First Build - The "Nozcaster"

[Norris]

Thanks for the advice chaps.

Yes, I'm not sure if it's going to work. I do have enough thickness of the offcut left to do 2 or 3 more attempts if it does split. If it doesn't work out, then I'll have to put up with the bird's eye maple (such a problem! ). It's just that I'd quite like a matching headstock, and as I'm binding the body and neck it would be nice if the head was also bound. I might try the dye on an offcut of the neck to see how the colours match up.

I'm going by the advice of my instructors - they think it's doable. They frequently make acoustics & mandolins with quite intricate bindings and inlays, so we'll see how it goes. The main issue is that it's a pretty tight curve to get round. Personally I think that it might be easier to apply the veneer, trim it to the headstock, dye it, then carefully cut a mini binding channel through the veneer & bind it. For now though I'll follow the advice of those more experienced than me .

Anyway that's for the new year when the classes resume. For now I'll chug on with the body, where I kind of know what I'm doing & have a few more templates to prepare.

Oh, and I've also finally got my hands on a decent daylight simulation lamp, so I'll get a more intense colour-fastness test set up on my test piece. It's nearly the winter solstice here in the UK, so natural sunlight is about as minimal as it gets

[Andyjr1515]

Ah....instructors....good luck 

just a thought - if it won't bend the 90 degrees, could you reduce the angle and just lose a little bit of the fretboard overhang?

[Prostheta]

I find that the most immediate difficulty negotiating around a curve is that the cut changes angle with respect to the grain direction. One moment of careless thought and the wood splits with the grain and you end up having to glue a chunk back on. A gramil-style graving tool should do the trick, or at the very least help scribe the cut line across the grain.

I think it'll look great. Just imagine how the binding will cross to meet the fingerboard though. Knowing where the meeting line of the neck-and-binding curves up to meet the fingerboard around the nut or end of the fingerboard is an important aesthetic consideration. Will the fingerboard be bound also? Sorry if I missed that bit of info.

[Prostheta]

I'm actually not sure if I've ever seen this done you know! Whether it is because of it being a bad idea or simply difficult is unknown. Never considered it. Just make sure that you can blame the instructors for pushing you into it.

Do a Google Image Search for "fender headstock binding". Nothing.

[Norris]

Hopefully, fingers crossed, the binding on the fretboard should match up with the binding on the headstock. Imagine drawing a line down the sides of the neck, down the slope and around the perimeter of the headstock - that's what I'm after

1 hour ago, Prostheta said:

I'm actually not sure if I've ever seen this done you know! Whether it is because of it being a bad idea or simply difficult is unknown. Never considered it. Just make sure that you can blame the instructors for pushing you into it.

.I think "bad idea" is probably the answer . And it's me pushing the instructors - they raised their eyebrows rather when I suggested it

3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

just a thought - if it won't bend the 90 degrees, could you reduce the angle and just lose a little bit of the fretboard overhang?

The fretboard will only overhang by the depth of the veneer. I can't take the end of the fretboard back too much as it's covering the truss rod adjuster nut. With hindsight it might have been slightly easier to fit the truss rod further down the neck towards the bridge, then I could have used a shallower angle on the curve.

I have it all in my head - I've just got to work out how to translate it into wood form . Anyway as a contingency I'll try dyeing some of the neck wood offcuts so at least it will be colour-matched - it will be opposite ends of the guitar, they are similar colour woods, so close would probably be good enough.

[Prostheta]

Binding can do some silly things with the correct application of heat or solvents (not both!) so it's good to forearm yourself with a bit of testing with what you have on hand. Some just stretch and become thin, change colour or otherwise distort.

[Norris]

Just to clarify what I'm trying to do, I did a quick & dirty paper mock up last night...

The heel at the top there that is not covered by the paper will be trimmed off when I do the neck carve

Obviously ignore that the end of the fretboard needs trimming - you can see the nut line on the neck & board. From that angle the curve doesn't look quite as steep. The end of the fretboard will be thinned behind the nut (or I'll have issues with the string break angle) and rounded over to meet the veneer.

I remembered last night that we have an electric vegetable steamer sitting in the back of the cupboard that should be big enough to fit the veneer in. That should allow me to "cook" it pretty well. I'll need to experiment with the binding, but haven't got my hands on it yet. So apart from getting the fretboard on the sanding table to level off the back, there's not much more I can do on the neck for the time being.  

Edited October 15, 2017 by Norris

[Andyjr1515]

Hi, Norris

Yes - to my relief, I think I had envisaged it OK  

The bend isn't quite as steep as I had at first feared, although, depending on the maple, it might still be a challenge.  I still think it would be a lot easier to glue the plate on, scrape clean / sand fine-fit the rebate then glue the binding on...

[Norris]

Progress: Flush trimmed the body top piece, then planed the top a little

I then got it on the sanding table for 3 or 4 hours (ow my shoulders - there must be an easier way!)

And even with the P40 grit on the sanding table it's getting a nice sheen (blur in the background is the good Lady Norris walking through shot )

It's VERY smooth to the touch, and couldn't get much flatter. Having latex gloves on for all that time doesn't half make your hands wrinkly, but better than getting grease & grime all over it.

It still needs a bit more as there are still a couple of very slightly low spots - probably another couple of hours at the rate it's going. It's amazing the difference between a flat planed surface and a flat sanded surface

Edited October 15, 2017 by Norris

[Norris]

And an update on the ink colour fastness test. After 3 weeks in the winter daylight (I can't really say sunshine as we haven't had a lot of it!)

There is definitely a slight colour change, however it appears to be a greenish tinge rather than fading. I think this is more to do with the yellowing of the nitro-cellulose lacquer than any change in the fountain pen ink. The top section has been masked off with a strip of plastic & duck-taped in place.

Anyway the sample is now undergoing a slightly more intensive test under a 90W LED plant light. It's not daylight simulation - it's a mixture of red, blue and yellow LEDs. Obviously the blue won't do much, but the heavy red component should further highlight any issues. The sample is in the bottom of a stainless steel bucket with the light fitting perched on top.

Anyway, the initial daylight test is encouraging. It's lost a little of it's vibrancy, but it's still quite an acceptable colour. I'll see if I can get a sample lacquered in 2k poly - maybe that won't yellow like the nitro.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Norris

[Prostheta]

Actually, I think the blue end of the spectrum is what would do "the most damage". A lot of "enthusiast" grow lamps run into the longer end of the UV part of the spectrum so you might see some degradation. Excellent test!

[ScottR]

You worked from coffee to wine huh?

It is looking very good.

SR

[Norris]

12 hours ago, ScottR said:

You worked from coffee to wine huh?

It is looking very good.

SR

In my defence, there was about 4 hours of sanding in between

[Andyjr1515]

It's looking great, Norris   That's a LOT of sanding, but the results show how worthwhile that is.  

One of my weaknesses - I tend to get impatient no matter how much coffee or wine I drink   

I'm fascinated by your colour-fastness test - it would be nice to do the same test with the same nitro on top of a 'commercial' stain.  I haven't done my samples yet, but this has given me a thought that it my own test probably will be unvarnished.  Thinking about it all my final finishes have yellowed up to some degree...

[Norris]

2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

It's looking great, Norris   That's a LOT of sanding, but the results show how worthwhile that is.  

One of my weaknesses - I tend to get impatient no matter how much coffee or wine I drink   

I'm fascinated by your colour-fastness test - it would be nice to do the same test with the same nitro on top of a 'commercial' stain.  I haven't done my samples yet, but this has given me a thought that it my own test probably will be unvarnished.  Thinking about it all my final finishes have yellowed up to some degree...

I need to do some more samples anyway, so I think I'll do some tests on un-lacquered samples to take the nitro out of the equation.

I managed to get a nice deeper blue on the ash back on one of the samples I did (I think it was a blue, sand back, red, sand back, blue attempt), but had some difficulties getting the ink right down into the more open darker grain. I need to experiment more to get a consistent finish. I'm happy with a single blue coat on the maple top as it looks gorgeous. Then I need to find a lacquer that won't yellow (or at least not as much)

Edit: Tbh, it's a lot of time spent sanding, but not a lot of material removed. Sanding such a large area on a table is almost the same as using a much finer grit. And thanks for the encouragement - the aches are slowly fading

Edited December 15, 2015 by Norris

[Norris]

I didn't do much over Christmas - I was far too busy.

I did set up another dye test of the fountain pen ink though, this time using un-lacquered samples. This has established two things: the horticultural light is a good way of testing colour-fastness, and that the Florida Blue ink I have been using is unfortunately not colour-fast. I'll post some photos tomorrow when they have had a full week under the light. The red ink that I used ("Ruby"), has virtually no sign of fading - shame I want a blue guitar and not red, but it's handy to know. I'll post the results in the thread I started in the finishing forum.

As the ink is so cheap, I'll order another couple of shades of blue and give them a test too - it might just be the Florida blue that fades.

At the weekend I refined & tweaked the neck heel & neck pocket template, then spent a few hours sanding the body. Then last night I did the round-over rout around the body back and roughly sanded it smooth. All of a sudden (in my mind anyway) I have a guitar rather than a plank of wood.

It's made it so much more tactile. The ash back graining looks so nice I'm now toying with the idea of just using a clear coat. I might stay with my original plan of translucent blue, but I don't think I'll try to dye it - the darker grain seems to repel the water-based ink. Instead I would use a blue lacquer.

I'm itching to get started on the top carve, but also to get the neck moving along. Last night's work has filled me with enthusiasm again

Edited October 15, 2017 by Norris

[Prostheta]

Back in the saddle again eh?

[ScottR]

That is very clean work......all along the build actually. You are going to end up with a very nice instrument if you keep up with this quality of work.

SR

[Andyjr1515]

6 hours ago, ScottR said:

That is very clean work......all along the build actually. You are going to end up with a very nice instrument if you keep up with this quality of work.

SR

I agree with Scott, Norris.  Very clean work indeed.

 

As a matter of interest, was the Florida blue one of the colours that the pen man you found also said was a 'fader'?

[Norris]

Thanks for the compliments chaps - very encouraging. I'm trying resist "just getting it done" and rushing things. I'm just glad that there have been no major cock-ups so far 

14 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

As a matter of interest, was the Florida blue one of the colours that the pen man you found also said was a 'fader'?

I'll check back. I'm sure I linked it somewhere. Certainly Florida Blue is out of the window now as far as I am concerned; shame as it is a very vibrant colour when fresh. I've published some results in the Inlay & Finishing forum, and will update it with tests from the three new blue colours I've ordered

[Norris]

I haven't updated this for a while so...

I had another chat with my "guru" about the bound headstock veneer. He said that he has tried it several ways: gluing/trimming/binding, trimming/gluing/binding and trimming/binding/gluing; and that he had far more success with the trimming/binding/gluing order of events. Fair enough, he's done it before and I haven't, so I'll let him guide me

Speaking of binding, that was getting to the point where it was going to start holding things up. So I got on the Rothko & Frost site & bought some nice white pearlescent celluloid binding. It's very nice in a retro-bling way. As I'm doing the body, neck & headstock I bought 2x 1.6m lengths, 10mm high, 2mm wide.

As for progress, I spent some time sorting out that top "heel" on the neck (see previous posts) and that is now trimmed away to give a cleaner area for the veneer to go on i.e. it only bends through one axis now . I have also started flattening the back of the maple fingerboard - that's going to look very nice, even with a standard grain (no flashy quilt/flame/birdseye). Finally I have also started preparing templates for some of the details on the body top.

But by 'eck it's cold in my garage right now! The UK is having a bit of a chilly time of it at the moment (although I bet a lot of you live in far colder climates!). Oh for a heated workshop, but the electricity supply is not really up to running heaters, and I don't want to use gas because it is damp enough in there already. I'll just have to dress warmly and strip off the layers as I get sanding

[Prostheta]

Good bit of rationalising on your work processes. It always helps when you can vocalise working steps prior to doing them. I have real trouble communicating the things in my head sometimes, especially when it starts working faster than I can talk/write. Or at totally the wrong time. 

[Norris]

Progress has been so slow so far this year. It seems like I haven't had two minutes to myself since before Christmas. Anyway to prove that this hasn't completely ground to a halt...

I've taken down the sides of the fretboard to the correct width for the binding. I've radiused the heel, marked it out and then last night cut the fret slots

The "customised" handle on the saw is because I had already made and popped a blister by that point. The cushioning of a few layers of masking tape helped get to the end of the board without much further pain.

I also trimmed down the binding - it's 10mm high, so I trimmed it down to 7mm ready for fixing to the board. The offcut is about 1.5mm high (and a fairly neat cut!) and might just be tall enough to do the headstock binding - we'll see in due course. It would certainly make it easier to form to the curves, being only 1.5mm thick as well.

The actual binding will probably have to wait until next week's class - they have better facilities than my cold garage with everything perched on a workmate.

Anyway, I'm happy to take my first ever board preparation as a minor milestone

Edited October 15, 2017 by Norris

[Prostheta]

I like what you came up with for the workholding and depth control. Nice bit of thinking. I'd have taped up the blister rather than the saw handle. 

Where are the classes you're taking? I know that a few schools have been dumping luthiery as a subject the last decade or so. Saddening.

[Norris]

They are not so much structured classes as regular (once a week for 2 hours) workshop time with some experts and basic luthiery tools on hand. It's a privately run class, using a school's wood workshop. It's very relaxed, you can go at your own pace and get plenty of advice. Many of the "students" have been going for years

The fret cutting jig belongs to the "class". The board is held in a tapered slot that matches most fretboard tapers i.e. approx 10mm increase in width between the nut & 12th fret positions..This then gives a square edge on the jig to get the fret slots perpendicular to the centre line when you have already tapered your board. As the slot is a bit wider than my board I packed it out with a couple of strips of plywood - which purely by chance were about 3mm when I cut them on the bandsaw (I just aimed for "thin"!). As the board is about 6mm thick, this gave me the 3mm depth that I needed to saw to. It all worked out quite well considering how well used the jig is: the top surface has MANY cuts in it, so the ply also gave me a fresh surface to cut into.

As you can also probably see from the second photo, the board has a slight twist to it. It shouldn't be a problem once it has been fixed onto the neck. It twists back into plane pretty easily with minimal finger pressure - it just doesn't want to sit flat unassisted at the moment  . I just moved my clamps as I was cutting to ensure that the part I was sawing was sitting flat at the time.