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Nut height


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I've ordered a nut for my build and I just wanted to know if y'all think the height will work. 

My fretboard is 12* radius, 43mm width at end of 1st fret, fretboard thickness is .220" and fret wire is .055 tall. 

Nut is 12* radius, 43mm long, .312" height in the middle and .280 height at the high e. 

So the fret height is .275 and the bottom of the high e slot is .265

in my head I just can't see this working at all, am I wrong?

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I assume the nut is pre-slotted.

Are your measurements confirmed with the frets installed and the nut in position, or are you going by the manufacturers' specs only?

Depends how you're mounting the nut behind the fretboard. If the fretboard is cut straight off and the nut sits on the neck surface you may have to shim the nut up to get the nut slots higher than the fret tops.

If the nut mounting ledge behind the fretboard is yet to be cut it pays to make the ledge shallower than you need. The final adjustment of nut height can then be made by carefully sanding the underside of the nut.

All that said, it's best to sort out the nut height once strings are fitted.

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@curtisa

Correct I bought it from graphtec pre slotted, these measurements are what I'm measuring here with the frets installed and nut just sitting on the neck not glued in position with my calipers not the manufacturers specs. 

the fretboard is cut straight and the bridge will be sitting on the neck, I left myself 1/4" before the headstock starts tapering. 

How would I go about shimming the nut up higher?

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11 minutes ago, curtisa said:

Something thin and flat needs to be placed in between the neck surface and the underside of the nut. Timber veneer would be ideal.

Ok I have a bunch of walnut veneer I can use to do that. I'm guessing I just need to glue the veneer to the neck and then the nut to the veneer?

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Thanks man I really appreciate your help! 

I just put a straight edge down my frets and they are all out of whack so I think I need to buy a fret leveling block and spend some time on that before going any farther with the nut. But I will keep all of this in mind when I get that sorted. 

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@curtisa

Are your frets pretty un level before you go thru the leveling process? 

Its pretty dang bad, the straight edge will touch about every 4th or 5th fret and there's probably a 2 or 3 mm gap on the frets inbetween. 

I checked my fretboard before installing the frets and it was perfectly level before installing. 

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2 or 3 mm height variance would be huge....might it be .02" or so? Either way I've never fretted a board that didn't need leveling and have always been surprised at how much needs to come off the tops of some frets versus others. many things come into play that effect how a fret seats. It's hard to get exactly the same amount of bevel on the edge of each slot, slot depth or lack of it, how the wood itself reacts in various places on the board. A wooden board will not machine as precisely as the metal parts you are used to....nor will it stay exactly the same when you're done. No sweat. It's why leveling is a step in every build. I've heard guys say their board was so perfect that they didn't need to level the frets, but I don't see how based on my own efforts. You've still got to install the frets to exactly the same depth, 22 to 24 times across the entire width of each of them. It's quite a challenge when you think about it.

SR

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Yeah 2-3mm might be a little exadurated. It just seems like way more than I would think there should be.

im gonna stop by lowes on my way home and pick up a piece of marble to use as a leveling block. 

Do you usually start with about 220 grit and then work your way up?

2 hours ago, ScottR said:

2 or 3 mm height variance would be huge....might it be .02" or so? Either way I've never fretted a board that didn't need leveling and have always been surprised at how much needs to come off the tops of some frets versus others. many things come into play that effect how a fret seats. It's hard to get exactly the same amount of bevel on the edge of each slot, slot depth or lack of it, how the wood itself reacts in various places on the board. A wooden board will not machine as precisely as the metal parts you are used to....nor will it stay exactly the same when you're done. No sweat. It's why leveling is a step in every build. I've heard guys say their board was so perfect that they didn't need to level the frets, but I don't see how based on my own efforts. You've still got to install the frets to exactly the same depth, 22 to 24 times across the entire width of each of them. It's quite a challenge when you think about it.

SR

 

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I personally level with 320, just so I'll less to polish out after crowning........although after crowning, I start the polishing with 220 and work on up. so I'm not so sure my rationale for 320 is valid. Leveling will leave scratches running across the frets which you'll feel during a bend if not completely removed, and crowning and polishing normally goes along the length, so maybe it's not a bad idea after all.

Sorry, that's probably more answer than that simple question requires.:D

SR

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Yep, I don't reckon anyone has installed frets and avoided levelling them. It's just part of the standard process that gets undertaken when building any guitar.

Check your neck for levelness after installing the frets too. Inserting the frets can introduce a slight backbow as the tangs are squeezed into the fret slots, and may require a slight tweak of the trussrod. Only level the frets after checking everything is straight.

I level at 320 - 400 grit, crown with a diamond grit file, polish after crowning starting at 400 grit working up to 2000, and then buff.

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I got them leveled this evening, there were 2 or 3 that I had to take down a pretty good ways. I need to order a crowning file but I don't thing I'm gonna crown and polish them until after I apply the laquer finish that way I can get all the lacquer off the frets at that time. 

one last thing, is there any sort of standard measurement that the bottom of the slot on the nut needs to be above the 1st fret?

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1 hour ago, curtisa said:

Ideally it will be the equivalent of the gap under the string at the second fret if you depress the string at the first. It's not something that can be planned for easily, and has to be fine tuned when slotting/seating the nut with strings on under full tension.

Ok, I don't have a bridge on the guitar right now so I can't do that just yet. Because of that I'm gonna take a step back from the nut for a moment and focus on the bridge and tuners. 

im actually trying to figure out where to mount my bridge on this thing and maybe y'all could help me with that if you don't mind! It's a 25.5" scale with a Hipshot non tremolo bridge, I've searched all over Google and can't find anything, I did find stewmacs fret position calculator which gives measurements for all sorts of bridges but not one for the Hipshot. Would I simply just measure out 25.5" from the edge of the fretboard where the nut would sit to the edge of the saddle on the bridge where the string will sit?

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Wind the outer saddles as far forward as possible minus say, 1/4 of a turn on the intonation screws. The string breakpoint of the most-forward saddles should be positioned 25.5" from the nut along the string trajectory. You'll find that in order to intonate every string properly 99% of the time you'll only need to wind the saddle back from this position. That method should work with just about any bridge, rather than relying on some calculator that says the mounting holes should be 17/64" less than the scale length.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 25/2/2016 at 0:45 PM, 2.5itim said:

Ok I have a bunch of walnut veneer I can use to do that. I'm guessing I just need to glue the veneer to the neck and then the nut to the veneer?

nup - use CA glue nut to the veneer and then trim it back to the nut using an exacto scalpel

when you fit the nut to the slot do not put any glue underneath.it only goes on the back of the nut where it touches the fingerboard end grain.. If its a fender style slot, a little glue on front and back bottom edge only. You want that nut to pop out easily if you need it to. Last thing you want is a nut glued securely to the bottom of the slot.

Best glue is wood glue either titebond or white PVA. you're just packing the nut in nice and tight with that glue. Think of the next guy who has to take out the nut. He'll hate you if its glued onto the floor of the slot. If it pops out easy he'll think hmm a pro put this together.

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