Ibanez S540 LTD Rebuild Advice

[axegarden]

Hello all i'm a short time lurker since i've decided to rebuild a guitar of mine, so I figured this is the place to come for expert advice. I have a 1992 Ibanez S540 LTD in Jem Blue that has been a great friend of mine through the years, but i think it needs to be reincarnated. It acquired a bad chip on the body that opened a hole all the way to the wood. Once I could see the wood grain underneath I came to like it, and I've decided to refinish and remake it with new electronics and hardware. I've always wanted to build a guitar from the body up, and luckily I have the tools and resources to do it at this point in my life.

I've occasionally followed guitar rebuilds (over my 15 year guitar career) but my experience goes no further than replacing a pickup. I came here in hopes that I can find good vendors/resources for the dye and finishing materials and instructions, new hardware, and new pots and switch etc. I know of Rich's Ibanez Rules site of course, and I figure that's a good source for factory parts, but I feel attracted to matte black hardware and I don't think he would have such things.

My idea is to dye the body blue and replace the ancient, corroded hardware with new black hardware, knobs, bridge, etc. (Sadly the original Lo Pro Edge trem has a cracked arm around one of the pivot points. It has functioned for me just fine, but since I've already started disassembly, I found the arm is completely broken and I figure I should cut my losses here). I love transparent finishes and wood grains so I'd like to highlight the grain somehow. I saw a youtube video where a metallic something was rubbed in after a dark stain had been applied - I figure I'd like to do something like this to highlight grain depth. The Wizard neck also has some minor crack situation around both sides of the first fret, almost looking like the fretboard is separating. I'd like to clean that up too.

Anyway - does anyone have vendor suggestions? Techniques? Colors? Hardware? I would really appreciate it!

[curtisa]

I'd be tempted to continue gently chipping the original blue finish off as much as possible - it seems to be flaking off fairly cleanly from around the exposed area anyway. Sanding the remainder off with a good quality random orbital sander would certainly get rid of the bulk of it quickly, switching to hand sanding for the more delicate/difficult parts (cutaways, body edges etc), but you'd need to be careful that you don't take things too far and accidentally start reshaping the bare wood. Removing the paint around things like the pickup cavity walls and that jack socket will be fun, though - chemical strippers on those areas only perhaps? It will be messy and you'll need to take your time, but I think it's doable.

The only real hiccup I can foresee is that Ibanez, like many other manufacturers, are known for using pretty robust grain sealer coats on the bare wood to help level the body in preparation for the paint coats to be applied over the top. Unless you get rid of every last vestige of this sealer coat your blue dye is likely to look blotchy or not penetrate evenly into the wood.

The original S540LTD appears to have been made with a mahogany body, so you might find that there isn't much figuring to enhance with dyes. Assuming you manage to get your dye to soak in evenly I'd expect the finished product to look more like this:

Rather than this:

Assuming Ibanez Rules is still active (there was a period where the website was shut down a while back), they'd certainly be a good place to source compatible parts for your build. The cheaper components (knobs, screws, pickup rings etc) can be found everywhere so there's not necessarily a burning need to pay for genuine Ibanez parts if you don't need to. I have a feeling that the Lo-pro Edge is discontinued, so you may have to settle with buying a reclaimed unit that may not necessarily be in the most perfect cosmetic shape. Maybe Rich can get near-new units? The other thing about the Lo-pro Edge is that it I think it may be a one-of-a-kind bridge; the dimensions and specs are particular enough that only another Lo-pro Edge will drop straight in. Replacing it with another bridge, if that was something you were considering, may not be possible without significant surgery.

Post some pictures of the cracked area on the neck and then people here can have a look and make some suggestions.

[Drak]

8 hours ago, axegarden said:

My idea is to dye the body blue

Blue-dyed Mahogany can be really attractive if it's done right.

To 'do it right', you first bleach the wood and get it as pale as possible using 2-part Kleen-Strip wood bleach.

Then your blue will appear a nice blue and not some weird blech-blue due to the natural brown of the Mahogany affecting the blue (and it will).

Bring your YT link here and post it about whatever you saw that you liked.

I can most likely break it down for you and ascertain whether its a reasonably viable option for your guitar.

The first thing I would recommend you do is go find a scrap piece of genuine Mahogany somewhere to do dry runs on.

Doesn't have to be very big, just the same type of wood you want to work on, which is Mahogany here.

About vendors techniques and colors, where do you live? Can you buy materials/products online?

[Gogzs]

I'm bad at finishes, so I'll leave that to others, but I really love the S series and depending on where you live and what you can order, this could turn out epic.

Thomann has the Low Pro Edge in stock, in black/chrome/gold, a bit on the expensive side (around 220 EUR) so there's that. But if just one pole is broken, and the bridge itself is actually fine otherwise, I'm sure you'll be able to find those as spare parts. 

I assume if you find these, you'll be able to salvage the rest? Google: Floyd ROse Mounting Studs, and find a shop in your region that has them, should be easy to find.

As for the pickups, I'd go with Dimarzio Tone Zone for the bridge, Dimarzio Air Norton for the neck, and Dimarzio True Velvet in the middle. This is the configuration they have on the prestige models, and it's a really pretty sounding combo. You should be able to reuse the switch, and as for pods, get some nice 500k ones. Wiring diagrams can be found online easy (just google Ibanez HSH 5 way switch wiring diagram). As for tuners, with the locking nut in place and the fine tuners on the bridge, I wouldn't go too crazy with them as long as they get the job done. 

And if you take better pics of the neck and the issues it has around the first frets, I'm sure someone here will be able to help you with it as well.

On top of the hardware changes, level and recrown the frets (looks like there's enough meat on them), and finish it according to what some of the more experienced folks here are suggesting. You should end up with one damn fine S Series guitar. Best of luck  

[axegarden]

17 hours ago, curtisa said:

I'd be tempted to continue gently chipping the original blue finish off as much as possible - it seems to be flaking off fairly cleanly from around the exposed area anyway. Sanding the remainder off with a good quality random orbital sander would certainly get rid of the bulk of it quickly, switching to hand sanding for the more delicate/difficult parts (cutaways, body edges etc), but you'd need to be careful that you don't take things too far and accidentally start reshaping the bare wood. Removing the paint around things like the pickup cavity walls and that jack socket will be fun, though - chemical strippers on those areas only perhaps? It will be messy and you'll need to take your time, but I think it's doable.

 Ibanez, like many other manufacturers, are known for using pretty robust grain sealer coats on the bare wood to help level the body in preparation for the paint coats to be applied over the top. Unless you get rid of every last vestige of this sealer coat your blue dye is likely to look blotchy or not penetrate evenly into the wood.

The original S540LTD appears to have been made with a mahogany body, so you might find that there isn't much figuring to enhance with dyes. Assuming you manage to get your dye to soak in evenly I'd expect the finished product to look more like this:

 I have a feeling that the Lo-pro Edge is discontinued, so you may have to settle with buying a reclaimed unit that may not necessarily be in the most perfect cosmetic shape. 

Post some pictures of the cracked area on the neck and then people here can have a look and make some suggestions.

Yeah it does seem to chip easily, i think i'm going to try the heat gun method to get the rest off, then use an orbital sander to sand it down to fresh wood. I noticed some weird texture under the neck pickup which isn't under the bridge pickup, don't know how what it is (pic included). Can I keep the existing blue finish under the tremelo? That area seems like a pain in the arse to redo. How do I know when I've sanded through the sealer coat? Apply water to look for blotches? 

I'm actually pretty excited to stain the mahogany, I know it's not as nice as a figured top but it'll do for me. I took better pics of mahogany top that shows through the hole in the finish. I'm not all sure about the logic behind using (or layering) water-based stains vs. alcohol vs. oil or sanding certain coats and "grain filling" etc. That seems like the proprietary part of the industry and is never presented as "standard practices" and whatnot, it's different according to who is doing it. 

I love the lo-pro edge bridge, I wouldn't want to change it. I'm going to hate paying $250-350 for one, but I think it's worth it. I'm attracted to matte black hardware, so I'd like to find the "Powder Cosmo" finish, but it'll be expensive. I think the stock bride is "cosmo black", but i'd at least like to find the "black" if I can. Do you - or anyone here - recommend a vendor selling matte black hardware?

It's a pain in the butt to resize pictures so I'll post more pics soon. Thanks for your help/reply!

 

[axegarden]

12 hours ago, Drak said:

Blue-dyed Mahogany can be really attractive if it's done right.

To 'do it right', you first bleach the wood and get it as pale as possible using 2-part Kleen-Strip wood bleach.

Then your blue will appear a nice blue and not some weird blech-blue due to the natural brown of the Mahogany affecting the blue (and it will).

Bring your YT link here and post it about whatever you saw that you liked.

I can most likely break it down for you and ascertain whether its a reasonably viable option for your guitar.

The first thing I would recommend you do is go find a scrap piece of genuine Mahogany somewhere to do dry runs on.

Doesn't have to be very big, just the same type of wood you want to work on, which is Mahogany here.

About vendors techniques and colors, where do you live? Can you buy materials/products online?

I have confidence it'll like great, if I 'do it right', lol. I've spent maybe 8 hours watching/reading videos of staining (almost always on figured [maple] tops though) and I haven't heard of bleaching the wood - is that typical for mahogany staining? I've learned that the color of the woods will effect the color of stains, so I guess i should accommodate  that. I'd like to play with the "Northern lights" color scheme, which includes a layer of red/pink below the blue(s). I'm definitely going to find some mahogany to practice with. 

I found this vid at the beginnings of my research, as I was searching for ways to accentuate the contrast in wood grains. Since then I think it would be better to do a black stain first, sand it, and then apply colors. This seems to be a common way to increase contrast in the grain. I'm also leaning toward having a purple in the center (around all the cavities) which blends into a nicely saturated royal blue for the rest of the axe. black hardware. It should look mmm sxy. 

I've found videos (and channels) like this to be helpful, this vid has a nice color to aim for, and his channel is great. 

I live in a rural area of Virginia. I would prefer to order my supplies but I could probably find good vendors around D.C.. Thanks for your help!

Here are some additional pics, of the headstock crack

[axegarden]

7 hours ago, Gogzs said:

I'm bad at finishes, so I'll leave that to others, but I really love the S series and depending on where you live and what you can order, this could turn out epic.

Thomann has the Low Pro Edge in stock, in black/chrome/gold, a bit on the expensive side (around 220 EUR) so there's that. But if just one pole is broken, and the bridge itself is actually fine otherwise, I'm sure you'll be able to find those as spare parts. 

I assume if you find these, you'll be able to salvage the rest? Google: Floyd ROse Mounting Studs, and find a shop in your region that has them, should be easy to find.

As for the pickups, I'd go with Dimarzio Tone Zone for the bridge, Dimarzio Air Norton for the neck, and Dimarzio True Velvet in the middle. This is the configuration they have on the prestige models, and it's a really pretty sounding combo. You should be able to reuse the switch, and as for pods, get some nice 500k ones. Wiring diagrams can be found online easy (just google Ibanez HSH 5 way switch wiring diagram). As for tuners, with the locking nut in place and the fine tuners on the bridge, I wouldn't go too crazy with them as long as they get the job done. 

And if you take better pics of the neck and the issues it has around the first frets, I'm sure someone here will be able to help you with it as well.

On top of the hardware changes, level and recrown the frets (looks like there's enough meat on them), and finish it according to what some of the more experienced folks here are suggesting. You should end up with one damn fine S Series guitar. Best of luck  

I'm eyeing a Cosmo Black on thomann but at $266 I'm hesitant....I want matte black hardware so ideally I would get a Powdered Cosmo, but the only one I can find is a new one on IbanezRules for $360  The Cosmo black isn't very black, So I would at least like the actual "Black" instead @ $300 ... AHH i don't know what to do about the trem yet. The crack on the existing bridge is actually in the arm that holds those mounting studs. It's a real shame because it's in pretty decent shape otherwise, considering age. 

That's a great pickup combo. It sounds familiar, I think Petrucci used Air nortons? The stock pickups don't sound bad, so I think I'll only get new ones if I really want a "new" guitar. The pots have been scratchy so I'll definitely get new electronics. 

I didn't think of the fact that the tuners need not be "nice" since the strings will be secured with the locking nut! Good idea there, thank you. I want to find matte black everything. You think the frets need some love? I've always liked the action on this guitar so that frightens me. What's the benefit? I'd have to research techniques/practices. BUT the double shark fin inlays in the fretboard have ALWAYS bugged me. It seems that there were gaps between the inlays and the fretboard, as if they weren't cut precisely, and the resin/glue stuff is raised above the surface of the fretboard. This little detail, which doesn't effect my playing, has always bugged me. Anyone have suggestions on how to fix that? 

[axegarden]

Here's pics of the cavities. Does anyone know what this black texture is under the neck pickup? Or if I can leave the finish under the tremelo? or do I have to suffer through sanding that out?

[Bizman62]

1 hour ago, axegarden said:

It's a pain in the butt to resize pictures

There's a couple of easy methods. One is to use the Snipping Tool included in Windows. Simply crop what you want and paste it directly to the post. For even smaller pictures I've used Image Resizer: https://www.bricelam.net/ImageResizer/

AFA the pickup cavities, the black in the neck PU cavity looks like standard shielding paint which basically is graphite and glue, the bridge PU cavity looks like it hasn't been masked before applying the multiple layers of various paints.

Aluminium can be welded so asking a small metal working shop to do some magic might be worth it.

[axegarden]

1 hour ago, Bizman62 said:

AFA the pickup cavities, the black in the neck PU cavity looks like standard shielding paint which basically is graphite and glue, the bridge PU cavity looks like it hasn't been masked before applying the multiple layers of various paints.

Aluminium can be welded so asking a small metal working shop to do some magic might be worth it.

Thanks for the resizing tips. Can I line the inside with aluminum sheeting to have the same effect?

[Drak]

I wouldn't buy a single thing until you've drawn up your plan. Plan? Oh, hell yes, a plan, and that's not all. Start a .doc and make a list of every single piece of whatever you think you need to buy and start costing it all out. And start an order of operations, get it down on paper. Baggying up all the parts and labelling the bags, stripping, dying, finishing, assemblying, how does it all fit together? What goes where and when and why. Get it down on paper, it will force your brain to start coming up with answers. And you need those answers, believe me you do.

I can do it all in my head, but I've done it hundreds of times, you haven't. My projects (usually) lead to successful outcomes. And if they don't, I'm not a risk avoidant person, I will jump straight off the cliff and not give a damn on the way down. But most people aren't like that, they ARE risk avoidant, and when shit hits the fan, they freak out and the fun factor begins shrinking, and we don't want that, we want LOTS of fun factor. So, a plan is needed, and a order of operations layout/scheme to get started off on the right foot.

Categorize it...wood, finishing supplies, hardware, screws, electronic parts, whatever it is. Add it up and look at it as a whole...let your brain synthesize your plan into a whole 'thing' so you can 'see' in your mind's eye the finished guitar. That is your project as it sits, then you can begin adjusting and shaving wherever you need to. Give it a few days, maybe a week, of asking questions and getting answers to formulate 'the plan'. The worst thing you can do is start buying stuff then change your plans, and find out it doesn't work with 'the adjusted plan'. That is your first roadsign warning, don't buy a thing until you can see the finished project in your head, or you'll waste money and get pissed.

This way of proceeding goes for the scrap piece I recommended you hunt down as well. It is the exact same philosophy at work, and it is a way to successful outcomes. If you slap some blue dye down on your scrap piece of Mahogany and it looks like crap... You just saved yourself countless hours of pissed-offed-ness from doing that to the guitar. Where it would take you FAR more time and effort to fix your mistake. Successful outcomes and kick-ass guitars means minimizing mistakes and catastrophes. Every step forward you take, you want it to be a successful step forward and keep moving ahead. Once you start making mistakes and having to fix them, it begins to remove the fun factor from the successful outcome you want. Make a plan, cost it out, adjust what you need to, ask questions, and go find a scrap of Mahogany.

[Drak]

OK, I did a quick check on your first YT you linked. I've done that finish, many times. If this is your first project, the last thing you want to do is get in way over your head.

This finish can be done to Mahogany, but it won't look nearly as effective as below, because of the wood itself.  Look up (YT) Doghair Finishes. That is what they usually call this finish when its applied to Mahogany. And I've never seen a blue one, ever (except mine, but mine isn't Mahogany and its a few levels above first-time finish).

How will you know if it's what you want? You'll go find a few pieces (yes, I skipped up to a few pieces now) of Mahogany.

You'll do test runs on some scrap to see if you can do it and if you even like it before you plow into your guitar and possibly create a catastrophe that will need to be fixed. See how all this works together?

Example One:

 

 

[Drak]

I checked out the Northern Lights YT you linked and the Crimson Guitars.

Not working so much for your guitar.

You want to start looking up Mahogany finishes, or finishing, or pics of Mahogany guitars.

That's what I would do, I would start searching using terms like 'custom mahogany guitar' or 'custom Mahogany finish' and see what pops up.

Those will be your limitations.

Like I said above, Doghair is a term typically used for Mahogany.

Mahogany is what you have to work with, that is your first limitation.

You are limited to what effects Mahogany can offer you, and mahogany is beautiful, but it's not flashy Maple.

But keep bringing the posts, its all good, we're beginning to set some perimeters and boundaries of what you can and can't achieve on your specific guitar.

[axegarden]

1 hour ago, Drak said:

I wouldn't buy a single thing until you've drawn up your plan. Plan? Oh, hell yes, a plan, and that's not all. Start a .doc and make a list of every single piece of whatever you think you need to buy and start costing it all out. And start an order of operations, get it down on paper. Baggying up all the parts and labelling the bags, stripping, dying, finishing, assemblying, how does it all fit together? What goes where and when and why. Get it down on paper, it will force your brain to start coming up with answers. And you need those answers, believe me you do.

Thanks for all the good advice. I've begun a .doc with materials to consider, costs, and a linear plan of what tasks to perform. 

I'll look up "doghair" mahogany vids. I like the ones you posted, but i'll refrain from asking how you did it for now. That technique looks particularly 2D and I'm aiming to get as much depth as I can out of the mahogany. I started looking for custom mahoganies but there's few high quality pics, one I found was a nice blue mahogany Ernie Ball here. 

One concept I'm currently trying to decipher is water vs alcohol based stains. Apparently alcohol dries fast and is thus harder to blend and evenly coat. The Angelus brand seems nice for alcohol, though as a beginner I'm intimidated by any difficulty alcohol poses. The Crimson Stunning Stains seem like a good choice for water-based. I don't quite understand why one would use one over the other.

I would like a multicolored aspect to it, so that it's not quite as monochrome as the Ernie Ball example. That's why I was attracted to an initial black layer to bring out the grain, and a purple-to-blue blend from the center outwards. A blend like this doesn't seem as attractive on mahogany as a figured maple top, though, so I may change my mind. 

[Drak]

This is what a burst looks like on Mahogany.

Insert whatever color you want, blue, green, red, it will look much like this. Nothing more.

This is what Mahogany looks like, that's about it.

From what I can see, your Mahogany body looks quite nice, but no one really knows until its stripped.

Now, if all that Maple-Gazing has you salivating (believe me, you won't be the first)

Then maybe you want to re-calculate the whole thing and not move forward with this refinish.

If your money is better spent actually buying a Figured Maple topped guitar, then that is the call.

And you didn't waste a penny going down a road you really didn't want to travel in the end.

This is what the .doc and planning stage is all about, perfectly normal.

 

[Drak]

Turquoise blue Mahogany:

 

This is an excellent way of showing you the difference.

The outer part of the body is Mahogany (what you have)

The center piece is an inlay of Figured Maple.

You cannot make one look like the other, yours is the outer, the Mahogany, that's what Mahogany looks like (in blue)

If you want to do some sort of similar inlay, start drawing up the plans and making the .doc, make that brain work!

You can do it, you can do anything, just depends on money, talent, tools, patience, followthrough, and a good plan.

 

[axegarden]

9 minutes ago, Drak said:

This is what a burst looks like on Mahogany.

Insert whatever color you want, blue, green, red, it will look much like this. Nothing more.

This is what Mahogany looks like, that's about it.

From what I can see, your Mahogany body looks quite nice, but no one really knows until its stripped.

Then maybe you want to re-calculate the whole thing and not move forward with this refinish.

If your money is better spent actually buying a Figured Maple topped guitar, then that is the call.

 

 

 

As soon as my soldering iron arrives I'll disassemble my electronics and begin to strip the finish off with the heat gun. This is one of my favorite guitars so I'm dedicated to refinishing it for sure. I will try a purple to blue blend on my scrap mahogany to decide whether a fade is what I want. I think it depends on the colors. I dig that turquoise one you found but I'm aiming for more royal blue, actually similar to the original Jet Blue. I like the Angelus Blue, but it's alcohol based and it seems alcohol is quick-drying, harder to work with as a beginner. I may move for the Crimson water-based stains for a more user-friendly experience. Then again, these aren't expensive dyes and I may try both on scrap wood to see what I can produce.  

[Drak]

Keep the ideas rolling and I'll keep giving you my feedback.

I also like Royal Blue more than Turquoise, that's just what Google gave me to work with.

Don't sweat alcohol vs. water yet, thanks for bringing up what is in your head, so I can give feedback.

That battle is not on the horizon yet, its really not, and even when it is, its no big deal, it really isn't.

I use both all the time and I could care less which one is in my hands most days.

And I add water to alcohol dyes when the situation calls for it, which is sometimes...not often, but sometimes.

5 minutes ago, axegarden said:

Then again, these aren't expensive dyes and I may try both on scrap wood to see what I can produce.  

NOW you're talking! Perfect! That is what I call planning for a successful outcome. And that's what we want.

[axegarden]

14 minutes ago, Drak said:

Don't sweat alcohol vs. water yet, thanks for bringing up what is in your head, so I can give feedback.

That battle is not on the horizon yet, its really not, and even when it is, its no big deal, it really isn't.

I use both all the time and I could care less which one is in my hands most days.

And I add water to alcohol dyes when the situation calls for it, which is sometimes...not often, but sometimes.

Thanks a lot for your help, drak. Are there any vendors you'd recommend for dyes? or matte black hardware?

I need to delve into what to do after staining. The types of coats applied after that seem varied from luthier to luthier. Wouldn't I "seal" the wood after staining? Does that have the same effect as "wood filling" (the grain)?

[Bizman62]

2 hours ago, axegarden said:

Can I line the inside with aluminum sheeting to have the same effect?

Yes, anything that conducts electricity will work. Many glues act as insulation so some creativity in folding the tape edges may be required.

AFA doghair, would this qualify as a wire haired dachshund?

1 hour ago, axegarden said:

as a beginner I'm intimidated by any difficulty alcohol poses. The Crimson Stunning Stains seem like a good choice for water-based. I don't quite understand why one would use one over the other.

If you apply alcohol based dye first, it won't blend with a water based dye you'll apply after that. Thus you won't get some dirty brown if you have alcohol based red as a base layer and water based blue on top of it, unless you really flood the top. I've used the Crimson Shots both with water and alcohol. Getting a solid layer mixed with alcohol was no big issue for a first timer...

[axegarden]

19 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Yes, anything that conducts electricity will work. Many glues act as insulation so some creativity in folding the tape edges may be required.

AFA doghair, would this qualify as a wire haired dachshund?

If you apply alcohol based dye first, it won't blend with a water based dye you'll apply after that. Thus you won't get some dirty brown if you have alcohol based red as a base layer and water based blue on top of it, unless you really flood the top. I've used the Crimson Shots both with water and alcohol. Getting a solid layer mixed with alcohol was no big issue for a first timer...

lol You got me on that dachshund joke. It really does look like that. That pic got me thinking though - if that tobacco-like color were blue, it would be pretty sick. Although it looks like 2 different colors, like they don't blend it's just tobacco and black, yaknow? Maybe I'll try it on some scrap wood. 

Is the purpose of the aluminum sheeting inside the cavities to create a faraday cage effect? Is the aluminum charged when playing? I know all the electronics are grounded to it, and the bridge, but I don't understand the purpose of that, care to elaborate?

Don't mix alcohol and water-based dyes - Got it. Are the shots just concentrate versions of the "stunning stain", so that they can be mixed with water or alcohol? Thanks bizman.

Edited March 19, 2021 by axegarden
spelling

[Drak]

Shielding the cavities , if you want to do that (I always do but its optional) should be in your planner.

Its one of the very very very last things I do before actually assembling the guitar.

Or you could say its the very very very first part of the assembly process.

I always use copper conductive tape, 2", from Amazon.

Much better price than from any guitar specific resource place.

Takes maybe 20 minutes.

[Bizman62]

Just now, axegarden said:

Is the purpose of the aluminum sheeting inside the cavities to create a faraday cage effect? Is the aluminum charged when playing?

Exactly. And it's only grounded, not charged. I'm not an electrician but it's meant to eliminate hum.

The Stunning Stain Shots are concentrate versions which you can mix with water or alcohol. Also note that alcohol can be mixed with water so basically you should be able to mix alcohol and water based dyes for a certain hue - there's no such thing as 100% alcohol, there's always some water included. If you apply alcohol based dye on wood and let it dry it won't blend with water based dye applied at a later stage. But if you apply water based dye, you can either wash it with plain water or blend it with another colour. In my latest build thread I just made a burst with water based dye. The fading was made simply by rubbing a clean wet cloth at the edge of a colour stripe. I did that a week ago and I've now wiped it twice to get rid of the excess dye and fade the burst better.

[Drak]

Speaking to your plans of heat-gunning the finish off...I'm a fan, done it many times, but there are warnings, and they are big warnings (to not make mistakes that drive you backward) The biggest warning is being overly aggressive and (if you're using a metal putty knife, which I do) digging into your wood with the corners. Do Not Let That Happen, not even once, since I brought it up and you know now. That is a huge step backwards and very very easy to do if you're not paying attention.

The smallest 'dig' into that body wood will cause you time, effort, and frustration fixing what didn't have to happen.

The second warning is overheating an area where it starts smoking or burning. A Huge 'Don't Let This Happen To You' warning.

Whenever you see smoke, the finish is literally burning your Mahogany underneath of it. You'll have black burn marks in the Mahogany you'll have to sand out.

So its like this: the heat needs to be 'in the window' of opportunity to lift the finish.

Not too cold, not too hot, but 'in the window' of opportunity. And you have to work with it and not try to force it to happen.

I generally Always keep the heat gun moving and work on areas about 8" around, no bigger, no smaller than that.

Double-duty pic, you can see more copper shielding! I do it to all of my guitars, but I don't force it on anyone else.

Your finish is probably poly, so it probably won't 'peel off' as nicely as these pics show, this is lacquer.

[axegarden]

23 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Exactly. And it's only grounded, not charged. I'm not an electrician but it's meant to eliminate hum.

The Stunning Stain Shots are concentrate versions which you can mix with water or alcohol. Also note that alcohol can be mixed with water so basically you should be able to mix alcohol and water based dyes for a certain hue - there's no such thing as 100% alcohol, there's always some water included. If you apply alcohol based dye on wood and let it dry it won't blend with water based dye applied at a later stage. But if you apply water based dye, you can either wash it with plain water or blend it with another colour. In my latest build thread I just made a burst with water based dye. The fading was made simply by rubbing a clean wet cloth at the edge of a colour stripe. I did that a week ago and I've now wiped it twice to get rid of the excess dye and fade the burst better.

I'm definitely going to be shielding the cavities, then. Can you link to your water dye build?

16 minutes ago, Drak said:

The smallest 'dig' into that body wood will cause you time, effort, and frustration fixing what didn't have to happen.

So its like this: the heat needs to be 'in the window' of opportunity to lift the finish.

Your finish is probably poly, so it probably won't 'peel off' as nicely as these pics show, this is lacquer.

I'm going to take the heat-gunning slow to avoid these pitfalls. I also have a plastic scraper to use in order to avoid damaging the wood. Hopefully it won't be too hot for a plastic scraper. On the subject of lacquer - don't lacquers give a yellow tint? I want a nice glassy clear coat on top.