2.5itim Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 I know that this website is mostly complete builds but figured I'd post this one up. Its an old ibanez sz320 I've had for about 10 years, started refinishing it about 5 years ago and lost interest. I figured while my ground up build is going kind of slow due to money I would finish this one in my down time. I don't have a whole lot of pics thru out the refinish but you can get the idea. I rounded over the top edges of the body, I didn't have a router at the time so had to do it all by hand sanding (which is why I think I lost interest because it freaking sucked!!) reshaped the headstock last week and made a new fretboard out of bocote wood using stainless medium/jumbo frets all filed and crowned using the only file I have but it does feel nice and smooth. Taday I grain filled the body/headstock and primed/painted it. As you can see in the 4th pic my router took a good chunk out of the neck when reshaping the headstock, so I took a scrap piece of walnut and cut it to shape, glued it in, sanded to size and then wood filled it to get it all level. Thanks for looking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Here's she is untaped. Now I just need to finish it with nitro and get all the electronics wired back up. Have any of y'all done a wipe on finish using nitro? I have a can here and have been playing around with it on some scrap pieces. They haven't turned out terrible but not quite perfect. I could take some pointers here if you have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pizza Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 nice neck! eventhough it's not a complete build it's good reading anyway. There's always things to learn or get inspiration from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 On 2/7/2016 at 7:11 PM, 2.5itim said: Have any of y'all done a wipe on finish using nitro? I have a can here and have been playing around with it on some scrap pieces. They haven't turned out terrible but not quite perfect. I could take some pointers here if you have them. The first time I ever used nitro I brushed it on. the cool thing about nitro is that each coat remelts the preceding coat which ends up leaving you with one layer. This is also calling one coat burning into the other. What is important about that is you do not get any witness lines between the layers like you would with other finishes like the various poly based products. Just be sure you get enough nitro on to handle the extra leveling a wipe on finish will require. Nitro needs several weeks of cure time after the final coat to evaporate the solvents. Then level the surface by sanding through the grits and polish with micromesh or buffing and polishing compounds. It takes a bit longer but you can get the same quality of finish as if it sprayed on. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 1 hour ago, ScottR said: The first time I ever used nitro I brushed it on. the cool thing about nitro is that each coat remelts the preceding coat which ends up leaving you with one layer. This is also calling one coat burning into the other. What is important about that is you do not get any witness lines between the layers like you would with other finishes like the various poly based products. Just be sure you get enough nitro on to handle the extra leveling a wipe on finish will require. Nitro needs several weeks of cure time after the final coat to evaporate the solvents. Then level the surface by sanding through the grits and polish with micromesh or buffing and polishing compounds. It takes a bit longer but you can get the same quality of finish as if it sprayed on. SR That is great info!! I think that is what I will do for this one. Any idea on how long I should wait between my last coat of paint and first coat of laquer? The paint that I used is an acrylic enamel if that makes any difference. Ive got plenty of time so i figure I'll do 10-15 coats of laquer so I have plenty there to level and buff. I really need to buy a sprayer setup but the funds are just not there at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Also, I have seen quite a few peopl say that the bocote wood doesn't need any finish at all but I'd rather put one on it since I'll already be nitroing the rest of the body. The nitro should be a good finish for the fretboard right? I figure I'll nitro the fretboard and then cut it off the frets with a exacto knife and hope it all comes off the frets when I level and buff them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, 2.5itim said: Any idea on how long I should wait between my last coat of paint and first coat of laquer? The paint that I used is an acrylic enamel if that makes any difference. No clue. When in doubt follow the directions on the can. Fender uses nitro on their maple boards if I remember correctly. You should be able to get it off the frets without much problem. Leveling out the wipe marks between the frets will be a challenge, I'd think. You are probably aware.......but in case this is your first experience with bocote, be aware that it will darken over time. It still looks great, just different. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 The can said to allow 1 hour between paint and clear and it's been about 4 days so I should be good! Yeah I think I'm going to be cussing trying to level between the frets. This is actually my first time using bocote, well that really sucks! I chose this wood for its lightness and chose the body color according to the color of the fretboard lol. Hopefully it won't darken to much!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Putting nitro on it may actually help. Mine had danish oil on it, which darkens it a bit as it soaks in anyway. Nitro does not do that. Another cool thing about bocote is it smells like dill pickles when you sand it. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan_kara Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Brushed on nitro. Been there done that. Maybe will again. As Scott said, the beauty in Nitro is that the subsequent coats blend into each other so even if you have brushing marks, you can get away with that by just putting enough coats on and then sanding it all flat. I think I was asking @psikoT about this once when he did a similar thing and his trick was to start with really low grit, like P200 to get the finish nice and level and then to go up through the grits. Also, hit it with P200 between coats to get some of the brush marks out. 10-12 coats should be plenty. As for Nitro over frets - I did this once but with rattle-can nitro. With brush-on, getting the spaces between frets flat is going to be a nightmare. Myself I'd just oil the board with danish oil or tru-oil. In fact I have a bocote board waiting for a build right now so I will be testing this in practice in a few months hopefully :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Now that is a thought! I could just go down to woodcraft and buy a can of aerosol nitro just for the fretboard and then brush on the rest. Hmm!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I've brushed a fretboard with nitro some years ago, but it was before installing the frets. You can remove the lacquer from the frets afterwards, with steel wool (?) I don't know the name in english... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Steel wool is what we call it in English on this side of the pond. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Thanks! BTW, I wouldn't put any lacquer on that cool fretboard... I think is an unnecessary mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yep steel wool is what we call it over here! The only thing I can't get my mind around on not putting a laquer on the fretboard is how the back of the neck is going to feel where it meets the fretboard. Am I going to have a line there that you can feel? If so maybe it can be polished into a smooth transition I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I have been told that if you carefully run over your frets with a wax crayon before spraying, it makes it easier to clean them up afterwards. Obviously I've not tried it, as I'm still a little away from fretting my first board 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan_kara Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 11 hours ago, 2.5itim said: Yep steel wool is what we call it over here! The only thing I can't get my mind around on not putting a laquer on the fretboard is how the back of the neck is going to feel where it meets the fretboard. Am I going to have a line there that you can feel? If so maybe it can be polished into a smooth transition I guess. "no lacquer on fretboard" is referring to the fretboard face I guess. I'd finish the back/sides of the neck including the sides of the fretboard (covering the fretboard and the frets with masking tape). I think that's the usual way to do it, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 That's what I did when I was clearing my necks. Then I decided that I liked the feel of an oiled neck better and stopped the lacquer at the neck join and oiled everything above that. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 2 hours ago, pan_kara said: "no lacquer on fretboard" is referring to the fretboard face I guess. I'd finish the back/sides of the neck including the sides of the fretboard (covering the fretboard and the frets with masking tape). I think that's the usual way to do it, no? Ahh ok! Now that seems so much easier than what I was thinking in my head. Ok I'll do that instead then!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan_kara Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 go for it! I also prefer to oil the necks nowadays (like Scott), though every time I comment on a problem somebody and think that it doesn't apply to me I realise that it does: I actually will be facing a similar problem in a build with a glued-in neck in a body that I want to swirl - and I want the swirl to fade out onto the fretboard too. So I will have to worry about similar things - I'll have to lacquer the fretboard, I'll have to figure out what to do to not get the lacquer (and color) on the frets etc etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Brushing on the laquer was a huge mistake, there was quite a few places where my brush strokes pulled the paint off. I got it all sanded down again and am re painting it this morning. I guess I will just have to bite the bullet and go buy a spray gun and air compressor. This weekend has definitely tested my patience from screwing up this paint job and scrapping a neck on my other build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikoT Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 If you've pulled the paint off, it means that the paint didn't stick on the wood and/or it makes reaction with the nitro... please don't blame the brushing technique... ^^ Just kidding, what I mean is that you can have the same problems using spray... try to use a good paint for the base coat, maybe one which is not water based? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 The paint that I've used is acrylic lacquer, I'm not very good with paints but I'm guessing the "acrylic" means water based? I did quite a bit of research before applying it and a lot of people have said they used nitro lacquer over acrylic lacquer with no issues. On a ibanez sa series I refinished a few months ago I used acrylic laquer primer and acrylic lacquer seafoam green color then sprayed it with aerosol nitro with no problems. The green paint was also burnt so maybe this helped with adhesion?!? Idk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted February 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 I did a test piece over the last few hours, i don't know how nitro normally reacts to paint but here is what I have going on right now. Primed, painted, vinyl sealed and nitro finished just like I did on the guitar, when I apply the nitro it makes the paint wet again and I can scrape the paint right off the wood. When I apply it super wet it doesn't pull the paint off, when I put it on lightly it pulls the paint off. After applying it wet and letting it set for an hour or so the finish is rock solid. So I think as long as I spray the nitro it will turn out just fine on the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 It sounds like your acrylic lacquer is reacting just like it would if it were nitrocellulose lacquer. spraying should be fine. I wonder if there is some sort of sealer coat that could go between the paint and nitro that would allow brushing? SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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