sdshirtman Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Thanks for the responces. DemonX: Deft is store bought lacquer from lowes or home depot. I pulled the rule of threes from the reranch site. My guess after some more research and reading through the responces is that it went on too thick, to quick. I didnt think I did but the results are telling. I'm now in the process of wetsanding to try and level these down. I did the brown one Friday and the bad spots are pretty deep. Since I'm posting the whole build mistakes and all I can tell you guys that I did actually sand through in a few spots. I'm going to try and repair those spots and try the pinhole drop fill fix for round two and sand the back and sides off. If I cant fix it like that I'm going to probably sand the back and sides down. I'm getting ready to wetsand the blue one this afternoon to let it "breathe". I'll post some pics when finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 No pics yet but I got the blue one sanded Sunday. Shrink back is deep enough to where I think I'll be forced to shoot a few more coats on the back on both to level them out. Now that they are broken open and the surface skin is breathing a bit I'll let them sit for another 2 weeks or so and have another look. What i dont want to do is seal em back up with more top coats and hinder the curing process any more than it is already. So when they are ready they will get a few more coats and then sit for another two to four weeks. So I guess these wont been assembled for at least another 5 weeks. Un believable. As I was sanding these I came to the conclusion that the grain filling process is the culprit. Reason being is that the maple tops are just fine. I cant remember if I saw it here or another site but I've been reading about a thousand year old process of grain filling with egg whites. You sort of wet sand the bare wood into a slurry using the egg whites then sand back when dry. I'm going to do a few experiments on some scrap mahogany here in the next few weeks and I'll start a thread on it to show my results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestvic Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 wow interesting.. egg whites? i definitely want to see those results after you are done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted July 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 OK I finally got around to to talking some pics of the first sanding. Here is the back done with 1000 grit. I didnt bother with lower grits. If you use a decent quality 1000 grit paper it cuts just fine and eliminates the need to sand out scratches from lower grits IMHO. I still have lots of low spots. I'm uncomfortable going any further. Even with finer grits. I got a ton of the solvent pops out but there are still a few shallow ones left. I went a little too far on this edge and burnt through. This is after a few sessions with some spot dying. Heres the worst of the shrinking right around the edges of the neck pocket. I'm dangerously close to burning through here to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Spray some Deft into the lid and then drop fill the pops. Make sure they are clear of dust of course. It might just be a better idea to level, let it cure and then recoat. Drop filling could leave witness lines if they are not burning into the previous layer if I recall. Sorry, I'm at my limits here. You've got a plethora of experience rooting for you on these builds, so just chalk it up to one of those things. They'll be fine, it's just a little time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've never had any witness line issues drop filling nitro. You might consider getting a can of Deft for spraying / brushing and drop fill with that. You can use an artists brush to beef up the thin areas....you are going to be leveling some more anyway. I've been doing a bit of that myself in a couple of spots on my build. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Yeah, I know that dropfilling nitro remelts the layers underneath but I don't think Deft is Nitro....or is it? Don't have it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted July 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Thanks for the responses (always). The current plan is to shoot a few more coats to fill. It shouldn't take too many more coats I hope. Maybe two? I was thinking of masking around the neck pocket and back where the burn through is to beef it up there, then shoot the final fill coats. I think thats going to be more pragmatic then trying to drop fill every low spot on this thing. Its been a week since sanding and it doesn't seem to be shrinking much more but I'm going to wait at least another week. The backs only smell if I put my nose right next to it. The fronts still smell a little though. As far as Deft being nitro. I've read a lot info and threads debating the point and the consensus I get is that it is. Here is a shot of the ingredients. Second line. "Cellulose Nitrate" I dont know what the numbers mean. I am curious as to whats the correct way to beef up the two points I was referring to. Should I mask it off and wind up with a small ridge where the tape line was and blend it in while wet sanding? Or just hit that part a few times without masking, let it dry, then clear the entire thing? I'm thinking because of the properties of nitro it wouldn't really matter. Any hazy or powdery overspray would just melt in during the final fill coats right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 Yeah it's nitro. It's sold as a wood finish in big home repair stores like Lowe's and Home Depot over here. It's doesn't have the musical instrument tag that makes brands like Behlens more glamorous. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 13, 2012 Report Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'd hit it without masking and then reclear the whole thing. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Like Scott mentions, just paint over the areas that need coverage like spot painting to build up the area, then shoot a few coats over the entire guitar and level sand again and repeat if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 OK heres some redundant pics. I shot a few touch up coats around the neck pocket and the area where I burned through. Then I shot two coats across the whole back of both. On the brown one I took an extra step and drop filled the back where I has some problems then reshot one last coat. I'm hoping this does the trick. I'm going to taking a vacation first week in August. When I get back I'm hoping to be able to finally start finishing these up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Your patience is legend. I'm pretty sure I would not be able to exhibit as much as you have. Then again maybe you've pulled out all your hair by now. We'd never know. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 This contains pretty much every deleterious high end hydrocarbon and noxious organic compound known. They attempt to offset this by saying that the container has a reasonable percentage of recycled steel. The warning at the bottom is putting it mildly to say the least. Your patience with this build will be a zen moment. Savour it, but not yet. Really liking the look of the gloss on the inside of the cutaways. The rest will be a snap if you got that right and it certainly looks that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 This contains pretty much every deleterious high end hydrocarbon and noxious organic compound known. They attempt to offset this by saying that the container has a reasonable percentage of recycled steel. The warning at the bottom is putting it mildly to say the least. Your patience with this build will be a zen moment. Savour it, but not yet. Really liking the look of the gloss on the inside of the cutaways. The rest will be a snap if you got that right and it certainly looks that way. I cant pronounce most of them but I think half the ingredients on that can have probably contributed to my patience on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Typing from on the floor? Might as well have a few beers since you are already there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) I just got done browsing through some of my earlier post and realized its been a year since I started this as of yesterday. How time flies. After a long long wait I decided its time to wet sand one of these. I'm starting with the blue one first then in a few weeks, I'll finish the tobacco one. The neck got the treatment first. There was a lot I didn't photograph because I was into what I was doing and posting some of it would be redundant on this forum as its been seen before. Before I got to the wet sanding I scraped the tape line on the edge of the neck smooth and rolled the board just a tad with a razor blade. Once that was done I started sanding with Japanese 1500 grit paper. I dont really see the need to step through all the lower grits when good quality wet sandpaper will cut just fine and eliminates any lower grit scratches from the get go. This picture didnt come out great but I posted it to show how I plugged the tuner holes during the wet sanding to keep anything from swelling. Its just plain old silly putty. It works great and seals out all the water. When your finished it comes right out without leaving any residue. After the 1500 grit I moved up to 2k grit then buffed. This really started to shine once I used the final glaze. Once that was done I made me a nut. I have to say that my investment in the new nut slot files and string spacing ruler made this job MUCH easier than not having them. I had some pretty good progress this weekend and have more pics to post but its getting late and I'm tired as hell so I'm going to bed. Consider this a poor attempt at a teaser. I'll have more pics up soon. Thanks for looking. Edited August 20, 2012 by sdshirtman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Sweet looking polish job John. What slot files did you end up getting....and what is that material you're making the nut out of? It almost looks like graphite. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdshirtman Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Sweet looking polish job John. What slot files did you end up getting....and what is that material you're making the nut out of? It almost looks like graphite. SR Hey Scott, I got the stewmac gauged files. Its funny to lay out that much cash for tools that you use for 10 min. but fully worth it imho. They should last me a lifetime. The nut is tusq. Its just in a raw block form in this pic. I do have some more pics and I'm a bit more refreshed than I was last night. If you look back at my thread around post 165ish you can see that ugly brushed aluminum electrosocket jack from SM. It had to be polished to match the rest of the hardware. This was a major PITA. It took far too long and I just cant figure out why they dont offer them in chrome or nickel. I ended up doing them with a dremel tool and some rubbing compound followed by a hand polish with the same compound and glaze I used for the finish. In addition to this I polished the pup rings and the truss cover which I did by hand with 2k paper and a microfiber cloth and some compound. They came out nifty and I think the inordinate amount of time it took making and polishing these was well worth it. Next task was opening up the ferule holes on the back because I didnt mask them off. I just used a sharp exacto to cut away the excess lacquer then wrapped some 320 grit sticky back paper around a socket to sand till they fit again. Here comes the biggest lesson I've learned about building/finishing guitars thus far. Stay the hell away from Deft!! After ample curing time the finish is still softer than I'l like. I checked out my first build and did the fingernail test to it and I can still leave an impression after almost two years. I had to make a decision on is I should strip this back to bare wood and refinish of just say f#$k it. I'm choosing the latter and maybe someday I'll get around to refinishing them. The soon to be owner of the blue one has been informed of this "flaw" and is ok with it considering he's getting this for the price of materials. If the situation were different and I was intending to sell this to joe blow off the street I would have stripped and refinished with a more durable finish. One of the problems this is presenting is that if I buff this while sitting on a cloth its leaving a faint impression of the fibers in the finish. I'm trying to get around this by buffing this while the guitar is suspended. I really dont know whats going to happen once I start sitting this thing on a bench or stand. Time will tell because I'm running out of patience. That being said we go onward. This is the pre buffing stage with 2k paper. And here it is after buffing. I used those cool little drill buffing pads from Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/3-inch-mini-buffing-accessory-kit-95394.html They work great and are small enough to let me get into tight places. The fact that I can vary the speed of my drill is a cool bonus. Heres my obligatory reflection pic. And the finished back. I also shielded the control cavity with copper tape. I'll leave you with the finished front. The colors are off a bit though. The mix of three 100 watt incandescent bulbs mixed with the fluorescent garage bulbs and the ambient natural light was playing havoc with my camera. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levi79 Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Wow, that looks incredible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Despite the issues with Deft, I think you are reaping the benefits of your patient approach on these. That silly putty idea is typical Luther genius. My hat is off to you, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Love that blue, like PRS "Faded Jean" finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 One of the problems this is presenting is that if I buff this while sitting on a cloth its leaving a faint impression of the fibers in the finish. I'm trying to get around this by buffing this while the guitar is suspended. I really dont know whats going to happen once I start sitting this thing on a bench or stand. Time will tell because I'm running out of patience. My very first build was finished with rattle can acrylic lacquer sold in auto parts stores....Duplo, I beleive. I don't know if it was the "acrylic" or the fact that it was intended to be sprayed onto automotive paint, but it exhibited the same symptoms your deft does. Guitar stands left marks. My teeshirts left impressions just from playing. It's been four years now and that is still happening. Like yours it polished up great, but never got rock hard. Your deft is nitro, so it may ultimately get as hard as it should....let's hope so. Sorry about that downer....the build looks stunning! And your attention to detail should serve as an example to us all. RAD once told me that the details are what set a luthier apart from a backyard builder......even if he builds in his backyard. Very well done. I'm looking forward to your next creation. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 usualy you get those soft finish problems if it has not cured properly yet. Id say Let it sit for a while to see if it will harden up, but your comment about your other build has me wondering about if it would make any difference. Has anybody else had this problem with this finish ? maby there is someone on here who can advise on a cure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 I don't suppose UV or other accelerating method will work with this unless it was designed to, will it? UV will no doubt bleach sensitive parts also. I am just thinking that the solvents may be suspended with no way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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