New Neck Joint ( Version 2 )

[Our Souls inc.]

O.K. .... back when I was building this:

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=44857&st=15

I was working on the energy that is contained in the string tension.

It warps necks, causes us to screw or glue our builds together, or go with a neck through.

I wanted to utilize the tension to my advantage, so I came up with a few working versions of screw-less yet removeable necks and this is version 2 :

Here you can see the cavity between the pups and the side view of how the neck heel looks.

and there is a shot from the back.

....and here's the money-shot, broken down like a 12 gauge.

..........

Thats what it looks like once its settled into the pocket

and there's the back.

The string tension pulls the neck into place and holds it there.

any thoughts ??

[dpm99]

A very practical solution, and I'm anxious to hear how it sounds. If you did one of these on a bass, you could cover the spot between the pickups with a ramp. My concern would be that the joint could get wobbly over the years though. Do you think that's a possibility?

[sdshirtman]

I like new concepts in design like that.

I would think some adjustment screws on the neck near the heel to allow for some action adjustment would be beneficial.

Have any pics of the action with it strung?

Edited November 23, 2011 by sdshirtman

[chops1983]

Hey Mike,

I think the theory is definately there, the other day when i screwed the neck on the Semi tele i used both E strings to hold the neck tight into the back of the neck pocket and also to check the alignment on the bridge. I couldn't tune up to pitch but i could lift the guitar and move it without the neck falling out, I was surprised i could do this.

My only concern would be the transfer of vibrations to the body and thus the bridge for sustain. The best sounding electric guitars to my ears always seem to be guitars that when strummed open, you can feel more of the vibration of the strings travelling right through the body timber, they almost feel alive! I often wander through music stores strumming guitars open listening for good ones and then feeling the butt ends of them. I find the best sounding ones always vibrate alot,... i must look like a weirdo to the staff. I strummed a vintage Burns once and stopped dead in my tracks, best sounding electric ive ever done this to, gave it a little grope and sure enough it vibrated better than a....... I could be totally crossing into Voodoo territory though.

You have probably already thought of this but you could also install a locking thumbscrew at the end of the neck between the pickups that could be adjustable to set neck angles for interchangable bridges.

Wow that was long, if you read all that good for you!

[Prostheta]

Novel. Can't supplant neck-through though! :-)

I strummed a vintage Burns once and stopped dead in my tracks, best sounding electric ive ever done this to, gave it a little grope and sure enough it vibrated better than a....... I could be totally crossing into Voodoo territory though.

I wouldn't say voodoo as such. The vibrations of the body are important as that is where the opposite end of the strings are anchored. I see guitars as a system, so the transfer of energy affects the way the strings are vibrate. Not voodoo, but pragmatic analysis of the instrument.

The most resonant solidbodies I have handled included an old Roland Artist or whatever model it was. The old Midi axe sharing the same design as the Ibanez' of the time. Great in open tunings.

Edited November 23, 2011 by Prostheta

[Our Souls inc.]

I'll say now that the pocket is snug and does not move at all. Vibration is transferred without a problem between the neck and body - this version probably has more surface contact than a bolt-on does.

I have one on a bass ( version one ) and its holding up fine. This guitar has been strung up and played for the last 8 months. I wanted to test it a bit before declaring success.

Although I find no need to change bridges or adjust the action via the neck, they would be do-able if desired. The angle of the neck is adjustable by the heel/pocket carve.

Version 3 is still under construction, but 1 and 2 are good to go.

this guitar has a neck pickup and a high toggle location - done on a single pup guitar, it would be much simpler/easier to execute.

[Prostheta]

I have to ask though - other than being a proof of concept, how does this improve on existing methods?

Imagine voiceover guy (Don LaFontaine):

"In a world without glue...."

[Our Souls inc.]

I like new concepts in design like that.

I would think some adjustment screws on the neck near the heel to allow for some action adjustment would be beneficial.

Have any pics of the action with it strung?

I do have some...

I tried to get a shot of the action, but.....

Now, don't get me wrong- this could be executed way better than this. but as a working proto, it did what I wanted it to do.

"Advantages" over conventional methods are opinion related only.

A set neck or neck through require major surgery for a neck replacement. I just have to take the strings off. Advantage goes to my method for that.

a bolt on has the string tension ( +/- 100 Lbs. ) pulling it apart. Mine has the tension pulling it together. Together. I like that. Extra tight neck join, even. A single pup version is in the plans, along with a 'hidden' join that can't be seen from the front.

[Our Souls inc.]

......... The vibrations of the body are important as that is where the opposite end of the strings are anchored. I see guitars as a system, so the transfer of energy affects the way the strings are vibrate. Not voodoo, but pragmatic analysis of the instrument.

Exactly! -

this version has all the string tension pulling the neck against the body, Vs pulling them 'apart' like a bolt on. Transfer of vibrations *should* be better than a bolt-on in theory.

[Our Souls inc.]

.......

My only concern would be the transfer of vibrations to the body and thus the bridge for sustain.

I am with you, but want to point out my theory on this.

The strings vibrate the bridge and neck first . Then the body. To me sustain is in how well the strings can send the vibration through the bridge, into the body, through the body into the neck and back through the strings again, like a big loop. Energy transfer or loss between the group will dictate how fast the energy disapates/ ends.

This version of a neck 'join' gets tighter as the strings come to tension, plus the neck heel vibrates dead center in the body, not from one end.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Workingman]

.......

My only concern would be the transfer of vibrations to the body and thus the bridge for sustain.

I am with you, but want to point out my theory on this.

The strings vibrate the bridge and neck first . Then the body. To me sustain is in how well the strings can send the vibration through the bridge, into the body, through the body into the neck and back through the strings again, like a big loop. Energy transfer or loss between the group will dictate how fast the energy disapates/ ends.

This version of a neck 'join' gets tighter as the strings come to tension, plus the neck heel vibrates dead center in the body, not from one end.

Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Very cool idea. Have you considered doing an otherwise identical bolt neck so as to be able to do an A/B comparison?

[Our Souls inc.]

Very cool idea. Have you considered doing an otherwise identical bolt neck so as to be able to do an A/B comparison?

thanks! i hadn't considered any A/B comparisons since the new neck joint had nothing to do with seeking improved sustain or tone. Just another option in the arsenal. To be honest, it doesnt sound any better or worse than my other guitars. Every build is unique, but at the end of the day, they make notes. This guitar plays and sounds like any other. It just got built funny.