ghostdive Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 I got into making guitars in my late teens because I wanted specific things and either couldn't afford them or they didn't exist. After four lame attempts, two of which actually played, I lost my building space and life went on. For some reason now seems like as good a time as any so here it goes; I'm finally making a giant V. I'm nearly as tall as my favorite guitarist, and while he's played a Les Paul for a long time now, I've always fixated on his giant Y2KVs. I'm deviating here and there; my basic design is a Gibson V body scaled up ~11% with a 27" scale length. The one dimension that differs is that I kept the same length from the top of the body to the crook of the V, mainly to hopefully make it sit on my leg a bit more naturally. There's a lot that I'm apprehensive about, particularly the neck and routing the body to the template (I have tearout-related PTSD). In spite of that, I'm giving it my all. Updates will be slow but I look forward to sharing progress as it happens. Next step is seeing if I can salvage the super twisted mahogany I bought for the neck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakedzen Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 To reduce tearout: first bandsaw as close to the line as you can, route slow and multiple passes if you have more than 1mm of material to remove. A new bit helps too. I can't really see but if that paper is placed on the line, but if it is I'd take a lot more out with the bandsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 Hi and welcome to the addiction! I love your attitude of "deviating here and there" because why bother making an exact copy of something that may not fit your body. @nakedzen gave solid advice about routing. Despite knowing the rule it was just a couple of weeks ago when I thought I'd be able to sneak up to the template. Well, I couldn't. Nothing happened but I got yet another lesson about preparing the workpiece before routing. The table router is a hungry and powerful animal and as you'd like to keep your fingers as far away as possible off the bit you're losing accuracy. A handheld router is easier to guide - even free hand along a line is doable - but it can easily tilt at the edge of an outline template. About restoring warped wood, I'm currently working on badly twisted maple. It was sold as B-grade single piece strat type neck blanks, thicknessed and cut to length. And twisted like a propeller! I stored them for a year or two under some weight but it didn't help much. So finally I planed the high corners off to get some thinner but straight pieces which seem to be solid. But now they're too thin... No worry, I prefer laminated necks anyway so I simply cut them in half, turn the halves on side and add something in between, even the same or some contrasting wood and maybe some thinner strips as well. That actually becomes a bit thicker, enough to allow an angle at the headstock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 noice. giant v - was not aware there were bigger vs. pretty cool. tearout - I've only ever had one problem and it was because I was doing something stoopid - doing a roundover on an already radius top guitar. I think the most common place folks run into tearout is trying to do a full depth pass with a router and that is suicide. A) take no more than 1/2" depth cuts and B ) down hill routing and C) don't ever run a router through a knot... you'll limit your chances of ever bumping into it. This all takes more time... but it's generally trying to do things fast when you'll get into trouble anyway. for inspiration - one of the most rare gibson vs ever: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akula Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 I like it! As others have said, router tear-out is something that can be avoided by taking away small amounts of material in a single pass. Do a million small passes instead of one large one. Router direction is something to be mindful of. Really, just pay attention to how the machine feels and sounds, and tell her nice things. Warped timber? Yep, Bizman has all the right advice here, listen to this guy. I had some good luck earlier this year with steaming a piece of timber back into shape, but that was a relatively thin top, not a neck blank. Laminated necks are the way forward - with the right arrangement, a twist in the timber will be counteracted by the other half. My advice? Give it a red-hot go. You can always buy more wood. - Jam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdive Posted December 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 Thank you all for the advice, I appreciate it very much. I still haven't cut the body close to the final shape; I wanted to give the glue a lot of time to cure. I procured a 1/2" long pattern bit (why are all of them in the wild 1"??) so I'm hoping to take small bites for once. Still haven't made the template...soon. I found a few of my old tools, sans my nice #6 plane, so I sharpened up this #4 and it's worked very well to correct the neck wood. It's flat enough to trim accurately and I think I'll be able to get two blanks out of it - one to blow up, a second to make right Back to the body; one side of it has a nice seam, and one side has an unfortunate gap. My plan is to put the neck onto the gap side, since routing the pocket and gluing the neck will sort of nullify it. There will still be a small gap between the pickups, but it won't be hard to fill and I don't plan to have a smooth glossy finish anyway. Input appreciated if this is a dumb idea - my second option in mind is putting a couple bowtie inlays on the gap side and using it as the back. Marks to be cleaned up, of course, in due time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 4 hours ago, ghostdive said: one side has an unfortunate gap. You mean the gap is not all the way through? Let's just hope that the gap is only close to the surface! You'll find out when routing the neck pocket... I had a similar issue with a 7 ply neck blank, the top side was perfect but the other side had gaps all over. Fortunately it was solid all the way through for a thru-neck and even in the offcut the seams were closed right below the surface, only a few mm were open. That looked worse than it actually was! I'm currently using that and other offcuts to build a neck... However, measuring the depth of the gap might be wise. Poke a needle or a feeler gauge in several spots to find out the depth. You may not want a half split neck pocket! If the gap worries you, there's several ways to fix it without cutting the entire body. You already mentioned bowtie inlays and they surely would work. A row of contrasting bowties might actually look fantastic! Another option is to carve a slot all through the seam and inlay a strip. That could easily be done with a handheld circular saw driven along a rail. Glad you could straighten your neck blank, it's apparently bigger than I thought since you may be able to make two necks out of it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdive Posted December 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 The gap is 11/16" deep at the front, then 3/8" starting about half an inch back. I think it'll be okay once the neck is glued in. I trued the wood a bit more on the tablesaw, which roughed up the surface but gave me better 90 degree angles, and then I cut access slots for the bandsaw: Set up the bandsaw fence to cut about halfway, then adjusted slightly after a test nibble: The blade wandered about a millimeter as I cut, which I'll call a win. I intend to have the neck a little thicker toward the heel anyway. In hindsight I could have made the heel a bit shorter, but I'll alter that later. I plan to do a reverse Jackson-style headstock. I did some rough math and I should have enough material - 20.25" to the 24th fret, plus ~.375" after, plus ¼" or so for the nut, plus ~8" for the headstock, plus ~4" that will be shortened by the scarf joint (purely guessed at this). Neck blanks are 3"x1⅞" at the heel, about ⅞" at the thin part. One of the blanks has an unfortunate defect, so I'll likely cut off the heel and reglue it on top to see if i can save it. If not, oh well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, ghostdive said: I should have enough material The numbers look good but if you feel like needing a fraction more, you can always put a thin veneer between the neck and fretboard. Even a 1/64" slice can do miracles, not only by adding thickness but also to the looks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 26, 2022 Report Share Posted December 26, 2022 That defect looks like a knot crack from drying. I'd be concerned that surrounding non-straight grain will provide a shorter path through the workpiece for additional fractures, or indicate the potential presence of stresses within the material. When you start removing large amounts of stock, keep checking your flat reference faces and let the wood sit between major operations. A warp expressing itself out of internal stresses being released can result in a neck blank that won't work as intended in service. Something to be aware of before you get too invested in any specific workpiece. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdive Posted January 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 Not much progress this weekend; attempted cutting the body to approximate shape and the bandsaw wasn't having any of it. I then absentmindedly knocked it off the bench and the glue joint failed, which I suppose puts to rest any doubts about its strength. I've taken it as a learning opportunity. Managed to get the scarf joint going, taking no pictures along the way. You know how these things go by now, it's nothing special. Considering ways to test its strength next weekend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdive Posted January 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 Ah! Forgot to mention that this is the suspect neck with the knot crack. I trimmed that off with about 5mm to spare (aiming for 56mm heel width). I didn't want to try my new jig with the good one. That being said, it came out so well that I'm tempted to use it if the glue holds. I decided to go with a Richlite fretboard, which will arrive in a couple days. I have a truss rod from a past project. Frets/tuners/nut aside, I may have the hard part done before too long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 2, 2023 Report Share Posted January 2, 2023 11 hours ago, ghostdive said: knocked it off the bench and the glue joint failed, which I suppose puts to rest any doubts about its strength I'd call that a perfect timing! No finish to fix, no cavities to be re-routed, no listening to sudden cracks while playing... And not a single piece of wood lost. Win-win! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdive Posted January 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 Some new fire for you all - I've roughly shaped the fingerboard, close enough for now, by cutting then sanding. I'm finding that there are a lot of things that a router would work well for that aren't worth the setup. I did get the table just right and routed the slot for the truss rod, which went pretty well considering I did full depth in one pass. I'm using a 1/4" bit and after the first run I moved my fence 1/16"; fits nicely. Of course, after these pictures I couldn't leave it alone, and went too far towards the heel, so I'm fixing that. Also beginning to glue headstock pieces on - current plan is to get enough meat for the shape, then glue on a veneer in the shape I want, then rout the rest using the cap as a template. I'm somewhat confident in my scarf joint despite the cold temperatures (I jumped on it several times, and I'm 245 lbs) but a little help won't hurt it. Next step is...either cutting excess off of the neck (unsure how I'll tackle that) or gluing on the fretboard (I'm scared). Onwards and sidewards... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdive Posted January 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2023 Was going crazy trying to get this last piece glued on when my brother asked if I'd tried rubber bands... Fingers crossed that this holds. I'd say that it isn't a structural section anyway, but I just bought a pointy headstock guitar and you wouldn't believe what part of it I bump things with the most!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 12, 2023 Report Share Posted January 12, 2023 Adversity and performing repairs when things go wrong are often the best teachers. I broke so many things and did so many things incorrectly in the early days that it was almost completely unfunny. The thing is, that formed the basis of what is now my profession! If this repair doesn't work out, take as much from the experience as you can. Every thing you do, always better than the last. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdive Posted January 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Little bit of progress today. Bought more wood; more mahogany for the body and some 1/8" walnut for future projects. A stroke of inspiration resulted in this: Routing this with a pattern bit sticking out of the table was seriously terrifying. I didn't go full depth on most of it since it'll be cut off when I go to finished thickness; the portion I did go full depth on (to have a flat surface for bandsawing) had me questioning my choice of hobbies. I'm mostly happy with it, with my only irritation being that I went too far with the sander. Won't be hard to fix, at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Pilot holes in the headstock veneer and pins to hold it in place for pilot holes through the headstock! Never thought of that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 You can even put bolts with washers through to provide clamping pressure since tuner holes are mostly 10mm diameter. Of course, a plywood caul is needed either side. One or two clamps and it covers the lot. An old trick I learnt was to sprinkle a little table salt into the glue to provide friction between the two surfaces as the glue sets up. The grains bite into the mating surfaces like sandpaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Bolts and washers! Simple yet very effective - who needs clamps any longer?1? I've heard about the salt trick and I've also heard some concerns about it. After all, the glue is water for a big part and salt is water soluble. And even a little salt changes the proportions of ingredients by a great amount as the excess glue will squeeze out but the salt will stick between the surfaces. The ultra thin film of glue left in the seam will get very salty. I wonder if any chemist has ever studied the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Well, you always need clamps. Bolts, screws or anything that can draw two surfaces together are useful. No idea about the salt. I doubt that a pinch makes that much difference, and if it did I am sure somebody more capable that I would comment on it. Mainly it's to help prevent surfaces skating about under hydrostatic pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 42 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Well, you always need clamps. Indeed, and aren't bolts and washers just that, clamps? 43 minutes ago, Prostheta said: No idea about the salt. I doubt that a pinch makes that much difference, A pinch, yes. How large a surface can that keep from sliding? I mean, even if there's one single grain on a square cm that would still be quite a high percentage within the amount of liquid glue left after clamping. The salt grains don't come out. A pinch of salt weighs about 65 mg but what is the quantity of glue after clamping? The Titebond site tells that you'll need at least a gallon per 250 square feet. How much does that make for a headstock veneer? My brain hurts... Anyhow, just be cautious with the salt. Sand might be safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrim Posted January 17, 2023 Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Bizman62 said: Bolts and washers! It’s richness that on a community like this people come from different backgrounds. I identify myself more as a metalworker than a woodworker so for me using bolts everywhere where there is a hole is a no-brainer. When working with metal you even drill holes for making temporary attachments and weld the holes shut afterwards. But I wouldn’t have ever thought for example using the painters tape and CA glue trick for attaching stuff. And I love that trick now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdive Posted January 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2023 Thank you both for your input, I didn't consider bolts and the friction additive (salt or otherwise) is something I never would have come up with. I'll definitely consider those moving forward. Today I did not get a whole lot done. Fixed the void, put it back with some clumsy chisel work, fixed it again, epoxied the fretboard, found out that it slid (used towels under a soft pine board to distribute clamping force, which obscured vision), peeled it off, scraped and sanded until the epoxy was gone, made better walls for the fretboard to sit against, and just now glued (with titebond) the fretboard again. I'm confident in its position this time, but no clue if this will work out. Whether richlite needs epoxy is debatable from what I've gathered; since I'm out, I don't lose much if wood glue doesn't hold aside from another 20 minutes of sanding. We'll find out this weekend, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakedzen Posted January 18, 2023 Report Share Posted January 18, 2023 I saw someone rub 80 grit papers together to get some grains mixed in the glue, as an alternative for the salt trick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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