

Do you think it's ready? You guys have better eyes for this than I do.

[jmrentis]

I think its pretty close, of course this is yours so what you like is the final opinion that matters. I like the shape, the one difference I might try is lowering the waist a tad on both sides. It seems a tad high up on the guitar, like there is too much bottom on it, its a tough change to make though without altering the whole look too much. I went through this whole process on my current project, I probably drew up over a 100 different tweaks on a design, the finished result was quite different than the original though still had that influence. After getting a drawing I liked, I would cut out the to-scale sized drawing on constuction paper and look at it, compare it, and feel it. Then move to the template once I knew it was what I want. I even ended up making changes after the initial template also. Again, its yours so what looks best to you is what you want, but don't settle make sure its what you want, sometimes original designs take a long time to get right. I think it's going to make for a great project when completed. J

[dpm99]

Thanks. I'll sketch it out and take a look. Since I'm doing it on graph paper, it's not that hard to make a modification like that. I sort of like the high waist, as it looks kind of acoustic. The solution may be to discard the offset waist, and just lower the left side an inch to match the right. I'll play around with it. I'm in no rush.

[dpm99]

I hope I'm not getting annoying by posting all these revisions. I took your advice, Jason. I tried lowering it on both sides, but it looked kinda messed up. However, when I just lowered one side, I got a result I liked. Here's a side by side, with yesterday's version on the right, and today's version on the left.

It looks a lot like a PRS, but the higher waist and the offset horns make it distinct. (How original can you really be with two horns over an ergonomic figure eight?) Thanks again for all the comments. I can't believe how much it's already changed from the first drawing. Every time I make a new revision, I think it's just right. Then somebody points out something I didn't see before, and after the next revision I like it a lot better. It's for that very reason I'm not really trusting myself yet. The first drawing doesn't look nearly as good to me as it did last week.

So how is this one? Better?

-Dave

[GregP]

Left one (the newer one) is looking pretty good. Some refinements in the smoothness of the lower horn, and you'll be even better. I'd like to see it a tad smaller, too, but then it's going to start looking more like other guitars again.

[dpm99]

Left one (the newer one) is looking pretty good. Some refinements in the smoothness of the lower horn, and you'll be even better. I'd like to see it a tad smaller, too, but then it's going to start looking more like other guitars again.

Thanks Greg. I see what you mean. That's an easy fix. Tomorrow I'm gonna see what it looks like when I bring down the waist another inch. As for the size, I kinda like it huge. Also, if the body shape works well, I may make a second one as a semi-hollow body, and the size will be an asset there.

[dpm99]

1. Took 3/4 of an inch off the heal

2. Copied the left waist curve, flipped it and pasted it on the right.

3. Took some weight off the right horn.

3. Rounded a few edges. There are still a few rough curves, like the left cutaway, but they're an easy fix.

What do you think? Any other suggestions, or does it look done?

[anderekel]

I like that, I say go for it.

[joshvegas]

I preferred the first sketch to be honest it wasn't perfect but i preferred the splayed horns. I don't dislike the re-sketches but i though the first one was slightly more original looking.

[dpm99]

I preferred the first sketch to be honest it wasn't perfect but i preferred the splayed horns. I don't dislike the re-sketches but i though the first one was slightly more original looking.

I totally agree about the originality. The first sketch looks like an old Kawai guitar to me. I might make that guitar too eventually. As I've gone through these revisions, the project has changed a great deal. It's not so much a 60's MIJ guitar anymore. All the same, I like it. The problem with the first drawing, I think, is that a lot of people just wouldn't get it. They'd think it looked weird because I couldn't do any better. Since I've got this very modern looking shape now, I'm just gonna run with it. I think I may still incorporate some vintage elements. Not sure yet. But for my first project, the new shape will probably win wider acceptance among my friends and audience. I think I may make one more revision. I want to see what it looks like if I extend the left horn into the waist curve just a little more. Then I'll do a side-by-side and see which I like better.

But today is my big final, so it'll have to wait.

Thanks,

Dave

[strafer]

With the newest one, it kind of seems like the horns are a bit too small compared to the lower part of the body...

[Nicko_Lps]

Well do what shape you like but have in mind:the freatboard sould have comple access,that was a mistake that i did.In a 24 fret fretboard you cannot play the 24th fret easyly..A strat is about 32cm wide at the wider part of the body,you can reduse that wide body a bit and it will make your guitar a lot more comfortable,i made mine 29,5cm and its like heaven.

I think that if you try to reduse that wider part of your guitar will result a more tight curve and will be more beautifull.

Try it and if you like Do It.

[Mickguard]

Honestly, now it looks sort of like a cross between a strat (top half) and a Les Paul (bottom), and at any rate is nowhere near what your original design was trying to be.

Which leads me to think that for one, you let these other guys push you away from your original intention. Or you didn't really have a clear idea of what you wanted.

For me, the result is just another generic strat-ish type of guitar. It's not ugly, but it's not original either. I just question whether this design needs to exist. Unless it's only so that you can feel like you're building your 'own' design.

If you really wanted the Jaguar-like style, I say go back to that. Or just build a Jaguar/Jazzmaster, that's a really nice design too.

Be nice to see somewhere here truly rethink the guitar design. If that's possible.

[dpm99]

With the newest one, it kind of seems like the horns are a bit too small compared to the lower part of the body...

Well do what shape you like but have in mind:the freatboard sould have comple access,that was a mistake that i did.In a 24 fret fretboard you cannot play the 24th fret easyly..A strat is about 32cm wide at the wider part of the body,you can reduse that wide body a bit and it will make your guitar a lot more comfortable,i made mine 29,5cm and its like heaven.

I think that if you try to reduse that wider part of your guitar will result a more tight curve and will be more beautifull.

Try it and if you like Do It.

Honestly, now it looks sort of like a cross between a strat (top half) and a Les Paul (bottom), and at any rate is nowhere near what your original design was trying to be.

Which leads me to think that for one, you let these other guys push you away from your original intention. Or you didn't really have a clear idea of what you wanted.

For me, the result is just another generic strat-ish type of guitar. It's not ugly, but it's not original either. I just question whether this design needs to exist. Unless it's only so that you can feel like you're building your 'own' design.

If you really wanted the Jaguar-like style, I say go back to that. Or just build a Jaguar/Jazzmaster, that's a really nice design too.

Be nice to see somewhere here truly rethink the guitar design. If that's possible.

Let's look at these three responses in context. The first two are pushing me more toward a strat-style body, and the third is pushing me away from it. Mickguard is right when he says I was pushed from my original design. I was also honest in saying that I prefer this one for my first build. If I'd built the Kawai-style body, and brought it into church to play, everyone would think the odd shape resulted from a lack of skill, rather than design. Also, as I said before, I know it's not entirely original. However, combining a strat and PRS isn't entirely unoriginal. I really think that trying to make a truly original guitar for my first build would be a bad idea. On the other hand, I don't want to just copy a Jazzmaster, because I'll have more satisfaction from building something of my own.

Mickguard, to say my design shouldn't even exist....that's a little harsh, don't you think? You make a good point, but I'm just trying to learn here. I really believe the best way to make a great guitar is to make ten or twenty lousy guitars and learn as you go. Are you suggesting I should throw it all away and start over, or just not post it here? I don't think you mean either, but it felt that way when I read it. Sorry if I sound emotional, but I find it more productive than flaming.

Seriously, thanks to all of you for caring enough to try to help. But I'm done with design. I only linked to this thread in the other for reference purposes. I'll design something else for my next build. This one is in construction.

-Dave

[Mickguard]

If I'd built the Kawai-style body, and brought it into church to play, everyone would think the odd shape resulted from a lack of skill, rather than design.

So much for 'judge not lest ye shall be judged,' eh?

Mickguard, to say my design shouldn't even exist....that's a little harsh, don't you think?

I didn't say it 'shouldn't' exist, I said I question whether it needed to exist. Big difference there. What's important is that you settle on a design you can live with--in other words, it up to you to answer the question for yourself, not for me or anyone else here. But if you post a design, you have to expect the some of us might not like it.

I'm not trying to be mean (not trying to be gentle either, admittedly), but I do try to remain within the limits of constructive criticism. Not really my style to flame, nor to pander.

Anyway, one thing I've learned is that, if you're not 100% committed to the project, it makes it hard to come up with the energy, patience and care to see it all the way through.