Super Cheap Spray System Or Rattle Cans?

[Sami Ghouri]

Helleo,

I've read somewhere that rattle can paint is gonna remain soft forever (well at least a lot of the common market types ) so i found this kit at ACE hardware, a portable compressor/gun for 250AED (around $68) and i was thinking, how bad can that be? i mean, considering the fact that i ONLY USE rattlecans for the lack of moar money to invest in spraying equipment.

thoughts? please don't throw stuff at me for such a question *dodges the first empty beer mug*

[westhemann]

I would personally go with the spray system.In the long run you save money.

[John Abbett]

I have a gravity feed spray gun from Harbor freight tools. I have a pancake compressor that came as a set with a porter cable nail gun.

It does the job for a guitar. I spray one side, let the compressor catch up for 20 seconds or so, spray the other side, etc. I'm only spraying at 35-40 psi, it keeps up pretty good. The gravity feed spray gun goes on sale for about 25 bucks, not the best on the market, but works great. It does leave orange peel, but I can't say if that's me, or the gun. It does cover the guitar well, a little sanding and it leaves a great finish.

Oh, I'm spraying Nitro.. Don't know how it works with other materials.

An expensive set would probably leave the guitar with no orange peel and more consistant coats. Again, the operator probably has a lot to do with that.

-John

[Quarter]

I picked up a little gravity fed Harbor Freight detail gun for like $10 and its actually pretty decent, certainly better than a prevail or rattle can.

A tip if you have a smaller compressor, you can plumb in one of those cheap portable air tanks to add more storage capacity to the setup.

[syxxstring]

The durability of a finish is dependent on a few things:

1. The material-

Generally, when properly applied-

A single stage or 1k(component) Lacquer is usually a physically drying material. Meaning that as solvent evaporates the surface dries and forms a film. These are the paints Detroit abandoned by the early 60's because they were high upkeep labor intensive finishes. Reintroduction of a solvent will soften them they also build slowly thus 25-30 coat lacquer jobs, you had to do it this way because you couldn't get enough material on to build a robust coating. Usually the molecules of these paints bond to each other and the paint is not chemically changed during application, leaving them more exposed to damage from solvents.(Sweat, beer, thinner, etc...)

Obviously some epoxies and polyeurethanes are 1k and slightly different.

2k or Uro's also called automotive eurethanes are a not physically drying. Reintroduction of solvent to a dried surface will not damage it unless its a very strong solvent. These paints are chemically changed after application, you take molecule A + B and get molecule C after curing. The surface is more durable due to these properties. Film build is a lot lower and you can do it in less coats. In the guitar world they get a bad name because they weren't used in the 50's and get confused with the same thick finish you find on a factory guitar. But there is no doubt there is less finish thickness with a properly applied 2k uro than lacquer.

2. Application - A paints durability can be hindered greatly by over application, poor mixing, or not following application windows and instructions. Simply you put it on wrong and it won't last.

3. Surface Prep - Removal of oils etc... A clean properly preped surface will make a huge difference in a coating lasting.

All that to say, depending on the paint coming out of your rattle can it can be just as hard or soft as paint from a gun. The application method does not change the paint itself. There are a few 2k rattle can systems out there now, I know Coast has one besides Alsa Corp's.

A cheap gun can work if you dial it in correctly but they can be much trickier to dial in. Its really about what you want and need and what sprayable finishes are available to you.

[Kenny]

ive heard good things about the harbor freight (i cant believe i just said that) HVLP vs some of the more expensive ones. for the money i think that thats a great gun to get.

but FWIW i use cans if you have the money, invest in a spray system

[Mike Herr]

I have a gravity feed spray gun from Harbor freight tools. I have a pancake compressor that came as a set with a porter cable nail gun.

That gives me hope for spraying in the near future. I have a compressor from my roofing days, but always thought you needed a big one for spraying.

Do I need a filter in there to take out the moisture/oil?

Is the one from harbor freight any good?

Some of thier stuff is decent, some isn't worth the almost nothing that it cost.

My grandpa used to say "I'm too poor to be cheap"

Ken/John, which Harbor freight guns do you have? There are a couple different ones currently sold.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Mike Herr

[John Abbett]

I buy the red throw away filters from harbor freight. They go on sale occasionally. They are all plastic and I use one per guitar. They come in two packs for about 3 bucks. They are about the size of a tennis ball and fit between your sprayer and your compressor hose.

I use a spray gun that was on sale for 20 bucks or so. It's got a white plastic top feed and a gun. I got a detail sprayer in the pack, two sprayers. I don't think it was more then 25 bucks, it had all kinds of stuff like a stand and cleaning kit, etc. I think you can get just the larger sprayer for 10 bucks or so... It is a gravity feed, I also have one with a metal jar that fits under which is a siphon feed. I don't like it as much. It's a little harder to clean. To clean the gravity feed one, you empty it, take about 1/2 of a shot glass full of laquer thinner and put in it the gravity feed cup, swirl it around and without the compressor on, pull the trigger into a waste jar. It drains right out. Easy.

-J

[Racer X]

Go paint gun if you can. Being someone who has tried both rattle cans AND the recent switch to a paint gun, I think I can honestly say I'll never go back to paint bombs. MUCH better finish, so far. I, too, bought one of those Harbor Freight Tools guns, but I bought the jam gun, and, so far, it's a pretty decent little gun. Looks just like the Stewmac one, but not certain it IS. Didn't take much time on a piece of scrap to get it dialed in and get me acclimated to it. I MAY try and get one of their gravity feeds, in the future, though, and try that. Since I'm in the clearcoat stage of my project, I may try switching to one of my larger guns that I've had sitting around, for years, and see how THAT fairs on laying down coats.

[Sami Ghouri]

thanks a load everyone! i think i will go for that portable system afterall. Later on i'll switch to a proper compressor and a proper gun i guess. But for the time being, it'll be the El Cheapo ACE gun!

[Narcissism]

I've been using a rattle can for the back side of the guitar. Its black laquer, so its going to be pretty hard when its done anyway. Its also rustolium.

For the front i'm using a brush with Minwax poly. The only time i've had bad results was on the first coat. It was cloudy and had a few bubbles. the reason why is it was 30F out. Lately, its been jumping up to 40 and 50F, and my finish has come out a lot clearer and more glass like. So in conclusion, I'm pretty happy with a brush for now, but I'd like to graduate to a spray system so i can achieve a more even finish with less runs.

[Tim37]

I have a gravity feed spray gun from Harbor freight tools. I have a pancake compressor that came as a set with a porter cable nail gun.

That gives me hope for spraying in the near future. I have a compressor from my roofing days, but always thought you needed a big one for spraying.

Do I need a filter in there to take out the moisture/oil?

Is the one from harbor freight any good?

Some of thier stuff is decent, some isn't worth the almost nothing that it cost.

My grandpa used to say "I'm too poor to be cheap"

Ken/John, which Harbor freight guns do you have? There are a couple different ones currently sold.

A friend of mine does custom paint and up until a few years ago all he ever used was one fo those guns. i have seen a lot of high end motorcycles sprayed through one of those cheap hf guns. He said the only thing was every thing had to be sanded and buffed but he has to do that now with his $500 gun.

edit btw get a decent size compressor and a good regulator it will make a world of differnece you can lay the top coat on fast (not dry lines) and will also help any transparents form being blotchy

Edited March 10, 2009 by Tim37

[westhemann]

Main difference is the quality of paint you can shoot through a gun..opens up a whole world,really...

I used preval sprayers on my exploder,and it allowed me to use a catylyzed varnish which is MUCH more durable than anything from a spraycan.

[syxxstring]

Careful with the CFM requirements of the spray gun, most little nail gun compressors won't keep up with something super efficient like and Iwata Lph-80.

The compressor will have a CFM rating on it, it will need to be probably 4 or 5 at 20 psi for most little guns, the LPH-80 is about half that.

There is a quality difference between the way a HF gun and a good Iwata, Sata, or Devilbiss will spray. The atomization is finer and you really can dial out most of the orange peal. Also the cheep guns I had always would blow a seal or mess up in the middle of a job...

For a good spray set up you need:

A compressor that will supply enough CFM. (Air) Otherwise your spray will change as air goes up and down, hello orange then grapfruit, then lemon peal on the same job.

A good regulator. It has to be a regulator not a cheater valve, or air restricting valve. (Regulators are constant preasure, the others a % of whats available)

Air filtration and drying. Even in las vegas, I have to run a dryer.

Fittings and hose that will deliver the air properly.

A gun.

[Sami Ghouri]

thanks bro! i'll probably postpone this whole thing until i get enough money (and space for the compressor, since i don't have a shop of my own yet!) and just follow these guidelines!

wonder if i can find regulators here..... this is a SUPER consumer oriented country! when ppl here found out that i "fix" guitars (not even that ibuild them yet!) most of them went OMFG you cheap b***! just buy a new one damn it!

so yeah.... i'll see whati can findeth.

[syxxstring]

If you cant find one there, Coast Airbrush will ship world wide.

But anywhere that sells a compressor should have one. They are usually labeled correctly.