Zebrawood Top Lp

[killemall8]

any updates?

[avengers63]

I finally won a neck over the weekend. I ordered in the last of the parts as well. When they come in, I'll post some pics. I wouldn't drill anything or do the neck pocket without having the neck in-hand, so after the grain-fill, I was at a standstill.

This upcoming week and weekend will be very busy for me, but is a good way. On tap:

visitation w/ kids Tuesday night

church stuff wednesday night (maybe)

both step-kids in the half-time show of a minor league baseball double-header Saturday

Monday, maybe Wednesday, Thrusday, and Friday nights will be spent in the basement working on the bloodwood LPjr, mahogany/limba LPjr body, sapele/maple PRS body, gluing a 7-piece body blank, the zebrawood LP, about 6 picture frames, and a set of coasters.

Sunday I finally get to rest and park my butt in front of a TV and watch the NFL all day long.

Honestly, I only expect to finish the PRS & LPjr bodies and get the blank all glued up. All the rest will just be "making progress".

[killemall8]

take as many pics as you can!!!!!!!!

[avengers63]

The rest of the hardware came in yesterday. It's just sitting there - no drilling yet. The neck should come in this week. THEN we'll see some serious work being done. Between this, the bloodwood LPjr, and the two other bodies I need to finish up, I have a lot to do this weekend.

[avengers63]

ATTENTION ANY & ALL MODS!!!!!

I'm currently typing up the side-by-side review of the necks. I have 14 pictures to share in this comparison. We have a 1 pic per post rule, except for the WIP section, but 14 may be too much. LMK if it needs to be broken down into multiple posts or have some links instead of having so many pics.

Thanks

EDIT

Two hours have gone by with no instructions. The board itself won't let me post all 14 pics at once, so I'll be breaking it down.

Edited September 19, 2008 by avengers63

[avengers63]

This took me two hours to type up, so I really hope y’all appreciate it. I really love my job. Take those two statements, combine them, extrapolate the inference, and hate me for it.

The neck finally came in. As promised, I’m comparing it side-by-side with others I have: a Carvin, Danelectro, and Westone. I don’t know who the actual manufacturer of this one is, but the seller is CKO, so that’s what I’ll call it.

The CKO is brand new. The Dano came off of a damaged guitar, but was never sold or really played. I consider it new as well. The Westone and Carvin have been used for over 10 years each.

The first pic here is a lineup of all 4 necks. From the top down, we have the Dano, Westone, CKO, and Carvin.

The second one here is down the neck from the heel. Left to right is the Dano, Westone, and CKO. The Carvin is attached to the body, and I wasn’t going to unscrew it for these pics.

The third one here is down the neck of the CKO with a great view of the truss rod.

The fourth here is all three lined up on their sides, as close as I could manage. Again, top to bottom is the Dano, Westone, and CKO.

All four necks are straight, even, and flat.

Disclaimer: As you all know, I don’t do fretwork, so I don’t know what to look for from experience. All I can go on is what I feel and what affects me as a player.

The crown of the frets on the CKO are nicely rounded. They’re a vague pyramid, but with a smoothly rounded top. The Danos are a touch more flat, but not from wear. For obvious reasons, the Westone & Carvin were not examined in this way.

The bevel of the frets of all four are as smooth as you’d expect. None have any sharp edges. Of the four, the Dano had the roughest and the Carvin the smoothest. You could try to attribute this to years of playing wearing away the edges, but even the bass-side of the upper frets on the Carvin were smooth.

I “pinched” the edge of the fretboard with my thumb and middle finger and slid them up and down all four necks to feel the ends of the frets along the F/B. I was surprised at the results. I anticipated the two older used necks to be worn smooth up to about the 15th fret or so. In order of roughness, most to least, is the Westone, Dano, CKO, then Carvin. In light of the findings about the bevels, I’m just not shocked about the Carvin being the smoothest. I did NOT expect the Westone to be the roughest. I figured the years of play would have smoothed them over. HOWEVER – the CKO has a bound F/B, so perhaps the ends being hidden behind the binding helped it’s performance.

In any event, the Carvin clearly has the best fretwork. This shouldn’t come as any surprise. In my untrained opinion, the Dano had the worst, but it still wasn‘t bad. The Dano is completely playable as far as fretwork inspection goes. The edges aren’t abrasive enough to distract you or knick up your hand, they’re simply the roughest of these four. I’d call the CKO & Westone about even. The Westone’s frets feel a little bette on the edges, but considering about 20 years of wear has smoothed them down, I’d estimate that when new, it’d be about the same as the CKO.

[avengers63]

Next up is the headstock angle.

The Carvin’s neck is not scarfed. The Dano is painted black, so I can’t tell anything about it. Those two are not under consideration here.

The CKO is scarfed. It looks like the Westone is as well, but I’m not 100% on this. If it is, then they did a great job lining up the grain. There is a visible line on the back of the headstock, but it comes at a place that it might just be a crack in the finish and stained from wear. It’s suspicious to me, but I can’t confirm either way. For discussion purposes, let’s go with the Westone being scarfed.

I have the scarfs circled in the following pictures.

If the Westone IS scarfed, I wouldn’t think that would me a good place to do it. It would seem to me that right there would be the weakest place to do it – right on the angle. Also, that’s where the T/R access hole is, further weakening the joint.

As you can see, the CKO’s scarf is down between the 1st & 3rd frets. The T/R access wouldn’t weaken it at all, though it may even out with the T/R channel. I really don’t know. There is the full depth of the neck to glue, so the joint has the maximum possible gluing surface. Lastly, the F/B might add some stability to the joint.

From a pure construction standpoint, it seems to me that the CKO’s scarf is better than the Westone. I welcome any and all input from those of you who have the experience in these things.

[avengers63]

Next, let’s go to the nut.

The auction listing gave no information on what kind of material the nut is made from. Let’s assume that it’s from the cheapest possible material possible – plastic. I have no evidence to back this up, just a hunch. For all I know, it could be bone. I don’t have the expertise to tell by looks & feel.

The Westone has the bottom of a locking nut, but not the locks. An ounce of investigation told me that Westones without locking nuts had a graphite nut. That being the case, so we can compare apples to apples, let’s pretend this one would have had a graphite nut as well.

The Carvin has a graphite nut, per the specs of their bolt-on necks from their website.

The Dano has an aluminum nut. Cuz, you know… Danos are weird like that.

With all of this information in hand, the CKO is the clear loser for nut quality. That being said, replacing the nut is what, a couple of dollars? Yes, it’s a loss in the comparison, but it’s not THAT big of a deal considering how easy an issue it is to fix.

[led_guitar]

The "CKO" neck comes from guitarpartsusa. at least, cko uses the same description as them. The only difference that I can see is that the headstock has been carved already.

http://www.guitarpartsusa.com/item--Les-Pa...r-Neck--PROD472

Its an import neck that CKO sells on ebay. I quit bidding once the price went past 80, beacseshipping from guitarparts is only $6

We may have been bidding on the same neck!!

Edited September 19, 2008 by led_guitar

[avengers63]

Alright… let’s start to get specific with the CKO.

First, let’s inspect the binding.

I ran my thumbnail across the binding seams feeling for a gap or ridge between the plastic and the wood. I did this both on the F/B and on the sides. Nowhere along the entire thing could I find anything other than a baby-butt smooth transition.

Then I looked closely at the heel, and I think I found out why. Look closely at the binding as it passes over the end of the heel.

Can you see the little bit of white that’s “rounding the corner” of the heel? What I suspect happened is that the F/B & binding were put on, then the heel was shaped. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be that little bit visible underneath the end of the F/B. Does it matter? Heck no! Not to me anyway.

Whatever was done, the binding is very smooth. It covers the ends of the frets completely.

Now let’s look at the end of the heel.

You actually have a better look at the binding thing on this pic, but that’s not what I want to bring your attention to. Look at the circled bit.

The whole butt end of the heel is rough. The circled bit is a little ridge that didn’t get routed smooth. You can actually see it clearly in the pics looking up the F/B from the heel that’s in the first review post. The whole end needs a vigorous sanding to smooth it down. It has the texture of 40-grit sandpaper right now.

Also notice in all three pics of the underside of the heel that bit of the F/B that gooped over the binding. It LOOKS like it was some kind of liquid that dried there and wasn’t cleaned up.

Not pictured are a pair of SMALL pieces of black grit (1/2mm at most) that are stuck onto the bottom of the heel. These are easily scraped off, but still shouldn’t be there.

Realistically, the roughness of the butt-end of the heel, the mung on the underside of the F/B overhang, and the grit on the bottom of the heel are all in places where they won’t matter. That being said, there is no reason for them to be there, either. This is just careless lack of clean-up that REALLY separates the men from the boys. These things don’t affect the overall playability of the neck, but they would drive down the price were it sitting next to other necks in a shop somewhere.

[avengers63]

Overall, the Carvin is the best neck of the four. I don’t think that’s going to surprise anyone. The Dano is bringing up the rear. That may surprise some, but maybe not. What is a surprise to me is that I feel the CKO is about on par with the Westone.

The CKO cost me $74 shipped. Without having installed it on a guitar and played it yet, I’d say this was a great find. With a few noted exceptions, I think the quality of this neck is high enough that you could gig with it and not have any more issues that you would with a neck on any other mid-grade guitar. The nut and heel need some attention, but other than that, I don’t have any issues with it.

Here’s a couple of pics with the neck and one pup lying in place on the body.

[avengers63]

The "CKO" neck comes from guitarpartsusa. at least, cko uses the same description as them. The only difference that I can see is that the headstock has been carved already.

That the CKO neck has the headstock shaped makes me doubt they're the same one. I can't see the seller shaping * sanding the headstock of every neck he gets in.

Now, that doesn't mean the manufacturer doesn't offer them both ways. They both could very well be from the same manufacturer.

Its an import neck that CKO sells on ebay. I quit bidding once the price went past 80, beacseshipping from guitarparts is only $6

We may have been bidding on the same neck!!

There's no question that it's an import, probably Chinese. I was capping my bids at $60 for about a week before I would go higher. FWIW: My total shipped is still less that what you'd get it from that store from before the $6 shipping. AND I don't have to shape the headstock.

[killemall8]

lookin good. did you check out that site i posted with necks?

[avengers63]

lookin good. did you check out that site i posted with necks?

National Music eBay store? I think I bought a cheap-o neck from them earlier this year for about $25 shipped. The edges of the frets were a little sharp. I'm figuring to do one of two things with it: either slap it on something I really don't care about just to make it OR try out doing an inlay job on an already-fretted neck. If the inlay job goes south, oh well. At least I'll not have screwed up a "real" neck.

Right now, I'm heavily considering putting it on the Avenger prototype.

I'm suspicious about the National Music stuff in general. I know he's getting factory seconds and similar things, then parting them out. My concern is about the quality. If he can sell it so cheap, was it any good to begin with?

[killemall8]

ive never had a problem with them. i won a fretless bass one time from them for 30 bucks. i got it, and it was flawless. perfect paint job, perfect neck, electronics and hardware wernt even that cheap. and i got 2 jackson style necks with sharkfin inlays, and they are as great as genuine jackson necks. but really fat...

[avengers63]

Well, I ain't gonna do THAT again. Two hours to type, 15 minutes to take the pics, 20 to transfer and format them, and an hour inspecting the necks, and there was exactly ONE response.

Anyway, I got a lot done this weekend. The neck pocket was routed, bridge holes drilled, the depth of the cavities were corrected, and the tuners fitted & drilled. A couple more holes for the pots and the neck ferrules and it'll be ready to finish. I'll do a test fit and take pics before I start slathering on the lacquer.

[avengers63]

I have NO idea what went wrong. I measured, re-measured, then double and triple checked EVERYTHING along the way. Every last detail was based on the centerline and vertiably idiot-proofed. It would seem that I'm an exceptionally gifted idiot because the neck pocket, pup routes, and bridge positioning are nowhere in line with each other.

Here's the scoop - this is beyond my knowledge of how to fix. Even if someone explained it in graphic detail, I'm extremely frustrated with the whole thing right now, so I know I'm NOT going to mess with it anymore.

Ever.

So... if someone is able to fix the body and wants it, PM me. All I'd ask is material cost and shipping. If you want the hardware too, I'd only want what I paid for it, and shipping to your house. All together, we're probably talking about +/- $150 or so.

[dpm99]

That looks like something I'd do. I completely understand about not wanting to fix it too. Sorry for you, but if it's any consolation, it' encouraged me to know that those things happen to other people too.

-Dave

[jmrentis]

Thats too bad of a fix Avenger. I know you don't want anything to do with and I understand the feeling no doubt. All you'd really have to do is fill the neck pocket and reroute it so the neck is tilted slightly more to the left. Looking at the top of the neck the string spacing from the fretboard edge is really close, looks fine if the neck was just tilted slightly right. You could find some zebra to use here, but honestly the wood use would only show a little, any similarly colored wood would probably be fine. As I said, it would show slightly, but nothing too bad. For selling it, you'd probably not find the price you would normally because of the minor defect, but you'd get more money out of it than selling it like this I'm sure. I'm very tempted to grab it myself, but I have a lot going on right now, but again, it wouldn't be too bad to fix, just fill the pocket and reroute it. Best of luck. It is a great looking guitar! Jason

Edited October 10, 2008 by jmrentis

[Mr_Buttman]

I've made this mistake too on one of the guitar and i can propose some solutions:

1. You need to finish the guitar with dark color (for example dark blue or red) with 20-30 % opacity. And before, make the cylindrical small wood parts and put them into the holes. Of course, in detailed view this problem place will be noticeble, but not so much.

2. You can put a nice inlay there

3. You can rout rectangular 2-3 mm deep hole in that place and feel it with zebrawood veneer.

And of course, there are many other solutions. Hope you will finish it.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Mr_Buttman

[jmrentis]

That idea came to mind, but then look at the pickup routes, they would then have to be filled and rerouted along with the screw holes for those pickups, which is why I suggested doing the neck pocket over again, it would be easier and it would keep the center line of the project in place and maintain a symmetrical look. Besides being less work, I don't think it would show badly, the pocket itself isn't really out of place, its just the angle and its only off so very little, in rerouting it, it would have the smallest amount of patch showing. Anyhow, just how I saw. The stain is a good idea for helping cover the patches either way, good idea. Plus it would look cool, I'm sure. J

[avengers63]

If it's such an easy fix, wouldn't this be a GREAT opportunity for one of you experienced builders to teach we poor, foolish learners what to do? Why, you could even produce a detailed picture tutorial.

hint hint hint

Also, staining or dying is not an option. I sealed the body already during the grainfilling process.

Edited October 9, 2008 by avengers63

[jmrentis]

Trust me I went back and forth on grabbing it from you, just came up at the worst time. I just started my Bachelors and I am moving this weekend or early next week and have to pay prorated rent, deposits and everything else, not to mention buy stuff I will need for the place. If its still here when I bounce back I will pick it up from you and I'll even do an attempt at a tutorial, I even have some scraps off my body wood which is zebrawood. It actually surprises me that no one has grabbed it from you, its a great opportunity to get started on a project, especially since its got such nice woods. I wanted it for that reason and for the body shape, I'd probably use it to make a template as well. My next project was probably either a single or double cut more than likely, so it would have been cool. I'll bet it will sell soon, but if it doesn't when I can I'll grab it. J

[dpm99]

Trust me I went back and forth on grabbing it from you, just came up at the worst time. I just started my Bachelors and I am moving this weekend or early next week and have to pay prorated rent, deposits and everything else, not to mention buy stuff I will need for the place. If its still here when I bounce back I will pick it up from you and I'll even do an attempt at a tutorial, I even have some scraps off my body wood which is zebrawood. It actually surprises me that no one has grabbed it from you, its a great opportunity to get started on a project, especially since its got such nice woods. I wanted it for that reason and for the body shape, I'd probably use it to make a template as well. My next project was probably either a single or double cut more than likely, so it would have been cool. I'll bet it will sell soon, but if it doesn't when I can I'll grab it. J

Uh...you didn't mention that you have another guitar you have to finish too. And a bass.

[avengers63]

At bare minimum, this is on the back burner. I need to:

1. Finish the Avenger prototype

2. Wire the Tulip

3. Wire the jack of the Carvin kit re-paint

4. Finish the bloodwood LPjr

5. Make 2 Retrotrons and a third R/T body

6. Finish the ash PRS. All that's happened with it is the basic body shaping. The rest of the parts should all be in next week sometime.

7. Finish a couple of Christmas presents.

8. While this is happening, other bodies need to be made and auctioned.

All of this IS going to happen before I touch the zebrawood LP again. With this in mind, it's pretty likely that it'll be here getting dusty for a few months.

All that being said, if it's still here in a few months (like in 2009), maybe I'll try and fix it. But for the forseeable future, it'll be waiting for someone to give it some love.

Hey JM... wouldn't it make a GREAT Christmas present for you? By coincidence, there's a pile of all black hardware available too, as well as some Artec/GFS pups. Yea... I'm subtle.