Baritone version of Gibson Longhorn type guitar

[ScottR]

Congrats on the son even if he was a surprise. Here's a link to the last set of templates I made for a cavity and cover. Scroll down a bit.

MDF is pretty easily worked to finesse a nice fitting cover, if you aren't going to get some CNC or laser cut.

SR

 

[psikoT]

5 hours ago, Aakoo said:

I would like to hear suggestions on how to make good templates  for control cavity lids and the lid place on the back of guitar body. I am not very keen on going freehand. I am not sure if I am going to make the lids from wood or if I do it from plastic. On both scenarios, I'd like to have decent templates.

In my last build I explain my way of doing some of them, like electronics and pickups. For the contour body and headstock, I found that making them in two passes is much easier. I suggest to use first a thin board (5/6 mm), which is easier to sand and control. Then, once you have the prototype, you can use it to route the final one in a thicker board (10/16 mm).

[Prostheta]

The problem I've always found with inset cavity covers is making the line consistent. Positive/negative templates are always a solution, but not the simplest to implement. An inlaying guide bushing/cutter set is one way (I figure this has crossed your mind eh, @KnightroExpress?). Otherwise I think that getting creative or doing it the brute force way by hand is on the cards.

I guess it depends on how finely you like to slice the problem. Getting a razor-accurate mating cavity/cover line isn't something I would associate with being done by hand, however I am quite open to the idea that a very patient and skilled person could manage this. My vote is on a router, guide bushing and offset copying. It's a good way for larger covers that don't have tight corners or radii, plus it's repeatable and you can do it in template stock rather than the workpiece itself.

[Prostheta]

This this (warning: contains Festool content)

 

Most of this video underlines why Festools are absolute arse.

[KnightroExpress]

I considered bushings, but ended up finding a template bit with a 1/8" CL that works perfectly for covers and such 

[Prostheta]

That (Whiteside?) kit is available from the UK however it needs an Imperial collet for the 1/4" shank. I best be ordering one of those in addition to the 8mm cone for the Makita then.

[KnightroExpress]

Yes, it's a Whiteside bit. This is the one I got, it's just a simple template bit so you can use it 1:1 with your cavity recess template.

[Prostheta]

I figured that making a negative template first of all (since they're easier) and producing a perfectly-mating positive template using a bushing set would be the best way forward. I've not thought about this for a long while, so I'm not sure whether you mean that the Whiteside milling bit would be used as part of the template-making process or simple when using the templates. I suspect the latter?

[KnightroExpress]

In my case, I get my templates laser cut... the difference between the cover template and the matching negative space is simply the laser kerf, or 0.005". It's a three part system- the negative, the cover ledge/actual cavity walls, and the cover.

[Prostheta]

It's always good when you can get things laser cut. I got templates for my bench hold-downs done that way which proved pretty expensive in comparison to what most people would end up paying. Still, they're part of the bench tutorial/article thing so needs must.

[KnightroExpress]

Indeed, having templates lasered is definitely a pricy option. I'd argue that that resulting precision and durability of the templates is well worth it if you intend to do more than a one-off of whatever you're making.

[Aakoo]

I borrowed the cavity template, and made a template for the lid. So that is done now. But next issue I am wondering I really should need some advice.

For fretboard binding I have 1.5 mm maple strip and then ebony strip, slightly less thick. I would like to do the same on headstock. How do I get ebony to bind on the tight corners, right after the nut, and a bit less tighter turns on the very top of the headstock? Moisture and heat, or is there better tricks for this? One way would also be to do the ebony binding on small pieces, and fill the spaces with sanding dust, That's what I do if you do not have any better suggestion how to get ebony flexible enough that it doesn't break. I would prefer having the binding to be one piece. So bring on all the good ideas!

[Prostheta]

If done properly, you shouldn't need to fill any gaps. I think that with enough preparation and understanding on how to do this, you should be able to do it no problem. Heat is usually the answer. I suspect that it might be possible to steam the wood using a food steamer on the cooker, especially since they are small parts. Making a mould for the individual parts might be a good idea, so that you are not having to bend the wood on the headstock itself. Wooden binding is not a speciality of mine, however Chris (@verhoevenc) is the first person that springs to mind with this kind of work.

[Aakoo]

Thanks for the tip. 

I think I could try to do the mould and try steam the wood stripes for a while before putting the stripes to the mould.  Any suggestions on how long to steam? 10 minutes, 30 minutes, longer?

[Prostheta]

I've no experience of doing this. I would wait until Chris or anybody else can provide input here. Without that knowledge, you can only experiment with it and see what works. Either way, heat is the key.

[verhoevenc]

Sorry, no time to read this whole thing but I BELIEVE I get the gist of it. I actually have a video on wood binding. I wouldn't really "steam" things. I'd be more inclined to buy a piece of steel pipe with a cap on the end, throw a BBQ charcoal lighter into the non-capped end, wait til water boils off it when dropped on it, and bend as per usual (see video). Obviously, clamp that hot pipe in a metal vise!

Best,

Chris

PS: SOrry if I got what ya'll were asking for wrong in my quick glimpse. Running out the door!

[Prostheta]

It's pretty much on the ball Chris. My own personal uncertainly was as to whether to bend the binding wet or dry. I would be tempted to do "wet" simply so that the water acts as a better transport medium for the heat and reduces scorching. Even soaking or boiling the binding seems to "feel" right. A lot of that comes from Irving Sloane's "Classic Guitar Construction" since he goes to some lengths describing making a heated tin bath for boiling sides prior to bending. That book is a genuine treasure. Being out of print, it might even be public domain....perhaps I should look into adding it to the PG library....

[Prostheta]

My own copy dates back to 1976, just like myself....

[verhoevenc]

I'm fine with a soak/boil for wood that isn't wide. IMO, and take this with a grain of salt cause I haven't tried it, I'd be worried about cupping on wider pieces like acoustic sides, etc. Plus, I've never had any issue with just wetting it and bending (pipe or bender) so why bother with the boil/soak method at all?

Best,

Chris

[Prostheta]

I look at it more from a simplicity point of view. I think that since @Aakoo has done his (fantastic) dreadnought, he should have a bender available. I don't, so I look for what IS available. We have a two-tier steamer for the cooker, and I bet that it would be wicked easy to steam small pieces of binding without any special setup or considerations.

[Aakoo]

Thanks.

i bent the sides of the acoustic guitar few years back. Then the wood I used was Indian rosewood, but this time I'm working with ebony, and thought ebony is abit more difficult to bind.

I will call the course leader and ask if I could borrow the iron one day here. The course has ended for this term, so I try to finalize the guitar without the tools at the school.  I have to see if I manage to get in for next year. Last year it took some 20 seconds to get course full, so it requires some luck to get in. 

[Prostheta]

Is it Ari-Jukka that runs the course or does AJL have anything to do with it? He makes some tasty burgers. I hope you have spare Ebony so that you can do some test pieces. I can imagine it is difficult to work with.

[Aakoo]

15 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Is it Ari-Jukka that runs the course or does AJL have anything to do with it? He makes some tasty burgers. I hope you have spare Ebony so that you can do some test pieces. I can imagine it is difficult to work with.

No, it's not AJL running the course, I don't think he is actively involved on the course in any way. I know he had sold some wood for a few guys in the course, but other than that I doubt he has been involved... 

I have some 2 or 3 fretboard length ebony strips for the binding and as ebony is pretty forgiving as the breaks and holes can be pretty easily hidden from eye with epoxy and sawdust, so I think I can make it.. Will post some photos when done. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Aakoo

[Prostheta]

Good luck!