StreamLine Posted January 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 wow a lot of generalisation there. actually, you'll find the death metal is a more advanced genre than thrash....... lyrically, musically, atmospherically...... take a typical good thrash band....... ok megadeth. now lets take a good death metal band...... vader. and you're telling me vader is more immature than megadeth? lets not slag both genres, that's pointless. tune to G? which death metal have you been listening to? 90% of DM i listen to is played at concert pitch or half step down, including Bb on 7's...... ok take meshuggah, they tune to F# on 8 strings. so? its their style, they are brutal, insane, amazing live, and dont sound like anyone else. and they play jazzy type solos over tech DM riffs. you may have DM confused with numetal pantera is thrash? not really. pantera managed to make kickass heavy metal than however did not contribute to any genre in particular, and i cant be placed in thrash for sure. sure they ahd thrashier moments, but no. just heavy metal well i'm sorry for not agreeing with you, but using open E for every single song is hardly called creative..... but look Wes, what is the point of this? if you think death metal 'is crap played by low talent hacks' then what can i do? death metal is a hard genre to comprehend, and well you either like it or you dont. how can you judge who's better on average? what, you've seen every single guitarist, picked one with medium abilty and let them play against each other? now that is immature to say. ands how can you judge whether one is a good musician? i think kurt cobain could not play, but millions worship him as a guitar hero. i dont care, but i let them have their opinion i will not stand death metal being called inferior to any genre; it is not. thrash and death are different genres, and you simply cant make bullshit statements like guitarists of one genre are better than of the other. its certainly harder to appreciate than a metallica cd, which most blink fans own, but that does not make it any less inferior. all death metal is immature thrash? please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 i did not mean to upset you,but when you spend a little more time on the guitar you will see what i mean. yes pantera is thrash.you are coming in on the tail end of thrash and right smack in the middle of death metal,so you have a different perspective.i came in at the beggining of thrash and i have watched bands like napalm death play the simplest riffs and expect people to listen...funny thing is,people do listen i am not slandering all death metal.bands like morbid angel and death are quite talented(were,in the case of death.)sepultura is one of my favorite bands.but most death metal has traded in complex riffs for downtuned brutality. i am not down on death metal.like i said i play both...as they are almost identical guitarwise that is not much of a feat. as you learn more you will find that all the staccato rythms played on the e string interspersed with single notes and power chords with the occasional bar chords are the same between genres bottom line...if you can play top of the line thrash,then you can play top of the line death metal.they ARE THE SAME TEQNIQUES. what other music styles can you say that about? i am not trying to put you down...i am just saying the guitar teqnique is the same. learn how to play death metal really well.become trey azagthoth.if you do i can guarantee you will be able to play thrash...and vice versa.but that will not make you able to play flamenco.i promise you kerry king can play morbid angel and that azagthoth can play slayer.i promise you that james hetfield can play both by the way this is only a debate and i enjoy such things,so look at it that way and don't get mad....just make your points and try to convince me i am wrong.that is the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 by the way i voted ebony.it is perfect for all the styles you mentioned.great wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 listen to Painkiller. i listened to priest in the early 80s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreamLine Posted January 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 i might be right in that i come in at a different time, my viewpoint is different to yours. they are similar yes, but i do not find that that they are so similar as they appear to you. the bands with thrashier sound, like old In Flames, Arch Enemy, Soilwork, Hatebreeder, etc they are generalised in a subgenre - melodic death, and they are very close to old school thrash - lots of Soilwork sounds exactly like Slayer but with growling and more technical solos - lets face it, neither Kerry's nor Jeff's solos were ever...... melodic i just listened back to a lot of DM i have, yes thrash influences are present, more apparent in some than others, however there are next to no signs of thrash style riffs in bands like Opeth, at the prog end of the genre, and Meshuggah and Nile, at the tech end of the genre. sure thrash is very important to development of metal; but then so were Led Zep. i can appreciate your point that techniques can be the same, but i have played both (granted, for 4 years only) but there is a difference in approach, to when i write a death metal song and to when i just wonna do some old school thrash. if anything, DM is much more broad influenced and boldly structured, whereas pretty much all thrash stuff seems to be heading in the same direction musically you know? i agree thrash metal has a colossal influence on death metal = this after all the stuff the current bands grew up on, this WAS the heaviest **** around. however my generation is now growing up more on death metal, as inevitable this is what a lot of the true metal scene has progressed to, and this is the stuff that will influence me and my band in the years to come. but i do believe death metal is a more advanced form of metal than thrash ever was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 if you want your question answered discuss the question. you're SEVERLY hijacking your own damned thread. seriously if you want a question answered honestly get back to the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreamLine Posted January 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 yes, but then Wes prompted me to answer to his posts..... should have just done it by PM and i did suggest getting back to topic, but no ok getting back to the topic, which wood is the best? also would it be wise to use megapots on a 7 string with H-S-H setup? or should i just stick to 500k? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 advanced?i disagree...the natural progression of metal?yeah,maybe. but that does not have anything to do with the fact that if you can play one well,you can play the other well.they are the same.the difference is the surrounding musicians as in the drummer and the vocalist and the amount of gain.thrash guitarists turn the gain back a little for clarity and that sharp,attacking sound which is not present in most death metal. personally,i quite dislike those "blast beats" you talk about.they completely hide whatever it is that the guitarists are doing in the back. i like death metal played with a drummer such as the one from sepultura.back in 85? i think it was..when they first came out..they were among the first...they had slightly more aggresive thrashmetal(speedmetal if you like) music with gutteral vocals caused by the singer's natural gutteral accent and deep voice.amazingly enough,everyone started forming bands with singers like him.next thing you know,here is death metal,which whenit first started picking up was imo crap.there was no thought behind the music,it was all just slapped together.those guys had no concept of music theory or even scales or modes(even slayer always had a firm grasp of that)and it was great for a beggining guitarist such as me because it was the height of simplicity. granted it has advanced quite a bit since then,but only within the last very few years have actual musicians formed out of death metal.james murphy and trey azagthoth are amazing talents and hopefully in the future death metal will rely on true musicians such as them to create a strong musical voice BUT thrash advancd to the highest level before it went back underground(not really underground,but not as out there as it once was)and death has not reached it's full potential yet,making the genre of death metal NOT as advanced as the genre of death.and death metal has yet to implement even one teqcnique that thrash did not discover for them. thrash has influenced almost every new rock band on the radio today...the disturbed,the deftones,powrman 5000,all of them. it will be a few more years before death metal influences the mainstream as much as thrash already has but none of that changes the simple fact that if you play thrash well,you also play death well,because the guitar playing is (i can not stress it enough)the same.bands like vio-lence and nuclear assault,and sadus are(were)as fast as any death metal,while being more technical i find itinteresting that you say deicide has more thrash than death metal influence...what makes it so?the technical nature of the playing? so how is death metal more advanced if you have to take away the tchnical portion to achieve it? but anyway that is a bogus argument on my part because deicide is,in fact, death metal and they are,in fact very talented musicians. when it gets to the point where the musicianship in death metal raises to the level that all the wannabees fall to the wayside,and all that is left are the actual musicians...that is when death metal will have peaked...and then they will replace it with something less complex and which you will not like as much,and youwill be the one debating with the younger generation about how death metal is more complex than numetal,or whatever they will call the next generation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 if you want your question answered discuss the question. you're SEVERLY hijacking your own damned thread. seriously if you want a question answered honestly get back to the topic. snork...jeez man..it is his own topic...if he wants to discuss death metal vs thrash then that is his business.it is amazing to me that you want to police the website while all the while you are hijacking threads and cursing all over the forum. worry about your own behavior and realize that this is not a build thread so get over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 dah..... sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreamLine Posted January 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 well it is true, if you can play DM well, you can play thrash well. but then if you can play fast blues well, you can play Hendrix. and if you can play powermetal, you can play 70's rock without a problem. you see where i'm going? it takes a high level of ability to be able to play both genres well..... but to me DM sounds very diffirent then thrash. blastbeats are a thing of preference, and i think they add an even more aggresive edge to the music..... granted they dont have to be there, but if they are, it becomes even heavier still. death metal hasnt peaked........ or has it? black metal has evolved from it, which many see a step from death metal , which was a step from thrash.... and DM only appeared once the thrash scene pretty much died down i mean look at Opeth, Meshuggah, Morbid Angel, Deicide, Empreror (bordering into BM), Vader, Hypocrisy, At the gates, Devolved, etc have all been around for a logn time and i cannot really think of any new good DM bands, (lets leave MDM such as in flames out)......... you can see this as the demise of the DM scene as a whole, and for the years before Varg of Burzum got jailed, BM scene was on the rise i feel death metal is more advanced than thrash, the range of death metal bands' styles is so big...... you got Nile, that use egyptian and ancient influences, for lyrics and melodies, then you got brutal tech metal like Hypocrisy (which i dont ejoy as much) and Meshuggah......... you have bands that use lots of keyboards, and others dont. Some are very prog metal, like Opeth, Nevermore, and others focus on thrash melodic aspects, like the melodic death scene. i feel DM is a much broader and more exciting genre than thrash ever was, lets face it, anthrax, slayer, metallica, exodus, megadeth all sounded good, but very alike. and the same is true for all post-80s true thrash bands, they all have that sound. DM is much broader, in lyrical aspects and musical, i believe death metal is one of the most technical genres in metal, though progressive neo-classical stuff like Straovarius, Dream Theater and Symphony X is even more technically challenging. while maybe DM did not invent any new techniques, it invented a new sound, which a next generation of metal, black metal was born of. i dislike black metal, however for the purposes of the argument, i am discussing it as the newest form of metal, because it simply is; however for now it is an extrmist minority...... there are many many more great death metal musicians beyong Azagthoth and Murphy.... if guys from Kalmah met up with Yngwie, they would have a good chance of owning his ass.... DM is much deeper, its a genre within itself, there are so many types of it, and i ahve DM for different moods, like Deicide and MA is when i'm just chilling, Meshuggah is when i need to get fired up, Opeth is for when i'm depressed and need to los myself in music, Kalmah, In Flames, Soilwork is for when i'm in a good mood..... I cant say the same for thrash, though i love Kill 'em All and Rust in Piece, as well as Reign in Blood because thrash has had a big influence on rock, does not make it any more advanced, sure it was a revolution in metal, perfecting metal as METAL, but i do not believe it has actually gotten very far - the solos and the technicallity of solos was already there, EVH is credited for bringing solos up to speed, and well thrash just made the sound of metal........ faster and more aggressive. DM is in some cases is faster and more agressive than thrash, but it is also much broader musically, it is a much bigger genre. i did not say deicide are not death metal....... they are; what i was saying is that their sound is closer to thrash than it usually is with death metal. talking of technical music again, listen to Kalmah, they are much more technical than Deicide but their sound is in essence a bit more like powermetal than thrash. aslo with Meshuggah - they play in really screwed up time signatures, very very fast, and their solos are very difficult and unusual sounding. in your next reply, could you answer if its a good idea to use megapots on a 7 string h-s-h? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 but then if you can play fast blues well, you can play Hendrix. and if you can play powermetal, you can play 70's rock without a problem. untrue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 death metal hasnt peaked........ or has it? black metal has evolved from it, which many see a step from death metal , which was a step from thrash.... and DM only appeared once the thrash scene pretty much died down untrue...black metal came first...i remember because i was there...look up candlemass,and iron maiden for that matter(although iron maiden is a stretch) and like i said sepultura was 85...metallica was 83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 , lets face it, anthrax, slayer, metallica, exodus, megadeth all sounded good, but very alike. and the same is true for all post-80s true thrash bands, they all have that sound. untrue...they sound nothing alike...they only sound similar if you have no ear for it slayer similar to metallica?please...learn some of both..it will amaze you what slayer does...seriously,learn "hallowed point"...mettalica never wrote anything so difficult...and that is one of slayers easier songs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 what do you mean by "megapots" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 check out stone sour. those guys are sick. best metal band i've heard in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 sorry snork...stone sour is one one those thrash influenced rock bands...not really metal...good band though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 that josh rand has some seriously petrucci like licks. seriously listen to the song get inside. the solo on that is amazing. i never thought i'd live to see the day that thrash had someone musically proficient in it. living in a day of korn and all *sigh*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreamLine Posted January 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 well wes, black metal only really took off with Mayhem, Burzum, Empreror, etc which is after DM came about, and calling Maiden BM IS stretching it, very very far. True BM is only really present on the norwegian scene at the moment, and it did not start until 92/93 as such. i get your point, slayer do sound different to 'tallica, but point is, as a genre they are very very close. the open E riffing. the solos. the song strucutures slayer's riffs are very chromatic, and metallica is sort of more sleek, and i actually play a few songs from each with my band...... they are not musical creations on genious however in my opinion. but i've kinda lost track of the argument now Wes, is it, 'Slayer owns Metallica' or 'Was there BM before DM?' or 'whats better thrash or death?' i think its clear me and you will never agree on anything, but its fun and Snork methinks you havent heard some decent metal for ages! check out bands i've been mentioning, and maybe Wes's trash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 1000k pots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 well wes, black metal only really took off with Mayhem, Burzum, Empreror, etc which is after DM came about, and calling Maiden BM IS stretching it, very very far. True BM is only really present on the norwegian scene at the moment, and it did not start until 92/93 as such. i get your point, slayer do sound different to 'tallica, but point is, as a genre they are very very close. the open E riffing. the solos. the song strucutures slayer's riffs are very chromatic, and metallica is sort of more sleek, and i actually play a few songs from each with my band...... they are not musical creations on genious however in my opinion. but i've kinda lost track of the argument now Wes, is it, 'Slayer owns Metallica' or 'Was there BM before DM?' or 'whats better thrash or death?' i think its clear me and you will never agree on anything, but its fun and Snork methinks you havent heard some decent metal for ages! check out bands i've been mentioning, and maybe Wes's trash i dont listen to most of that mainstream stuff. dont underestimate me. I listen to a lot more bands than you could possibly imagine. i like dream theater stone sour and black label society and thats about it for thrash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 none of those are thrash,snork. exodus,old mettalica,sadus,those are thrash black metal started mid 80s...slightly before death btw notice how the singers in black metal all sound like a caricature of bruce dickinson?coincidence?i think not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snork Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 god all these fine lines are obnoxious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 it's not a fine line snork...the difference is massive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreamLine Posted January 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 bruce dickinson? you must be having a laugh! i have heard any falsetto powermetal singing in BM, thats for sure! i do not think BM was around in the form that i understand it by, ie the church burnings, pagan worship, etc it only started in mid 90's, black metal scene is young, first BM bands where just a couple of extremist DM bands, for instance Empreror. and how exactly are they caricaturing bruce dickinson? the black metal vocals are some of the weird vocal sounds you'd ever heard anywhere, and these guys cant really sing...... but Bruce was one of the finest metal singers back in the day. In any case, to suggest black metal evolved from Maiden would be to not only miss out thrash metal, but to also miss out Death Metal. Lets not forget, Black metal is more sped up, satanic, and hateful form of death metal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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