sexybeast Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Here's a weird one. Does anyone see any obvious problems with using stainless steel rod material as fretwire on a flat fingerboard? I thought I might be able to just glue the rods into grooves and use them that way. I'm tossing around the idea, but I don't want to miss anything terribly wrong before I get into it and waste wood and money. Thanks, blokes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdogg Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I've seen it done before. Found a website with a gentlemen who builds multiscales...(of course i can never find this stuff twice....) he prefer's LARGE fretwire and a flat fretboard... soo large in fact that he couldnt find any to suit his needs... so he claimed to use stainless rod of some sort.... not sure exactly how he did it tho.... I've also read that parker glues their frets to the fretboard without a tang... im assuming they use wire with a half round profile tho.... either way.. it deffinatly could be done.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElRay Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Found a website with a gentlemen who builds multiscales...(of course i can never find this stuff twice....) Todd Keehn: www.tkinstruments.com Yes, he uses 5/32" stainless steel rod for frets. He says it's not for folks that need to feel wood under their fingers. He also says it's also really great for bends & vibrato. I've been very tempted to go this route. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted June 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Thanks guys, it seems plausible. I saw TK instruments a while back and forgot about the site. Do you think he got half round stock? Otherwise, anyone got a good idea about suppliers? Or better yet, good ideas on stuff that I could use to salvage the d=rods from, like dish drainers or something. Stainless holds up well, so salvaging is a pretty good option for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billm90 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 I refretted a classical guitar with a couple clothes hangers when I was young and poor. I thought the whole scale was off, so I compensated and refretted it. It was only the bridge that was off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Not unfeasible. Mechanical retention of the rod would be the only problem I guess. Thin epoxy and keying the underside of the rod sounds a must. Perhaps this opens up all kinds of alternative wire options. Tungsten would be amusing to try levelling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I think epoxy is the way to go as well. As far as fret slots go, I was thinking of making a high that lets me drill across the fretboard so that only half the bit goes through, leaving a perfectly shaped groove. Any better ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 I suppose it would be feasible to take a couple of grinding discs and mount them onto an arbor with a bearing to provide a depth stops. Shaping the grinding discs to leave a hemispherical groove might be a pain. This is probably not a very practical method, but it illustrates my thinking on this if I were to attempt such a strange exercise :-) The reason I thought of this method is because I figured that a radial overarm saw with depth stop discs mounted either side of the fret slotting blade would create fret slots conforming to the surface of the fingerboard. Make of these ideas what you will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Food for thought. Maybe some sort of dremel based solution? Router base and guides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Maybe a dremel router base a great guides? With the right bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted June 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Stupid auto Complete! A base and guides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Accuracy would be problematic, especially with an arbor running parallel with the board. I've not really though much about this other than the radial overarm idea for standard slotting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Did my research and bought the rods. Can anyone help out with suggestions for glue? There's a lot of info out there, but I figure guitar builders would have the most pertinent advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Steel to wood is a mechanical bond. Roughen (key) the mating face of the steel and use epoxy or CA. I would plump for epoxy on the basis that CA can prove brittle. I did have a fair amount of "rubberised" black CA for use in equine hoof repair (hoovery?!) which maintained a degree of plasticity after curing, however epoxy is probably your best bet. Maybe scoring grooves in the underside of the cylinder will be the best mechanical keying technique. Test on scrap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted July 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Scoring sounds like a good idea. I just have to do it so that I don't mis-shape the rod. Maybe a scoring with a file? I started this build about five years ago, but had twins in the meantime. Now I have a little time again. I'll post pictures soon. It's no high end beauty, but it's my first build so it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Have a look at the Chapman Stick. I think that they use stainless steel rods as frets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I forgot the Chapman Stick. If I recall correctly, aren't they some kind of cross between the old Fender "side loaded" frets and mostly pyramid shaped wire as opposed to cylindrical rod? Certainly cause for thought in terms of any fretjobs required on them! Stainless sounds like a sensible idea to reduce wear, as I'm sure that replacing frets would be both an expensive specialist job or one you would return the instrument back to Chapman for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workingman Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just a note, older guitars were all fretted with bar stock before the modern fret wire was invented. I think Martin used it into the 1920's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Here's a link to a few pictures. Sadly only the body, but these are older. I'll put up progress pictures soon. The neck is still marked out on a plank of Maple. My First Build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Have you done much fretwork before? I wouldn't go overcomplicating your first builds with ideas like these. Overexperimentation and overextension can easily ruin your otherwise satisfactory first babies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted July 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 I fretted the first neck I made for this, but I never got to use it. It wasn't as scary as people made it out to be. I'm kinda thinkin' that with a flat fretboard and straight rods, it may not be too hard. Of course I could meet disaster, but I'm adventurous. Either way, I appreciate your advice. You think the frets are adventurous, I'm seriously contemplating designing and building my own bridge. Seriously. I have it all planned out in my head and the hardware is not too hard to find. I'll probably just buy one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntinDoug Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I think epoxy is the way to go as well. As far as fret slots go, I was thinking of making a high that lets me drill across the fretboard so that only half the bit goes through, leaving a perfectly shaped groove. Any better ideas? A drill bit would flex, or walk. A ball nose end mill in a small bridgeport style mill would work well to make the slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 How about that overhead Grizzly fret radiusing swingarm combined with a Dremel or router slot cutter underneath the table? A little cheaper than a CNC :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexybeast Posted July 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I thought about the dremel as well? I think that's the way I'm going to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hmm. As Doug mentioned though, they are likely to try and walk out of the cut or at least wander during it. It would be wise to cut fret slots as per normal, bevel them heavily with a square file at 45° and finish with a Dremel. What you suggested - cutting the trench with the side of a drill - will not work due to the reasons mentioned, plus drills are not capable of cutting on their edges; the cutting edges are very small and on the lip. Pressing the edge of a drill onto any surface will cause a big nightmare. By all means try it on scrap (safely) to learn what happens and why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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