rx2man Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 Hello, 1st post, 1st guitar build...I picked up the https://thefretwire.com/collections/diy-guitar-kits/products/diy-electric-guitar-kit-singlecut-mahogany-style-build-your-own-guitar-kit Has the mahogany body and flame maple top...and yes I realize quilted and flame are different. But my question is what to do to duplicate the the finish...pic is attached...it looks like there was no black dye sand back and just red and yellow with a orangy blending of the 2 between the red and yellow...but inam not sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 Sorry it does look like black was used around the edges...I've watched various videos on burst finishes but this is different from the typical that you see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 There's several ways to do a burst. One is to apply stain on bare wood, another is to spray alcohol based stain over wet lacquer. A mix of the two is also possible. And of course there's both water based that blend and spirit based stains which don't blend. Oh, and to stir it up even more, stain and dye can or can not mean the same depending on who's talking and which side of the pond! Anyhow, as you said there's no black dye sand back. But it may well be red dye sanded back and it may well be a different red than the burst. Some scrap piece testing should definitely be done before attacking the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 Were it me, I'd dye the whole thing that dark orange and sand that back. Then I'd dye the whole thing that yellow. I'd spray a couple of coats of clear lacquer and lightly level them--knock the tops off the orange peel. Then I'd mix up a tint for the burst. Orange dye mixed with alcohol and then mixed with lacquer. I'd spray it with an airbrush, but a good detail gun can be used to good effect as well. Heavy on the edges fading to nothing in the middle. For the darkest edges I'd add burgundy to the orange tint. And as a last resort a drop of black if the very edge needs to be darker. Then bury that under 12 - 20 coats of clear lacquer. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 Thank you for the replies...seems there is more to that finish than simply blending from red to yellow...and applying a clear coat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, rx2man said: seems there is more to that finish than simply blending from red to yellow...and applying a clear coat You can do that as well. Apply that dark orange (spirit based) and sand it back. Apply the yellow (water based) and blend the red (water based). And apply a clear coat. I may have missed a step or three but that's how I figure it could be done as well as how @ScottR described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Bizman62 said: You can do that as well. Apply that dark orange (spirit based) and sand it back. Apply the yellow (water based) and blend the red (water based). And apply a clear coat. I may have missed a step or three but that's how I figure it could be done as well as how @ScottR described. Absolutely. And you can wipe on and blend the various colors all water based or all alcohol based too. And you can spray the dyes on as well to get smooth blends. I've tryed them all and what I mentioned earlier is just what I'd do these days. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 Again thanks for the help, I don't know if that is good photography but the image looks alive and like it's on fire almost...maybe as the yellow is so bright and a lot of clear? This is a $10k custom les paul. It's just a sick guitar finish..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 And going to a different site has it listed as a heritage cherry sunburst.. https://www.google.com/shopping/product/1?q=les+paul+custom+burst&start=20&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&biw=360&bih=640&tbs=vw:g,ss:44&prmd=sivn&sxsrf=ALeKk00jTg1rJpY160AdYDluQfcjuun83g:1607111315492&prds=num:1,of:1,eto:293332455520981708_0,prmr:1,pid:293332455520981708,cs:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 When I look at the other HC sunburst it looks like they have that antique clear with a little tint in it...gives them a browner hue that this one does not have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 All of that. You can almost be sure there is no dye and sand back. The commercial companies don't spend the time to do that as far as I know. but the things you can be sure of is the wood is a very high end piece that has been well prepared. The dye work and tint (my eyes says the burst is a tint layer) is superb and the clear thick and polished to within an inch of its life. And most of all it is lit and photographed to get the maximum effect. Light intensity and angle are a huge factor in how figured maple looks. I've got one that looks navy blue in room lighting. But in the sun or under a focused light it is turquoise in the center to royal blue to purple to black. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 4, 2020 Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 By looking at the knobs, binding and inlays I'd even say that aside good lighting there's also quite some photo manipulation involved. The orange is very saturated and if you look at the tail block and bridge they have an orange hue as well. All chrome parts look like worn out. The vol and tone knobs which I believe should look like brass also look weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 Well it is all good to know, that even if I nailed it exactely right it would not look like that. The lighting it is under in the photograph has altered it so much. As well as that being a very nice piece of wood. But knowing that I am after that look I cannot replicate the traditional cherry sunburst. I really appreciate the feedback...i made tobacco briar and bamboo pipes in the past and love working with wood so I can't wait to get this project going. But I needed to know what was going on in the photograph... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2020 One of the pipes I made ebonizing to get the contrast.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Just to show you how what can be done with just a couple of simple tricks. Notice that I was very sloppy with the outlining, I obviously don't have all the plugins in my Paint.net: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADFinlayson Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Check out Freddy's Frets on youtube, his les paul build series is excellent and he shows most of the finishing process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 On 12/4/2020 at 4:39 PM, rx2man said: Well it is all good to know, that even if I nailed it exactly right it would not look like that. You can get there. this is one of mine in both direct sunlight and indirect sunlight. Granted it is an excellent piece of wood and a pretty good finishing job, but it can be done. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 That's crazy with the lighting....will check out Freddy's frets and Scott R that is an awsome finish on it...REALLY like that... makes ya wanna eat it, it's tasty lookin lol....that is a finish I would like to pull off. Do you have a build thread for that guitar?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 You can really see how the light brings out the lighter tones.... And guys i have to say this is a great forum!!! Very helpful to a total noob and it really is appreciated...i did my research before asking a bunch of stupid questions that have been answered a 100 times already but just coukd not figure out what was going on with thst particular guitars finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 I am sure this has been said a hundred times but guitars really are a piece of art. If they were not we would all be playing on a square piece of wood painted black...something Henry Ford would have liked lol.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rx2man Posted December 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Subscribed to freddy's frets...i have seen a lot of guitar build and finishing videos on YT but I had not seen FF.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 On 12/5/2020 at 11:06 AM, rx2man said: That's crazy with the lighting....will check out Freddy's frets and Scott R that is an awsome finish on it...REALLY like that... makes ya wanna eat it, it's tasty lookin lol....that is a finish I would like to pull off. Do you have a build thread for that guitar?? Here you go: And thanks, glad you like it SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 12 layer sandwich (IIRC), counting clear coats as 2 of 12 because there are two separate 'sections' of clear. Several layers directly onto bare wood, clearcoated and leveled, then several shader coats on top of the leveled finish. And there is sandback, but it's not black. Why does everyone always think sandback has to be black? That has always mystified me, I use all kinds of colors for sandbacks. And that bookmatched top cost me +/- $25.00. It wasn't much to look at raw, which I have pics of. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 This top I almost got for free, it was nearly a throaway set to the seller because the flame only went halfway. If you saw it in the raw, you would probably have agreed. I said fine, give it to me and I'll show you what you can do with a throaway set. I think $15.00 plus shipping. Yes, the wood is important, but what you can do with it is far more important. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 OK, I think I did pay about $50.00 for this set. This was done with (probably) the same basic colorset as the first pic. I don't think 12 layers, probably 7-8 using the same basic recipe. If you can't tell, I love southwestern and what I call 'Cowboy Sunset' color schemes. Didn't do such a hot job on the final buffout, see all those finishing scratches on the bottom of the pic? Bad Drak, Baaad... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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