Most Thin Guitar

[avengers63]

And the best guitars are what is the best combination of design and art. Thick or thin. Tone and the electricity the player feels when playing the instrument are all that matter.

[avi ten]

I can assure that the brightness isn't from the thickness of the wood. My Superthin prototype was limba body, spanish cedar neck. Both are known to be warm woods, and the guitar was indeed warm. IDK what beech's tonal characteristics are, but we all know that maple is uber-bright. Since yours is bright overall, I'd imagine beech is on the bright end as well.

The major difference I noticed in the sound of my prototype was that it sounded more open.. more alive. Thinning the wood down made it a lot more lively.

Thanks avengers63, I will certainly use your comments, during this build, to improve my next build.

Still I wonder, If technically it is possible to build a thin light weight guitar, and if by correct choice of wood even maintain a good tone, Why is the standard these heavy fat guitars? Something that I am missing?

Ummm...I am not sure what you mean.

I build thin light guitars and the guys who buy them tell me they like them so it is possible. You just need to spend more time on your design. It took me 4 years to figure it out and I am still working on it.

Also there is a place for tradition. The Les Paul is the defacto standard for thick and heavy. I would argue that it is the single greatest example of overbuilding a guitar. Yet it is an amazing instrument. Because most people think they are solid (most models are not) they try to bring this element into their design.

A lot of guys try and take parts of guitars they like and incorporate that into new models. Sometimes it works and sometimes it sucks... that is how it is. In the late 70s BC rich and Gibson all built thin lighter guitars. During the 80s there was a myth that thick guitars sounded better (blame Lynch and VH) so we all started building thicker guitars (ala San Dimas Strats 2" thick). During the 90s Parker convinced me what I thought in the 80s was wrong and I started going the other direction... I lost track for a few years but when I started back I knew what I wanted to do.

I finally realized they were all right. And the best guitars are what is the best combination of design and art. Thick or thin. Tone and the electricity the player feels when playing the instrument are all that matter.

I fully agree with your last sentence. Somehow I suspect that tradition is also a point to add to this sentebce. I am wondering how come that an instrument that is synonym to rock, and what it represents, is so bound to tradition. I asked the manager of a guitar school and store if he can sell my instrument. His answer was that the quality is fine but in order to sell it, it should look like a Strat and painted black. I can not understand this conservatism. I even see this attitude in this forum, a cold wind toward anything that is not in line with the standard. Sorry forum members for saying that.

[RestorationAD]

Welcome to the world of music. Sorry to destroy and idealistic ideas you may harbor but Guitarists are lemmings and shop keepers are in it to make money.

Why do we still play tube amps?

Why no matter how many new pickup designs come out does the Seth Lover PAF design still reign supreme?

Because they sound the best?

Or because we have been listening to them for 50+ years and our ears are accustom to them associating them with good?

Or because our favorite childhood musician played them?

I say some of all the above.

One thing you will learn is that in the world of musical instruments Vintage is a sacred term. Especially with guitarists. (Less so with Bass Players who tend to embrace new technology faster than guitarists). And playing a Vintage guitar like <insert guitar hero here> is very important to the psyche of a guitarist (I know I own several copies of my heros guitars).

Guitarists are a superstitious conservative lot of traditionalist followers. You have to live with that. Ask 50 guitarists about what strings are the best... then ask them how they wind them on the posts and why.

I have customers tell me all the time that they want an Ash guitar because it sounds best. I build guitars out of all kinds of exotic and non-exotic woods and they want an Ash body because that is what sounds best. Why? Because that is what they were told or read at some point or had an ash guitar they liked or their friend had one...

You just have to get past this.

Trust your design. In the end if it is good people will buy it. You may have to do a lot of convincing in the beginning but I guarantee if someone famous takes up your guitar convincing will not be so hard anymore.

[masterblastor]

...His answer was that the quality is fine but in order to sell it, it should look like a Strat and painted black. I can not understand this conservatism. I even see this attitude in this forum, a cold wind toward anything that is not in line with the standard. Sorry forum members for saying that.

Is it possible he was trying to politely inform you that you are trying to be unique for the sake of being unique?

From the lemming player in me. Here are my honest thoughts if I imagine seeing this on a rack in a guitar shop... At first glance that guitar looks like an attempt at an egro guitar that appears uncomfortable to play. the top horn looks like a ribcage buster. Why does it even have a top horn? The controls appear too close to the bridge, at least for my playing style. Same with the pegs. Also lower fret access doesn't appear optimal either. You've built a guitar that is no more ergo than a strat, other than weight, and looks like Patrick from Sponge Bob Square Pants with a neck sticking out of his head.

Keep refining it and make design decisions based on real life problems players face and I'm sure you'll end up with a killer guitar.

[westhemann]

I even see this attitude in this forum, a cold wind toward anything that is not in line with the standard.

Pfft...nonsense IMO.Strandberg,Scott French,Whatsisname(name escapes me because he hasn't posted in a while..Verhoenc's tutor for a bit..),and many others build incredibly original guitars that are always lovingly accepted here.Why?Because thre designs are so well done and executed that you can see just by looking that they are most likely extremely playable.

Yours looks awkward to me...Corvus meets Gumby...I can't see playing it,but that is just me.usually when a "cold wind blows"it isn't because you are "not in line with the standard"...it's just because it's not as cool to others as it is to you.

Two ways to have people here love your guitars...build a semi-standard design incredibly well,or truly innovate...or both at the same time...and adding huge wings here and there is not really innovative.It's just not pleasing to the eye IMO.

Still better than my first guitar..keep at it

[Anthony]

Beautiful work. Definitely see all the adult toy resemblance though. But if it works, its better than I'm doing.

[RestorationAD]

Beautiful work. Definitely see all the adult toy resemblance though. But if it works, its better than I'm doing.

Early Steinberger basses came with a plastic strap mount that placed the upper strap mount in about the same place.

You are moving the balance point and changing the center of gravity for the guitar. That would be why the ergonomics of the upper horn work.

[Dean]

The music industry and instruments are not what most people think.A lot of the reasons have be addressed,having said that ,I have been going to winter NAMM for over twenty years.I have seen all shapes and styles.All kinds of new and improve ideas.I have also heard some of the dumbest stuff said ,when someone has already made up their mind on a piece of equipment.Only to have a known guitar player come up and make it sing.Most really good players can make any playable guitar sound like one of the best.It's in the hands ,says ( put guitar hero's name here ) .I have seen some of the best guitar players just rip on a guitar that looks really beat up,holes,built up bodies to take the abuse,road rash,etc.Just build what you want ,it will work or it won't.Selling guitars is more about pleasing the buying public,not what you think it should be,period.

[masterblastor]

Beautiful work. Definitely see all the adult toy resemblance though. But if it works, its better than I'm doing.

Early Steinberger basses came with a plastic strap mount that placed the upper strap mount in about the same place.

You are moving the balance point and changing the center of gravity for the guitar. That would be why the ergonomics of the upper horn work.

Does it really need to be there tho?

The pegs are already in a position to make your knuckles bleed like stuck pigs if you dig into a power cord over the bucker. If you tried to anchor your little and/or ring finger in that position for a "nasally" bridge lead, you couldn't because the vol pot/knob is in the way.

Don't take this the wrong way avi, it's a bitch of mine about a lot of production guitars as well. It's also one of the reason's RAD in particular, and also the guys who posted observations here are my favorite builders (lol other than RAD doesn't use floating trems often ). They think of this stuff and we are lucky to have brains like that on the net willing to share/collaborate. It's not forum attitude man. It's artists and craftsmen who are passoniate about their trade. AKA..they give a **** about guitars more than making a buck.

Maybe if you kicked the pegs back a few inches. At least far enuff back that your knuckles don't hit peg razors when you smack a power chord like a madman over the bucker unanchored while jumping around on stage...and extend the control leg a bit and/or move the pot's back a bit so you can at least anchor a finger or two so you can play technical leads on the bridge while your body is moving. It may shift enuff weight towards the back so you don't need a giant @##%^ to get it to hang level.

Again, PLEASE don't take this in a bad way or like someone is sheiting on your work. Just trying to give an insight of what I look at when I walk into a room full of guitars looking for one that fits "me".

[avi ten]

First I attach photos to show how thin it is:

in front is a Jazz III pick___________________________________________it passes under the neck of a regular bolt neck guitar

Then I would like to explain what this guitar is, and what it is not.

For me guitar playing and building is fun and soul fuel, not a profession or money maker. part of the fun is to explore, search, understand and question. In order to get a guitar that sounds and looks like a LP or a Strat I can go to the store. This is why this guitar is "….a collection of different elements…". I learned from a single build what can be done, what not, and what is just a mambo jumbo of marketing. I wrote in the forum to share my experience on the principles and not on the nuts. That is, in spite of some comments and some of my mistakes, the guitar sounds good, it is very comfortable to hold and play and although it is so thin it is easy and cheap to build

The guitar was not designed to enter the GOTM competition. I am not skilled, experienced, crafted or equipped enough to this high level. For this reason I accept all the comments about ways to improve, no need to apologize.

On the top horn issue: I wanted to check if the horn can be used to stabilize the grip of the guitar, not only to be there as a base for the strap pin. I found that it is really working. The problem is that its angle should be fitted to the player's style of holding the guitar, but this is what custom guitars are build for (if you want to listen). The dildo look is of course something to modify; I have some ideas about how to do it in the next build.

[wisdom727]

Very nice work, Avi. I like your aluminum headpiece solution, and how your logo reflects the body shape. I can imagine it being very comfortable to play.

What brand of tuners did you use?

[avi ten]

Very nice work, Avi. I like your aluminum headpiece solution, and how your logo reflects the body shape. I can imagine it being very comfortable to play.

What brand of tuners did you use?

Thanks. Here is a closeup of the head. A proper metal head for a headless guitar costs about 100 US$, This costs 0. I did not invest in a nice plate pateren as I was not sure tht it will work, next time.

The Tuners are simple no name tuners. You can see here how they are mounted. the idea is to have the tuners at the same level of the back side of the body.