bob123 Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I can google to my hearts content, but if someone has a really good tutorial or book to recommend Im all ears... thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I know of none. As far as I know, 2k paint is basically reserved for professional use. Every time I buy a tin it comes with a warning "For professional use only" However, I have watched DVDs on painting cars using 2k, you could look in that direction. There's an old VHS one that is floating around the net - i think its called "How to paint your car" and it's basically a guy doing a dodgy panel shop style and respray, (as opposed to a full strip and spray from scratch) on a white C4 Corvette - but you would learn a lot from it if you're new to the 2k game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I can google to my hearts content, but if someone has a really good tutorial or book to recommend Im all ears... thanks in advance! If you are doing clear or one colour candy coat there is nothing to it, mix up your two pack, don't give yourself the hassle of spraying, brush it on using an extra fine artists brush. Apply a thin coat at a time, let dry, repeat. After about 4 coats lightly sand. Keep going until you have enough to polish. If you had stain in the initial coats I would do a few coats of clear before you start wet and dry sanding. Step up through the wet and dry grits until you get to 2000. Then use micro mesh sanding pads up to 12 000. Then apply cut and polish paste and buff with a lambswool pad on a drill or buffer until you can see yourself looking back at you. Too easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Just my opinion - but I wouldn't put a brush anywhere near a 2k (auto) product. They are designed to be sprayed. Simple as that. There are industrial 2k products that are brush on - I'm not experienced in the use of these, I have seen them used at work, but the finishes are really quite **** compared to auto 2k. I would not suggest or even bother experimenting with them myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I did a bit of googling trying to find the video I mentioned, this is the guys official website: http://www.paintucation.com/ The video's he's advertising here are not the ones I've seen - I watched the old 80's/90's ones - but it looks like he's remade/updated the same videos so they're probably better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Just my opinion - but I wouldn't put a brush anywhere near a 2k (auto) product. They are designed to be sprayed. Simple as that. There are industrial 2k products that are brush on - I'm not experienced in the use of these, I have seen them used at work, but the finishes are really quite **** compared to auto 2k. I would not suggest or even bother experimenting with them myself. Come on demonx, you need to be more adventurous, if a beautiful girl asked you to do something unconventional with her would you say Oh no, it wasn't designed for that There are more 2 pack finishes than I think you have experience with, and they give excellent finishes brushed or sprayed, Brian May's original Red Special seems to have held up OK. For more 2 pack brushed on finishes see http://www.simnettguitars.com/home/archives/projects/redwood http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=42221&st=15#entry457827 http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=42221&st=195#entry467363 just anti naysaying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 If you re-read my posts, I emphasized the word AUTO - meaning I was referring to the Automotive 2k and not the inferior brush on style products. When you compare the cheap stuff and the quality stuff in person - it is obvious. In photo's not so much. I've used products where the clear is in the $100+ a tin price range and products where the clear is in the $400+ a tin price range, there is no comparison. They might photo similar, but when you eye them in person, when you use them yourself, the quality speaks for itself. They look different. They spray different. They sand different. They polish different. I guess it comes down to - if you want it to look like its home made, use cheap stuff, if you want it to look professional, learn to use the professional stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 If you are willing to do the extra leveling work,it doesn't matter how it gets from the mix to the wood.You can wipe it on with a rag if you want,as long as you get it thick enough to level out.It's extra work though. I brushed on the finish to one of my recent guitars,I don't recall which one...but the finish was the same 2 part I always use,I just didn't feel like spraying it. One of the GOTM winners from the early days here had a nitro finish which was put on with a roller.. I truly believe that 2 part finishes are superior to single part finishes in durability,but I know better than to think they must be applied with a spray gun to look right,because I have done it several ways. Spraying DOES make it easier...especially if you are good enough to get it on there without orange peel or runs.Spraying = less sanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 You dont need to spray, Although there are finishes that specify a gun for application. Most of those are Automotive 2K finishes, I suspect that is what Demonx is talking about. After all the guy is a petrol head (even more so than me) so he is talking from his own experiance. But if you read his post he does specifically mention Auto 2K. To properly answer your question we need to know how you want/plan to apply your finish, Do you even have spraying equipment ? If not then brush/wipe on 2K might be your only options. Those can be applied in a myriad of ways, brush on, wipe on with a rag, sponge, I have even dipped bodies in the past - still do sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Talking of different ways to apply the paint, there is this artist who calls himself Pricasso, and I and I am cranky that he can paint 10 times better with his wiener than I can with a brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Phew lol. Wasn't expecting this deluge of replies... I have an HVLP spray rig. Im having the following problems 1) I cant seem to mix my polyester correctly. I've tried a little bit of hardner, Ive tried a relatively lot of hardner. I cant figure it out. 2) I painted one guitar that DID dry, and the damn paint shrunk back a ridiculous amount. I have a LOT of experience painting and buffing, thats not my problem. I just cant seem to mix/spray this crap correctly, and Im not sure what Im doing wrong. What I need is a book on the science of mixing this evil liquid Thank you gents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 I just cant seem to mix/spray this crap correctly, and Im not sure what Im doing wrong. What I need is a book on the science of mixing this evil liquid Thank you gents Does the product not have mix ratios stipulated for it ? Everything I have ever used says it righ on the packaging or tin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Yeah,it is a specific ratio,not a ballpark figure.If you don't get the ratio right it will not work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Don't play around with hardner amounts. Mix product and hardner exact to tech sheet specs. You van mess around with reducer amounts, however I advise starting with what the tech sheet suggests. If it's not curing: are you using correct brand/type hardner and reducer? You know you cant mix general purpose or enamel hardeners/reducers with 2k? Hardner ratio can do this. Old hardner could do this. They do have a shelf life. What is the temperature where you are spraying in and what temperature hardner have you bought? They must be matched. If it's not mixed correctly it could possibly do this. I recommend around 200 stirs, twenty left then twenty right, twenty left until you get two hundred. What about air - are you getting moisture in your airlines? When spraying water based paints then it's not so much an issue (but still not good) but with 2k you need to make sure your tank is dumped of water before spraying and that te water/oil traps (I use two) are empty. That is something to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 What you say shrunk, do you mean shrunk or sunk? As in, is there still full coverage or has it pulled back from the edges, or has is sunk into the timber? What are you spraying over? Raw timber? Clear coated timber? Primer/basecoat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted August 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) Hey guys. I have an inline filter, I dont think theres moisture in the line. The "spec" for mixture is 1 pint per gallon.... so a 1/8 ratio. I mix 1 cup with 30cc's, but that didnt dry, I tried 20, ive tried 40, both dont cure. I got it to cure ONCE. ONCE. And this is when it pulled back. this was over a painted guitar body. If you look, you can see it pulling back from the edges. I may have to redo the finish all over again, or maybe I can add some more clear. What I may not be doing is mixing it long enough? If this is a problem that may be my stupidly simple solution.... I'm wasting a lot of money "experimenting", and its getting old!!! I appreciate all you guys chiming in... I wish I could be more specific about all this, I just dont know what Im messing up. This blue one is crap, the damn paint dried sticky in some parts and others it cured. Maybe it IS my mixing? Edited August 14, 2012 by bob123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 As I said before - when I mix anything with hardner, I mix left 20 times, right twenty times, left right etc - if you dont alternate, all you are doing is creating a whirl that spins and doesnt mix - I learned this when I worked in a media room at a laboratory years ago mixing chemicals. When I worked in the lab, we didn't count turns, I had to mix for 5 minutes to a timer. At home, I count to 200. A lot of the time 100 turns is not enough. You can tell this when you're mixing colored stuff into clear, but when its all clear, you can't see, so you just have to know! You also have to know the product you're pouring out of the tin has been stirred also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 With all that said though - if it's being sprayed through a gun, the venturi would also partially mix this as it's being forced through the cap etc. Sure not mixing will create some major issues, mosty likely failure, but it might not cause this. Its definitely one place to start fixing your process though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mender Posted August 15, 2012 Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 For mixing, try something like these, much better than a solid stick http://www.transtool...cks-3-pack.html I actually make my own out of beech or oak, an inch wide and 1/8" thick, with several holes drilled through. Sand smooth and clean thoroughly to make sure there are no bits than can come off in the liquid. Mix backwards and forwards so the mixture is forced through the holes, as well as round and round, alternating between clockwise and anticlockwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted August 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 (edited) For mixing, try something like these, much better than a solid stick http://www.transtool...cks-3-pack.html I actually make my own out of beech or oak, an inch wide and 1/8" thick, with several holes drilled through. Sand smooth and clean thoroughly to make sure there are no bits than can come off in the liquid. Mix backwards and forwards so the mixture is forced through the holes, as well as round and round, alternating between clockwise and anticlockwise. thats terrific! I just use popsicle sticks haha With all that said though - if it's being sprayed through a gun, the venturi would also partially mix this as it's being forced through the cap etc. Sure not mixing will create some major issues, mosty likely failure, but it might not cause this. Its definitely one place to start fixing your process though. my gun is a siphon feed. I think that would be the case with top feed, but the siphon feeds would simply just suck up whatever it sucks up, mixed or otherwise. I usually just mix for about 30 seconds, never gave it much thought! Edited August 16, 2012 by bob123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mender Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 thats terrific! I just use popsicle sticks haha ...I usually just mix for about 30 seconds, never gave it much thought! The holes in the mixing stick really makes a huge difference compared to a popsicle stick, but even then you should mix for at least a couple of minutes. 30 seconds won't guarantee a perfectly mixed solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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