ansil Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 I need your help here. i am getting a lot of feedback no pun intended on my mods. i am trying to help clarify them for people and would like your input on it. i am in the process of doing a pcb layout for the blend knob and the sustaionr/feedbacker as well as i was thinkin of doign a mod to a few pickups i have to show you how to acomplish this. would this help also i am now doing kits for the sustainor thing. for around 8 bucks if anyone wants one. this includes the speaker the chip the board a pot. a batt snap. some silver wire. and the caps to do the mod with. as well as instructions with actuall pics on them these i will email out too you. but if i can help make this clearer then by all means please let me know how. i thought it was prety striped down and basic but then again i have been wrogn before. and in closing just remember this one thing water will seperate into hydrogen and oxygen if you apply enough electricity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Making your schematics clearer for the amateur guitar builder sounds like a great idea to me! A lot of us have experience with guitar electronics, but for me personally, electricity and circuit design turn into one big foggy mess really quickly. I can muddle my way around pickups and switching but i get confused pretty quickly. I was pretty good in Physics class, but once we got into circuit analysis, i couldn't wrap my brain around it. I couldn't even tell you the difference between a capacitor and a resistor. I can read a schematic, but i don't know what any of it means. Instructions (and clear illustrations) with dead-simple instructions like "solder this wire HERE -->" would go a long way. Assume your target audience knows *nothing* about electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckguitarist Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Assume your target audience knows *nothing* about electronics. Yea! Amen. I want to build a pedal but I'm exactly like the person Darren described in his post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted April 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 ok well i understand its just some things i dont' know how to approach this as i have been doing stuff like this for 21 years what about this tutorial does this make sense http://www.geocities.com/austenfantanio/So...athtutorial.htm http://www.killerrockandroll.com/deathbyau...nihilation.html thats the clone of this pedal although mine isnt' pretty it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefm Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 I actually have an aweful time with the diagrams...I find it easier to follow with schematics...that would help me loads... also a how and why they work... I know that won't work for everyone though...If you follow some of the other electronics mods on there you should be pretty safe... I think the problem isn't that they are too complex...maybe the other way around....they need more info... Some like the black ice are pretty obvious...it's a clipper...you could maybe draw up a sinewave and show how it clips the signal for more clarity some like the sustainer are a little muddy and need more info...I'm not entirely sure from the diagram where it fits into the normal circuitry and how the effect is produced Pictures of how things are secured to each other would be a big step forward... To be honest a solder this here....do this do that step by step hand holding tutorial would be a step backwards....A little exposition yes...but getting that verbose with the detail would make it too specific and make it hard to adapt to custom applications...it'd work in an ideal situation though...but retrofiting a sustainer into a guitar that doesn't match the one in the tutorial might catch some people out...some vagueness is necessary A tutorial on schematics...at least on what the symbols mean would likely benefit a lot of people...and basic electronics safety...I know it's passive electronics but still...might as well... those should really be addressed anyway before an "audience that knows nothing about electronics" should be attempting things like pedals and wiring things...(I have had soooo many burns and shocks and I basically know whats going on) Maybe a difficulty level rating...something like the black ice that takes 10 minutes and and can be done in the dark with one hand behind your back would be for most people...and things like that horrifying 12 way switch could be a little tougher...and stuff like the sustainer that involves active circuitry might be advanced level... that way you can write appropriate tutorials for the audience...if people can't read schematics or can't understand you could point them to where they can learn about it... You know a lot about electronics and I'd hate to see you hold back some advanced stuff because you can't dumb it down...Some stuff really is just plain hard...there is no easy way...I'm not saying this to exclude anyone or to tell you to only write for engineers....but some stuff isn't meant for the average person...You wouldn't buy a car and ask why there isn't an easy tutorial on tuning a carb....because there isn't an easy way....changing oil...easy...installing a turbo....hard.....changing pickups....easy...designing a logic circuit *cries* If you want I could even put out a schematic lesson to help out.... I would do one on safety too but....well burns and shocks and such...that and it's a complicated subject best addressed by someone that has more knowledge...kinda like a shop teacher telling you why you need to cut your hair and take off jewlery and giving graphic examples (that was one of my favourite parts of class) By modding Pickups do you mean like a conversion to a 4 conductor wire??? Anyway...I guess that's a little more than two cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Yea! Amen. I want to build a pedal but I'm exactly like the person Darren described in his post. Hey, that person i described was ME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted April 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 thanks alot i would appreciate any help you could give Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 A tutorial on schematics...at least on what the symbols mean would likely benefit a lot of people...and basic electronics safety...I know it's passive electronics but still...might as well... those should really be addressed anyway before an "audience that knows nothing about electronics" should be attempting things like pedals and wiring things...(I have had soooo many burns and shocks and I basically know whats going on)That is the best idea i've heard all week! Ideally, you could start with guitar wiring, since we've just about all at least seen it - maybe use photos or drawings along side schematics so folks could get an idea of what them little squiggles represent. Then move up to more complex stuff, and include some links to basic electronics sites for anybody who wants to earn more. If you want I could even put out a schematic lesson to help out.... I would do one on safety too but....well burns and shocks and such...that and it's a complicated subject best addressed by someone that has more knowledge...kinda like a shop teacher telling you why you need to cut your hair and take off jewlery and giving graphic examples (that was one of my favourite parts of class) That's too funny - I've just gone through a 2 week session of tweaking and debugging a new amp prototype with a friend of mine. This guy has been a guitar tech for years, he's a good carpenter and has some construction experience, and he's very safety-conscious, but in the last two weeks he's managed to get bitten by HV (twice), burn himself with a soldering iron and cut his fretting hand wide open on a chassis, so you can never be too careful. If you've got the patience to put a basic tutorial together, i'd be happy to help any way I can, and I'm sure Ansil and the rest of the crew could be pressed into service too. I actually have more problems with wiring diagrams - I usually have to draw them out as a schematic in order to use them, but I do most everything bass-ackwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefm Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Hahaha...yeah...soldering irons are my enemy...I always try to grab them like a pencil out of habit...Always always....My friend has a nice butane one...you can grip it lower without causing injury... I'm sure everyone in a trade has those fun "I once set myself on fire" kind of stories... Wearing jewlery with electronics is bad...not so bad with guitars...I wouldn't dare with an amp...get a gold ring in the wrong spot and you're a very sad panda...if it's expensive enough it'll melt into your skin...yep...shop teachers are great... As long as it has a route to ground that doesn't involve your head or heart though you're a little bit safer...(not much) and it's not backwards reading schematics....they're easier...I re-drew a lot of the ones from the guitar electronics site....actually I spent a couple days doing it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefm Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Oh and I'll work on that on the weekend...I have it off...so I should be able to come up with something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Gimme a shout if you need any assistance - I don't have the patience to do it myself, so you have my undying admiration. I can barely concentrate on work long enough to keep our website going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefm Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 That pedal tutorial is actually really good...I missed it the first time through... It's basically a bypass pedal with a wet dry pot right???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted April 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 yeah well see its designed really to be a feedback looper basically yeah it just bypasses everything when off, but when on whatever is in the loop will keep regenrating itself until it oscilates by itself. nice little pedal to make an od freak out even at low settings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 It's tough to argue against the fact that schematics are easier than diagrams and/or photos. I mean, they created the symbols for schematics for a reason. But that's not the point-- the point is that it assumes the reader understands the 'language' of the schematics. Many people, like me, do not. I could look at a schematic all day, and even have someone point at it and say "See, this is a resistor... this is a capacitor"... and I will still not understand it. It's not because of stupidity or lack of concentration, but simply a lack of knowlegdge. And I would wager than those of us who don't already know schematic convention also don't have a lot of time or resources to take a basic electronics class first. We just want to solder some stuff together. In cases where the guitars aren't exactly the same as our own, I think most of us are still able to make some creative modifications. That said, it's always a matter of deciding whether your time is well spent in doing a "here's how the know-nothings could do it" exposition, Ansil. Since it's your good will and desire to share with the community that's inspiring you to offer us your projects in the first place, if you decide that it's OUR responsibility to learn schematics if we want to do your (or any other) projects, then I think you're within your rights! Greg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLS Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 http://www.geocities.com/austenfantanio//wiringv2.htm The use of pictures really helped me out on that schematic. So i think incorporating pictures would help alot of people like me who have very little electrical experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckguitarist Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 These pictures are most helpful to me. I know exactly where everything goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblical Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 for pcb layout, all go to www.pcb-pool.com and download target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefm Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 That said, it's always a matter of deciding whether your time is well spent in doing a "here's how the know-nothings could do it" exposition, Ansil. Since it's your good will and desire to share with the community that's inspiring you to offer us your projects in the first place, if you decide that it's OUR responsibility to learn schematics if we want to do your (or any other) projects, then I think you're within your rights! You do have a good point...but the point I was trying to make is not that the tutorials have to be elitist or inaccesible...but that it would benefit both the people interested in the electronics mods and the person writing if it could be assumed that they had a knowledge of the basics....I'm not saying you have to truly understand how something works...sometimes you don't care to...sometimes it's just not possible...but the "what goes where" discussion is a lot easier when there is some common knowledge base that can be drawn from....(like assuming people know a little about woodworking in some of the other tutorials) I'll provide a basic outline on how schematics work...at least pertaining to guitar electronics in a very basic way with examples from outside the electronics realm when I can come up with them...guitar electronics luckily don't get too complicated so I should be able to manage ok....this will make for easier tutorials to read and write in the future...(i.e. Less complicated instructions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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