2nd Build - Single Cut Junior

[mannym]

That is the crudest looking radius block I've ever seen, but if it works I got to try to make one.

It works a treat. It actually looks worse than it is because its a laminated strip I used for the block.

The Merbau Im using for the Fret board is rock hard so its taking me some time to sand the correct thickness, but I reckon after I go through the grades it should look pretty good. Hopefully I can post some profile photos later today. The radius is spot on.

Cheers

Manny

Edited October 12, 2010 by mannym

[mannym]

The 80 Grit finally did its job and down to 240 now and the fretboard is starting to shine up a little. Happy with the radius. The scrap-o-jig did well. LOL.

By the time the 1200 hits it, should be beaming nicely.

Cheers

Manny

[mannym]

Had some time this evening to carry on with the fretboard sanding and followed my system of going through the grades - 120, 150, 240, 320, 400, 600, 800 ans 1200.

Im happy with the results and the colour and patterns have popped out nicely.

Lighting not too good in my shed, but here's a shot that shows the mirror-like finish.

Im warming to the detail and colours.

I think Ive done my best with this one.

Cheers

Manny

[orgmorg]

i think you mean orgmorg; although he wouldnt carve the body with it, he'd probbly turn it into a tremelo or something!

Actually, I think Bill Jehle has used silverware on some of his cigar box builds.

[mannym]

I love Juniors. There's something about the simplicity of that single P-90 that appeals to me. It does one thing and it does it very well.

True story: an LPJR was my first from scratch build but I was using a Les Paul plan, so I put a neck angle on it . It still works though.

Keep up the good work man!

IPA,

Ive read a fair bit about people's experiences with juniors and havent set the neck until I get the angle thing 100% correct. Ive read a wide variety of opinions, which quote angles from 1-4 degrees.

To me with a wrap around bridge and set height Dog Ear cover it spells flat neck no angle. But I dont want a 50 foot action either. I found an intersting Vintage Guitar article (http://www.vguitar.com/features/brands/details.asp?AID=2619) which talks about a 1953 prototype with no neck angle but a strange neck joint to compensate. It also mentions thicker fret board. and thats what clinces it for me...this neck has a thicker than usual fret board and I think it will help I set teh neck flat and have a decnt action.

Im interested to hear other opinions.

Cheers

Manny

Edited October 19, 2010 by mannym

[Mr Natural]

Manny-

There was a vintage les paul JR at the local Guitar Center here in Atlanta a couple years back (for the low low price of $25,000)-anyway- I noticed on that guitar there appeared to be no neck angle. While I cant swear that there wasnt at least a small angle- the neck was way above the body of the guitar. They also had a vintage Les Paul Special TV model- and that definetely had a neck angle. The neck was no where near as "protuded" above the body as on the JR, and you could see that there was an angle introduced on that one.

This is similiar to some of the gibson flying Vs. The 1971 medialion Vs have a neck that is raised above the body by 3/8". Those Vs- and even the later 75' models didnt seem to have a neck angle- keeping in mind that they have a TOM type bridge- and I am not sure if those bridges are the same height as the wrap around on the JR. That bridge height is key. you can either raise the neck above the body join, or introduce an angle to keep the action in check when dealing with a bridge that is taller than say a fender type bridge. Raising the neck up definetely gives a "different feel"- I noticed this at a guitar show where I played a 67V and then a 71 medialion. The neck immediately jumps out at you- especially on the upper frets. Just my 2 cents.

Scott

[WezV]

you are going to have to draw it out from the side to see what will work for you.

the 1960 Doublecut i have here has the fretboard quite near the body and a noticeable angle i would guess as being close to 3 or 4 degrees.

[mannym]

I think its all possible at this stage, so Im going to do as Wez suggested. I'm waiting for the Dog Ear cover to arrive, ill then measure the bridge, over the pup and figure out how "flat" the neck can lie. The Fretboard is a smidgen over the quarter inch thickness (about 7 mm). A little bit thicker but I like the feel, and ill assess after i carve the neck. I may want to sand the fb down. I like my necks a little on the chunky size - Im aiming for a post carve neck thickness of about an inch and a couple of 16ths (say 25-28mm) - a smidgen over a typical neck thickness.

I guess my point is prep the neck, prep the nut, measure all with pup and bridge heights and take it from there. I can see a very minimal angle possibly 1-2 degrees. I guess the neck pocket depth will also come into play.

Thanks for the feedback Mr Natural and WezV. Much appreciated and respect to you.

Cheers

Manny

Edited October 19, 2010 by mannym

[Johnny Foreigner]

for what it's worth, the Gibson site has a 360 degree view of the current SC jr and there's a very very distinct neck angle. Deffo in the 3 to 4 degree range.

[mannym]

for what it's worth, the Gibson site has a 360 degree view of the current SC jr and there's a very very distinct neck angle. Deffo in the 3 to 4 degree range.

cheers johnny. I also found handy neck angle calculator.

[mannym]

Grinder Ready.

Sanding disc ready.

I marked the facets on the edge of the neck and started sanding off with the grinder.

Marked an area about 8mm wide in the centre thats off limits due to teh truss rod being there.

Continued with a few more passes.

And finally got the desired thickness and profile.

I like my necks a little chunkier than usual. This ones 26mm thick at Fret1, 27 at fret 12 and 28 at fret 16 where it joins the body.

Worked through the grades from 80 to 320 grit.

And the neck is pretty much done and ready for finer sanding/polishing.

Next the dreaded fret, and prep the tenon.

Cheers

Manny

[mannym]

Well thats a relief. Finished the frets and my second build effort was much better than my first. Planned a bit better and took my time.

First I made a little jig to help with filing the ends with a bit of consistency. Set the circular saw at 45 degrees and about 10 mm deep and cut a channel into some pine that the file slotted directly into.

I cut the slots a little wider than the fret tang so teh frets fit snug but can be easily removed. I bend and hammer each fret in with a rubber mallet. Ensured each fret sat perfectly flat on the board, then removed fret and applied super glue into fret slot. Reseated fret and tapped back down. Did 6 or so at a time then clamped down with 12" radius block and left for a couple fo hours for super glue to set properly.

All that was left was to run the filing jig along the board. I checked the fret heights/levels one by one with a short straight edge, and found 2 frets slightly bumpier than the rest. Too to them with the 240 and finished up with 800 grit, now they are perfectly level. For a task I absolutely hated on the first build, I have learnt a lot and actually enjoyed the task this time, the result helped.

Cheers

Manny

Edited October 31, 2010 by mannym

[RestorationAD]

IMHO I would say that 45 degrees is too much of an angle for fret bevel. I think 35 degrees is pretty standard. I myself use about 25 degrees. I find that anything more reduced the fret area too much for nice wide spacings...

[mannym]

IMHO I would say that 45 degrees is too much of an angle for fret bevel. I think 35 degrees is pretty standard. I myself use about 25 degrees. I find that anything more reduced the fret area too much for nice wide spacings...

Yep I get what you're saying. 25-30 is definitely the most common range and 45 degrees is the max angle you'd probably consider. The Frets i used aren't too "Jumbo" and are reasonably fine, and the angle doesn't take too much away from them.

Thanks for your feedback RAD. I appreciate it.

Cheers

Manny

[mannym]

Progressing a little slower than id like as i wait for P-90 dog ear cover to arrive from Stewmac. Does anyone know how long their standard air freight takes to arrive in Sydney, Australia?

Ill need to receive the pup cover so i can check and set intended bridge height, to calculate the neck angle required (as per this calculator: Neck Angle Calculator - The Tundra Man Workshop). Ive estimated around the 2 degree mar, but we'll see.

In the meantime, I cut and carved the heel.

Ill route the neck cavity next. The neck cavity will be flat and the required angle will be cut into the neck heel before gluing up.

Cheers

Manny

Edited November 2, 2010 by mannym

[mannym]

Tonight I lined up the neck and marked out the neck cavity.

Drilled some holes.

Chiselled a bit.

Chiselled some more and tidied up with the router.

And test fitted neck.

So far so good. Just waitiing on some parts as I explained earlier to measure all up and calc the neck angle.

Cheers

Manny

Edited November 3, 2010 by mannym

[mannym]

Bits coming together. Fitted Bridge and Pup today and ready for calculating and setting neck angle before glue up.

Drilled some holes.

Routed clean.

And test fitted bridge pup and cover.

The bridge has staggered string "saddles" sort of pre-compensated, so the bridge mounting pins can pretty much be installed straight with minimal offset. Teh vintage wrap around bridges needed to be set 1/16 inch and 1/8 inch on the base side behind the scale line, to allow compensation. I can adjust minimally using the Allen key screws you can see.

Height at top of bridge = 12mm

Height at top of fret board where joining neck including fret = 8mm

Whiz bang angle calculator says: 1 Degree neck angle required.

The thicker fret board made a difference, another millimeter and it could have been a flat set neck.

Cheers

Manny

[mannym]

Next steps are done.

Drilled pup cable channel through to control cavity and drilled jack access.

Applied 1 degree angle to tenon and test fitted OK.

Opinions please - Should I stain the neck before or after gluing to body? Is it preferable to stain and burst the body without the neck attached? Does it matter?

[Stewey]

Looking good mate, did you decide what to use for the pick guard yet?

With the finishing, I have done it both ways. If I want a completely different finish on the neck than the body I will finish them separately. This is only convenient though if your neck to body join has a definite transition.

99% of the time I end up doing the finishing last.

With the type of neck join you are using I would be performing the finish last, especially on the body. I wouldn't want to have the body finished and then find out you need to tweak the top of the neck tenon a little bit once it was attached, etc.

[mannym]

Looking good mate, did you decide what to use for the pick guard yet?

With the finishing, I have done it both ways. If I want a completely different finish on the neck than the body I will finish them separately. This is only convenient though if your neck to body join has a definite transition.

99% of the time I end up doing the finishing last.

With the type of neck join you are using I would be performing the finish last, especially on the body. I wouldn't want to have the body finished and then find out you need to tweak the top of the neck tenon a little bit once it was attached, etc.

Cheers Stewey. Thanks for the advice. Makes sense. And youve given me an idea.

The pickguard.....yep. Ill be cutting up some some black plastic office paper intrays. 2 mm thick.

Cheers

Manny

Edited November 11, 2010 by mannym

[mannym]

A bit of recent progress.

I managed to round over the edges of the body.

An finally set the neck and glued.

Whilst that sets im going to experiment with stains and effects on some scraps.

Cheers

Manny

[mannym]

The neck set pretty well and Im happy with the join, the angle and the levels.

Grabbed some 2 mm BBQ skewers, drilled some holes and did this:

Ended up sanding and getting this:

Cheers

Manny

[mannym]

The neck and body have been sanded up to 600 grit.

I went to Bunnings and bought some materials to start testing finishes.

I was disappointed to find out that my local Bunnings had removed Minwax products including Wipe on poly from the shelf. They did introduce a new spray can range of polyurethanes and the can I purchased was the British Paints Poly. I thought if Im going to dabble in spraing a burst on this build, then I may as well learn to spray the top coats as well.

For colour, I chose a stain from the Wattyl range (in a small metalic red can) in - Rosewood. Fossil Fuel based not Water.

A small 30ml container of Black.

I also bought a small can of the stain thinners to experiment with tones.

Now, bare with me Im still learning about these finishing techniques so there's a good chance I may be doing something wrong, so yell out of you read something weird or if you can suggest anything constructive.

First I wanted to test the finish on the neck, so I grabbed a scrap from the neck build and applied a conservative but even coat of black. I immediately wiped away the excess as I didnt want the neck test piece to be too dark. The grain popped slightly after about 2 minutes and I sanded off with 320 grit.So far so good. Seems I did learn something from what I am reading about staining and finishing. The sanding cleaned up the black leaving only a little black in and higlighting the grain figure. After a few moments of drying I applied an even coat of the Rosewood stain. The finish was a little dark for mine, so i thinned by 20% and got the following result which is almost acceptable - Keep in mind the poly over the top will darken the colouring slightly.

For the body I tried a full strenght application of Rosewood stain with no black pigmentation. The Blue gum body is finer grained and darker than the Meranti Neck, so I may decide to go a little lighter as the poly definitely locked in and enriched the colour and its probably a little too dark for the finish Im after.

The pictures dont show it but Ive also shot (from a can) a black enamel test burst.

Ive applied 2 coats of poly 8 hours apart as per the instructions. The first sealed the colour in and was mainly absorbed by the grain. The second went on a little rough, but after wet sanding and leveling with 600grit, the third shot on a little smoother. i figure the wet sand in between coats will even the buildup and the 4th coat seems to be more even than the previous so I think Im doing the right thing.

After 48 hours the important things to note are:

A) No colour variation through leeching or adverse reaction between stain, black enamel and poly.

Light wet sanding to level between coats does wonders for the next top coat application.

More later,

Manny

[mannym]

The time has come to start coloring in this thing.

Firstly I applied one coat at 70% onto the front of the body and the sides to get a feel for how it settles and dries. A light sand and I have the base for the lightest part of the burst. The idea is to apply a heavier second coat working more in away from the centre and finishing with black over the edges to complete the burst.

First coat sample:

The grain has popped up nicely, and although fine, you can see the "herring bone" type of pattern.

I thought Id start on the neck next, as this will be trickiest to get the result Im after. Firstly, the front of the headstock will be your average black gloss finish. On the back im going to attempt a neck burst as well.

Firstly a coat of the black stain, to pop the grain. As teh neck is lighter than the body Ive gone 100% strength with a medium application and more on the back of the headstock and base of the neck where the burst will transition.

Next a light sand to lighten the middle of the neck and even settle the grain on the ends.

You can see the grain has been accentuated pretty well.

Time for some colour.

I started with a 70% coat to test the finish on this lighter timber with the black base coat.

Yep. Confirmed again my thoughts. One more coat at full strength should do it.

Bingo. Thats the shade Im after. Keeping in mind the poly will lock that in and darken it ever so slightly. Thats it for tonight. Slow and steady as Im learning.

Cheers

Manny

[mannym]

OK....I am bursting to get this done!

I drew out the profile of the burst on paper, cut out and set up over the Les Paul Template I had for a test attempt at a black burst.

Test run looked OK so I prepped over the real thing and off I went.

Managed to finish a couple of passes across the front and the edges of the body and allowed to settle for a minute.

After initial drying after a couple of moments, I hung her up and checked for runs and the overall finish. Glad to say finish was OK, and I think the result of the burst will be to my liking.

Tomorrow we tackle the back and transition to neck. Then we can start thinking about clear coating this thing.

Cheers

Manny