ES2 - Big LP and LP4

[Crusader]

9 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

First, that scoop makes the build look so much more top drawer! No one can see it but you know it's there - and it can change the resonance.

Based on the theories learned from RSW mandolin builds I guess you won't get a true acoustic sound out of that guitar unless you cut a hole on the top to let the sound out! Further, there's most likely some proven wisdom behind the traditional size and location of the sound hole(s) to get the most out of it. Simplified, the top should be resonant and the bottom should be stiff and scooped like a parabolic mirror so it directs the sound waves to a single spot i.e. the sound hole.

Hey thanks, yes I think it looks better too and hope it has a beneficial effect on sound. BTW I'm not concerned how it sounds accoustically but through an amp. I have thought about putting f-holes in it but the last one I made didn't improve anything by having them. The idea is it looks like a Les Paul but can also sound like an accoustic

So today the Acousti-phonic Kit arrived YaY! I was off to do a quote and I saw the Fedex van going past so I did an illegal lane change on the roundabout and headed back home again. The first thing I noticed, it has the summing board for the basic kit. I'm pretty sure you don't need it for the preamp

 

So here's another thing I've done, my plan with this project is to be fully hollow but when I was scooping out the maple top I was looking at the straight 'bars' thinking I could glue something on there. I saw an opportunity to experiment with a Centre-Block because it might help get away from that "too much maple" sound (I think its generally called 'nasal') I have timber from an old bed which my Dad says is Oregon but to me it looks like Cedar. But either way I think this wood must be 100 years old. So I cut off a length and fashioned it to fit in the guitar and I am really impressed with the result from doing this

I can't decide whether to use this or keep the idea for a future project, it will take more sound testing before I make up my mind. It gives the guitar a more 'crisp' sound

 

 

The drawback of course is the weight, an extra couple of pounds makes it on par with the '59 Reissue

 

[Andyjr1515]

Ref your questions about the ghost acousti-phonic 'pre-amp', it is designed to allow a number of things to  be done:

- first, as @mistermikev says, it is designed to make it possible to use one jack for both your magnetic pickups and your piezo pickups, either separately or together.  The type of output from a piezo is very different to the type of output from a magnetic pickup.  The acousti-phonic converts the two signals so that they are compatible with one another

- it is also possible to split the two signals to feed into two amplifiers with a stereo-jack-plug-to-two-mono-jack-sockets splitter cable

- a piezo bridge on what is essentially a solid electric guitar will not sound like an acoustic guitar.  It can sound fine, but it will not sound like an acoustic guitar, even if played through an acoustic guitar amplifier and even if the body of the guitar is significantly chambered.  So the next thing the acousti-phonic does is make it sound like an acoustic guitar (in the same way that the Boss AC-2 Acoustic Simulator pedal does).

- For the piezo signal, the Acousti-phonic also provides some options of the volume and a on-off tone change of the acoustic simulated sound

And yes, you are right that if you have two separate jack outputs, one for the magnetic pickups and one for the piezos, then, technically, you don't need a preamp - you can feed a piezo output directly into an amplifier.  However, all the adjustments of volume and tone will need to be done at the amplifier - which might be fine.

Hope this helps

 

[Bizman62]

20 hours ago, Crusader said:

BTW I'm not concerned how it sounds accoustically but through an amp.

Ahh, in that case it might be better to leave the top closed.

[Crusader]

17 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Ahh, in that case it might be better to leave the top closed.

Yes and avoid the hassles of holes in the top, unless there is a benefit for the way I want to use it

 

18 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Ref your questions about the ghost acousti-phonic 'pre-amp',.........

...........a piezo bridge on what is essentially a solid electric guitar will not sound like an acoustic guitar.......So the next thing the acousti-phonic does is make it sound like an acoustic guitar (in the same way that the Boss AC-2 Acoustic Simulator pedal does)

Hope this helps

Yes that is an explanation which nails it, thank you!

[Crusader]

This Big Les Paul project has become a comedy of contradictions. In the beginning I had a set of rules, it had to look like an LP (ie. no f-holes) have 24 3/4" scale length....and a bunch of things like that

But as I progressed through the build I found I couldn't stick to the rules, for example the 24 3/4" scale would mean the bridge wouldn't be where it's supposed to be, unless I joined at the 14th fret. I decided in the end to have 666mm scale because of a comment my Landlord's daughter made. So it joins at the 15th fret, which is the 14th fret from the first fret ie. 14th fret of the 24 3/4 scale. So with the 666 scale the idea is to tune to D but as it turns out its too boomy. Tuning to Eb is good but the fret markers do my head in. Tuned to E is great for playing Accoustic, its loud and punchy, really brightens things up and markers are all in the right place

Now I'm contemplating the Centre-block which seems to sparkle things up in both electric and accoustic mode. But it makes it impossible to work on the electrics. So I could put in some f-holes...

.....Nnnnoooooo I don't want f-holes!!! dammit!!!!! 

[ScottR]

On 3/15/2022 at 9:53 AM, Crusader said:

.....Nnnnoooooo I don't want f-holes!!! dammit!!!!! 

I suppose a rear access is out of the question?

SR

[Bizman62]

10 hours ago, ScottR said:

I suppose a rear access is out of the question?

And what happened to the full size back panel idea?

[Crusader]

12 hours ago, ScottR said:

I suppose a rear access is out of the question?

SR

Not at all because of the rule that it should look like a Les Paul. Its just that as I've gone along I decided it will be more accoustic

 

1 hour ago, Bizman62 said:

And what happened to the full size back panel idea?

Ah,,,,I think thats in the too-hard basket!

 

On 3/12/2022 at 8:33 PM, Andyjr1515 said:

Ref your questions about the ghost acousti-phonic 'pre-amp',

 

Its occurred to me that even accoustic guitars have a preamp and a battery

 

So, my latest thoughts on the Centre-block is to leave it out because it needs to be built-in from the start to get best benefit from. Glued end to end and neck morticed into it etc. And Scott you've got me thinking.....I might just go ahead and put control covers in the back, it would make it so much easier!

[Bizman62]

1 minute ago, Crusader said:

2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

And what happened to the full size back panel idea?

Ah,,,,I think thats in the too-hard basket!

What about two halves?

I already saw why that's not an option, the horn would be difficult to get right...

Just as food for thought, by no means saying that this would be the optimal solution:

[ScottR]

Also, you might be able to make side wall access panels work. Not ideal but surely no more difficult than trying to work though an f hole....

SR

[Andyjr1515]

4 hours ago, Crusader said:

Its occurred to me that even accoustic guitars have a preamp and a battery

Well, yes, they do but the difference is that on an acoustic it is more about balance and EQ, while the electronics in the Acousti-phonic actually creates the emulated sound of an acoustic guitar.

[Crusader]

5 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

What about two halves?

I already saw why that's not an option, the horn would be difficult to get right...

Just as food for thought, by no means saying that this would be the optimal solution:

Not sure what you're suggesting exactly, the Centre-block doesn't make contact with the back at all but in any case I've decided not to go with the centre-block

 

1 hour ago, ScottR said:

Also, you might be able to make side wall access panels work. Not ideal but surely no more difficult than trying to work though an f hole....

SR

Yes I've been thinking I would probably like to have two outputs and a battery compartment. So with those and the pickup wells there would be plenty of access to the inside. Since my last comments I've gone against the usual LP control covers because the back is too thin

I'm still not sure how I'm going to wire up the Piezo but one thing's for sure I would like to have the option of separating the mags in case of a flat battery

Much appreciating the ideas, cheers!

[Bizman62]

15 hours ago, Crusader said:

Not sure what you're suggesting exactly, the Centre-block doesn't make contact with the back at all but in any case I've decided not to go with the centre-block

Oh, the idea was to cut the red pieces out of the bottom itself and attach them with screws or magnets while the rest of the bottom would be glued in. But since you're not going to use the centre-block it won't work as such. I thought the block could be used to support the detachable parts of the bottom.

Yet another idea would be to cut large enough holes to the bottom, put some cleats in and attach the cut pieces to the cleats.

That said, if you can make it through the pickup holes that would make the neatest looking guitar.

[Crusader]

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

.....That said, if you can make it through the pickup holes that would make the neatest looking guitar.

Yes finding the right balance between accoustic and electric is driving me crazy. I'm constantly deciding one way then flipping to the opposite

The most recent decision is where to have the battery. Tonight I almost decided to have control covers and disregard what I said in previous comments, it is thick enough to cope with them. But then I picked it up and did a tap-tone and it sounded so nice I thought no way! One thing for sure is I don't want to have to take pickups out to change the battery. On the previous build (My ES) I put the battery box near the outputs, and one time I put it on the stand it clicked the tab and the battery fell out. So on this one I think I will put the box on the top edge same as my Songwriter

But.....

[Crusader]

.....it won't be like a Les Paul 

Well putting that dilemma aside for the moment, I've got the pickups all wired up with two jacks, one is stereo for Piezo-and-magnetic and the other is magnetic-only. Now problem here is I don't have a stereo lead. The piezo is connected to the "ring" of the stereo output.....but it still works! How on earth can this be? Without a stereo input jack, the Hot and Ground of the piezo are both going to ground. This is the sort of thing ya Google the crap out of but get no answers. Anyone got ideas how it is working?

[Crusader]

Ha! I managed to find the right terminology to Google and found this

"...blends when a mono cable is plugged in..."

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/piezo-for-strat-–-recommendations.101838/

 

[Crusader]

Got the battery box in recently and I'm quite happy with it. Some accoustic guitars have controls in this position so its nothing weird and the back remains intact

With this and the dual output jacks I will have good access to all the controls

 

 

[Bizman62]

Looks very factory built (in a good way) with that battery box!

[Crusader]

On 3/29/2022 at 1:03 AM, Bizman62 said:

Looks very factory built (in a good way) with that battery box!

Yes it certainly looks like its meant to be there!

So I have got some progress in past couple of days and decided what to do about a Centre-Block. I thought about one that stops just after the tail-piece but in the end decided to just replace the Neck Block which I never liked anyway. The first NEW one I made was too sloppy so I flattened the tenon. I'm going to be very patient with the second one, I ran out of time this afternoon but its looking good. Let the pictures tell the story!

 

 

 

 

[ScottR]

How did you get the chisel to pose for the picture like that?

SR

[Bizman62]

^^ exactly!!! BANG! "Hey, it stuck, where's my camera?"

[Crusader]

LMAO - that's exactly what happened Bizman!

 

So continuing with the build I finally got the Neck Block in. When I unclamped it I realised I should have used 3 of them. I spent a lot of time to get it to fit nicely only to end up with a slight gap along the cutaway edge. Oh well the only thing I'm concerned about is if it causes any rattles

Photos show some other interesting things

 

 

[Crusader]

I don't know why we do this, its a bit like "hey Ma look at me" showing the whole world what we do in our back yard. Nevertheless I shall continue to give away my secret information, thoughts and brain-farts

So the latest decision I've made is to ditch the Queensland Maple back for this project because it won't make contact with the new Neck Block. I don't know if that is completely necessary but I'd rather use it on a project using all Qld Maple

 

Put aside for another project

 

I had a piece of mahogany in the shed, I don't know why I didn't use it in the first place

The second photo here shows bits of information that might not be relevant to this project but might be to a future one

ie. The tap-tone is currently A2#-30 cents

What I've found so far (or it seems) The Balance line becomes the nodal line once the neck is attached, and this is pretty much where the bridge is placed

 

 

I had a problem with a piece of equipment, a speed controller that a friend gave me about 5 years ago, now Ich denke es ist kaputt

Without it the router sounds like a small aircraft about to take off so I had to do something and it was "NRD" New Router Day!

 

 

So now I am able to continue my mad search for tone without the neighbours needing to know all about it

 

At first I routed it just on its own but then I decided it should be closer to the right size and attached the template with strategically placed screws

 

 

At this point I decided its too flat and want to get more shape out of it. I went round the edge to the thickness I'm happy with, about 4.5mm

....oh sorry, 3/16th

and that's the story so far

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Crusader
missing info

[Bizman62]

Hehe, a German carve... Just kidding, I know why you did that!

[Crusader]

13 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Hehe, a German carve... Just kidding, I know why you did that!

Entschuldigen? (ha ha) I just like using the word "kaputt"

I had no idea I'd done a German carve until I googled just now, just a coincidence and wanna know something else? I got a new speed controller (as well as a new router) that is made in Germany (Kemo electronic)

By the way the "German carve" is just the first run around the edge in the process of shaping the back. It will eventually be the same as the Qld maple

Edited April 8, 2022 by Crusader