jaycee Posted December 25, 2008 Report Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) I thought I had started a progress thread on this but it seems not, so here goes. Got a lot done on this over the last couple of weeks. All the bracing is done, and I glued the soundboard is to the body this morning I clamped the ends of the X braces down and put some weights on the middle, and that turned out very well, so I used the same with the rest of the bracing. When joining the 2 pieces of the soundboard together I clamped the SB to the workmate top, and on the other side clamped a piece of timber to the worktop then closed the bench which brought the two sides together, weighted them down and got a perfect joint. Edited December 26, 2008 by jaycee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted December 26, 2008 Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 are your braces not radiused? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted December 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 There is a slight radius, but because it's a 12 string there is hardly any chance of the top sagging so arching the top is not required Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted December 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 Heres the bracing completed and the top clamped to the body. I had some pine bed slats that I cut up and with 5 lengths of 1 metre threaded rod plus the nuts and washers cost me just over £5 and worked very well. I did a dry run as allways to see what type of problems I might face, and the main one was tightening the nuts up whilst keeping the ends sitting as square as possible until they took hold. When I did the gluing one of the clamps just wouldn't sit correctly but I got there in the end. I was literally sweating hopeing that the glue wouldn't start to set before I had "battoned down the hatches" Got a trim bit today so the next job is to route everything flush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_player Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 This is looking great. Have you considered go bar clamping systems, they are free or cheap just takes some scrap wood to make one and would probably make gluing the bracing on easier. For gluing the top and the back on the best way I have seen is Irving Sloane's mold. It has L hooks around the edges of the body on a piece of plywood and the body is built in it and for gluing the top and back on you use rubber bands going over the L hooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 i htought go bars were bendable plastic, and they seemed pretty expensive? ive only seen people use rubber bands for putting on binding? i think jaycee is showing me what a little creativty and purseverence can accomplish with those weight plates! good stuff! grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_player Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 i htought go bars were bendable plastic, and they seemed pretty expensive? ive only seen people use rubber bands for putting on binding? i think jaycee is showing me what a little creativty and purseverence can accomplish with those weight plates! good stuff! grant They can be made out of hardwood too and work fine, I'm building a go bar deck later today or tomorrow with maple go bars probably. Irving Sloane uses big rubber bands and his mold to glue the top and back. There just different ways of doing things that might be a little easier. I've been studying everything I can find on building acoustic guitars before I start my build in a week or two and there's a lot of different method of doing everything. I can't wait to see this when it's finished, I want to build a 12 string acoustic after my first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 Dude, you could sculpt those braces and scallop them a bunch more to free up that top and optimize the guitar... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted December 28, 2008 Report Share Posted December 28, 2008 I use a go bar deck and a call to glue on my backs and tops. You can make go bars out of old tent poles or just buy some fiberglass rods. very easy to use and adds a bit of fun over standard clamps.. hahaha I am with verhoevenc on the braces. That is A LOT of brace material there and might shut down the top a bit. I would have scalloped the bajeezus out of those! and your bridge plate is a whopper! Looking niiiiice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 There is a slight radius, but because it's a 12 string there is hardly any chance of the top sagging so arching the top is not required Not sure I'm understanding that thought process??????????????? Dude, you could sculpt those braces and scallop them a bunch more to free up that top and optimize the guitar... Chris +1 on this idea. MK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geo Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Dude, you could sculpt those braces and scallop them a bunch more to free up that top and optimize the guitar... Chris I thought they were thick because it's a 12-string. Looks good by the way. It's always good to see an acoustic project on here. Edited December 30, 2008 by Geo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted January 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I forgot about the bands and L hooks, I remembered thinking at the time I saw them that it looked like a good idea. I am working off plans so I don't want to deviate to much as this is my first acoustic build. I did think of scalloping the braces but one site (something like Martin or Taylor ) reccomended either not doing it or only do it a little , so I decided to leave them full. The top is now glued on and there is quite a nice tap tone to the top, and when tapped the air even managed to blow a match out. Regarding the arching of the top it said it was not needed on the plans so I went with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Arching the top creates more stability by helping to minimize the string tension forces acting on the top. Most plans do say not needed but most builders arch their backs and tops as a general rule. Even though you left the braces alone every top and the bracing material you use has its on resonance. Tap tuning the top (the process of removing wood to optimize the sound while the top is not attached) is an integral part of the creation process for an acoustic. Will skipping this step kill your sound probably not, but it may have been a better sounding guitar in the long run if you had looked into the process. I didnt even know about this on my first build and the sound was good, so you may luck out. On your next guitar this should be priority #1 to learn more about this process. If you find the sound wanting you can still shape the braces through the sound hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 When I tap the top near the neck area it is quite dead due the amount of bracing , but further down the body it does ring out very nicely, so hopefully as you say I may be fortunate with this. There is a slight arch fron top to bottom, but being my first acoustic I erred on the side of caution when the plans and other sources on information contradicted. I can allways try and take some of the bracing away if it is a little shut in, whereas putting it back on is a bit more tricky. I am enjoying the build more than I thought I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenspoke Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 When I tap the top near the neck area it is quite dead due the amount of bracing , but further down the body it does ring out very nicely, so hopefully as you say I may be fortunate with this. There is a slight arch fron top to bottom, but being my first acoustic I erred on the side of caution when the plans and other sources on information contradicted. I can always try and take some of the bracing away if it is a little shut in, whereas putting it back on is a bit more tricky. I am enjoying the build more than I thought I would Once the top is on taping it will not help from what I have been told (I may be wrong). Initially you are not looking for a note more like a sound, like tuning a drum. You also feel the top by bending to see if it is loose or stiff (hard to bend or easy). All of these techniques take time to master, or you can have have a Master teach you. I see there are books and a few videos on the subject. Best thing here is to finish it up and if you don't like the low or high end create another post and ask more experienced builders here what you can do to change the sound by modifying the braces. Most likely you will be a happy camper unless you are an experienced guitarist who is very picky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted January 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Once the top is on taping it will not help from what I have been told (I may be wrong). Initially you are not looking for a note more like a sound, like tuning a drum. You also feel the top by bending to see if it is loose or stiff (hard to bend or easy). All of these techniques take time to master, or you can have have a Master teach you. I see there are books and a few videos on the subject. Best thing here is to finish it up and if you don't line the low or high end create another post and ask more experienced builders here what you can do to change the sound by modifying the braces. Most likely you will be a happy camper unless you are an experienced guitarist who is very picky. It sounds like a science all in itself, I'll look into it more if I do another acoustic. There was a program on the BBC here in the UK last year about the history of the guitar and there was a guy from the states Henderson maybe can't remember but Clapton had to wait 10 years for a guitar from him, he got an amazing tone from his tops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted January 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 The top is glued on and trimmed. Although I did have a little tear out on the lower right bout, but I think by the time the binding and purfling goes on it will be covered up. I think what happened was I had trimmed most of the hang over off but missed a bit there and when the router bit reached it, it just flicked it off. I have also thought of another way to glue tops and backs on will post when I draw it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 I got a nice piece of birds eye Maple veneer of ebay for the headstock and along with some 6mm birds eye Maple courtesy of Wez for the heel cap. The heel cap takes a bit of getting used to regarding the colour contrast but once everything is together I think it will tie in very nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Sadly the bird eye maple had to come off. I forgot to remove 2mm from the headstock but I have another piece to go on. The rebating bit from Wealdens worked a treat. It is a 20mm cutter, the largest I have used is a 12mm so when I turned it on for a test cut the noise scared the pants off me I thought my router was going to blow up :o. Anyway once I had calmed down and worked out it's the larger bit I did a test cut on some 4 x 2 and then tentatively put the blade to the well secured body. I made sure I was allways routing "downhill" and I took a 6mm x 2mm rebate out in one pass on each section, although I did go over it a second time just to make sure. I used a hotwater bottle to heat up the walnut banding which is fairly pliable anyway and moulded it to the body on the one side, taped it up and will leave it overnight and hopefully it will still be on in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Everything was ok this morning so I glued the one side on, and will repeat the same process tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_player Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Once the top is on taping it will not help from what I have been told (I may be wrong). Initially you are not looking for a note more like a sound, like tuning a drum. You also feel the top by bending to see if it is loose or stiff (hard to bend or easy). All of these techniques take time to master, or you can have have a Master teach you. I see there are books and a few videos on the subject. Best thing here is to finish it up and if you don't line the low or high end create another post and ask more experienced builders here what you can do to change the sound by modifying the braces. Most likely you will be a happy camper unless you are an experienced guitarist who is very picky. It sounds like a science all in itself, I'll look into it more if I do another acoustic. There was a program on the BBC here in the UK last year about the history of the guitar and there was a guy from the states Henderson maybe can't remember but Clapton had to wait 10 years for a guitar from him, he got an amazing tone from his tops I just started reading the book called Clapton's Guitar, it's about Wayne Henderson and his guitars it's great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 The binding went ok. The sides dipped in at the top so by the time I scraped off the overhang on the binding it was about 1mm thick. Anyway here is the fretboard clamped and glued on. The two wooden clamps have blocks either side of the neck which keep the fretboard flush with side and stops any movement. You just fit the cauls as snug as you like then slide them up the neck until they bite. I have the rosewood block for the bridge, just have to choose my final design for it. I will try and have the 6 main strings secured the traditional way with bridge pins and the lighter ones entering the back and through the top of the bridge rather like a classical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 The fretboard came out well, so I decided to semi profile the neck. Being that a lot of guys use a rasp I decided to try it for myself. I cut a 25mm rebate across the neck at the nut end to give me the correct thickness of the neck and marked the wood with a black marker and make sure it was still there when I had finished,I then profiled the neck at the nut end and the heel with the rasp. That turned out pretty good. Time now to "join the dots " so to speak, back to more familliar tools now, the spokeshave After the spokeshave I got the scraper onto it and then sandpapered it with 120 grit "shoeshine" fashion I knew that would work well and I am well pleased with the result. I will leave the neck for a few days at least, so if any movement because of the reduced stock is going to take place it will be done before the fretboard is levelled and the frets are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAndy Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Just a quick update, I have finally got the finshed design on the bridge, it's going to have 6 strings held in by bridge pins and the other 6 will come through the rear edge like a classical. The fretboard is partially slotted it will be radiussed to 18" and I hope to put Maple roman type numerals as the fret markers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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