fidgec94 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Shrink wrap/saran wrap/cling film......potato/potaaaarto I worked in a DIY store and we used huge rolls of shrink wrap to wrap and hold pallets of stock together so that they can safely held up high in the storage racks. If anything the shrink wrap was alot thinner than cling film that i had in the kitchen at home. Anyway, i digress. Wraping a pallet in shrink wrap works well cos it holds it all together but it does not compress it by any means. It had a very elastic nature (hmmmm....elastic? dunno, maybe i just mean stretchy) and over time the shrink wrap would relax quite a bit and stock starts falling out of the sky! How do you apply the wrap? I assume you'd have to clamp the guitar rather well so that you could really pull the shrink wrap tight around the body. Generally when i wrapped pallets (to get it as tight as i wanted), the wrap was always near breaking point, about 30 layers tended to help. Is there zero gap when your gluing is done? I imagine a 1/64" gap would be not totally obvious but annoying if noticeable. I think the example i had a problem with is this one: While the wrap will hold the top in its horizontal position, i cant see it adding a great deal to the downward pressure, especially between the two clamps on the neck line. You say that you got good results but i wonder if that was mainly due to the 3 additional clamps you used. Maybe you should try it again, in exactly the same manner (for a fair test of course) but just the 3 clamps and no shrink wrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 For fairness, I will expalin that threr indeed was a gap prior to the shrink wrap. It was still evident when I thought what I had shoud be enough. I wrapped as tight as I could, and it held without a void long enough for the glue to reach adhesion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Hey Jeff, I can cetainly understand why you are on the defensive on this - I probably would be also. I certainly don't consider myself a high ranking builder here but I think I understand what they are saying. When you use words like "Custom Guitars" and "production" and "client" - although they may be technically correct, they are taken by many as someone who is assuming too much. I think the higher skilled builders would rather see the lesser experienceed builders work their way up - which is why they are all asking that you stick around. I have worked in automotive assembly plants and I know if an electricians apprentice walked around touting himself as a journeyman, he would recieve a bit of a talking to (to put it mildly). I think this is a similar situation - you appear to have given yourself (this is a interpretation on the part of many) a higher status than you have earned and that is of course where most of the trouble comes from. I feel a bit uncomfortable saying this since I don't consider myself a highly skilled builder but I'd like to take a shot at explaining my view on all of this. I think these guys are trying to protect the integrity of ProjectGuitar so please don't fault them for that. It is extremely hard to take this kind of criticism but if you're able to pull through it and come out on top, people will respect you even more for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I indeed have clients, and I demant perfection, or as close to as humanly possible for them. My own projects is where ecperimentation and such come in. That is the imperfections you see. If anyone feels mislead, they can read my signature. Life is at your own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I don't think my comments were taken as intended. Maybe give it a little time and things will cool down. When I talked about clients I was talking about the way that term is taken by more experienced builders - not the technical correctness of the term. I don't doubt that you have people paying you for your work - that's not what I meant. I also don't want you to think that the use of that one word is what people are upset about - it was just an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 We'd love to see the perfect guitars you already made, but to be honest, I think those guitars simply don't excist, or are sold without you taking photo's. Jeff, cut the crap and try to learn something from this. Step down from that ivory tower and be a little more reasonable. Right now you're making a fool out of yourself. However, I'll take back anything I said when I see pics of the perfect guitars you sold to your customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I indeed have clients, and I demant perfection, or as close to as humanly possible for them. My own projects is where ecperimentation and such come in. That is the imperfections you see. If anyone feels mislead, they can read my signature. Life is at your own risk. This is what i dont understand. What you call experimentation, we call extremely bad workmanship, design faults, and lack of preperation. Dont make me point out everything one by one, please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 They are not finished. I hinted at that and outrightly said it. As far as this goes, wait and see, you will be amazed. I indeed have clients, and I demant perfection, or as close to as humanly possible for them. My own projects is where ecperimentation and such come in. That is the imperfections you see. If anyone feels mislead, they can read my signature. Life is at your own risk. This is what i dont understand. What you call experimentation, we call extremely bad workmanship, design faults, and lack of preperation. Dont make me point out everything one by one, please!! Whatever you say Perry. If anything, I'd prefer to see you not reply. I have some pics soming and frankly am tired of this pissing contest. You can have the last word, I have work that needs done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 They are not finished. I hinted at that and outrightly said it. As far as this goes, wait and see, you will be amazed. I think you just crossed the point of no return. I can't wait to see those guitars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 They are not finished. I hinted at that and outrightly said it. As far as this goes, wait and see, you will be amazed. I think you just crossed the point of no return. I can't wait to see those guitars! Yes TLS, prepare to be AMAZED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsl602000 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 damnit Perry, I took the time to edit my typo and you quoted me before I was finished. You really want to make me look bad, ehr? Anyway, I really hope Jeff amazes us. I really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 And to be honest the whole pissing contest has actually driven me to be even more scrutinizing. I thought I had a good sanding job until I ent to smoke and saw all these little hairline scratches that need to go bye bye. And this is on one I honestly wont know what to do with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthier Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 My own projects is where ecperimentation and such come in. That is the imperfections you see. But you could still take your time a do a god job on them. I build all my instruments as if I am selling them, so then if there is a flaw, or something, I have a nice instrument with a small flaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 Yes matt. I have decided to do so. Too bad I had to first make an ass out of myself to get to this point. I have too many "projects in the salvage bin due to me thinking "that'll do". It wont do, cuz I can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 EXCELLENT, now you are finally coming around. Shesh... why has it taken this much effort?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthier Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 ... why has it taken this much effort?? Because, perhaps, he didn't want to see the truth about his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I know i'm just some weird guy that posts ignorant stuff and reads all of your stuff but this is funny. Like 5 or 6 guys are just yelling at this poor guy...........I'm gonna laugh when he actually does have some sweet guitars............ and for the record, i think his guitars are no where near perfect, but he's still trying....... please nobody make fun of me because i can build stuff...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Would you pay him a lot of money to do some work on your guitar Frankie? Would you send him your '78 Strat for a new nut and re-fret? Maybe your '84 LPC for a custom color re-finish? What's the nicest guitar you have, Frankie, and would you send it to Jeff to be worked on? PS, thanks for the spanish lesson dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankie Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Gibson les paul, how much money??? But, no i wouldn't send it to him, i hope people aren't sending it thinking he is a very experienced and seasoned luthier.....but that being said i still don't think 10 people should be badgering him, but he shouldn't be offering to do work if he's not 100% sure he can do the best job. you're welcome for the lesson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I let my stupid pride get in the way. Now after a day of thinking I am looking for one particular post that came to mind. The Pst I was Looking for: Litch, you have a long way to go. You have drive, which is something a lot of people lack. You have enthusiasm, which is fantastic. But, for gods sake, shut up and listen to people. Ive posted a lot of subtle hints to you in the past, which all seem to have flown straight over your head. If you want to make the best guitars you possibly car, listen to the guys who have taken enough interest in you to tell you when your wrong. We arent "picking on you", we are pointing out ways you can do things better, or letting you know about your errors. Would you prefer people said nothing, but sat back and sniggered?? If you cant take criticism, them stop making guitars RIGHT NOW, because more people will not like your guitars than love them (that goes for everyone, including me, and every guitar maker in the world). Thank you for recognizing my strong points, but I identfied my biggest weraknesses as of course pride (I think I learned a good lesson, tho) and a huge lack of discepline. And after I made juch an ass out of myself, I am going to work on being more disciplined. Which means even if I dont mind something being a little off because I am tired of redoing the same step continuously, it really doesnt matter because, it need to be better, mainly because I can do better. Being as I am on no time frame currently with work, I am simply going to concentrate on only one thing. Quality. Speed doesnt count if quality is absent. As far as what was said, though it did hurt (mostly my pride and ego) it helped because I now have an outside perspective of what I need to work on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowser Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 i think that if you concentrate on quality all the time, then after a few projects it will be natural to you to strive for the best possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 And the best I can possibly do, will get better. A sanding job I was almost satisfied with 2 days ago, I am still not even close after being more scrutinizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 After all that.... thankyou Jeff. Now can you see i was trying to help, and not singling you out as someone to pick on? As for time vs quality. Time is irrelevant as far as im concerned. I spent 5 hours grain filling and finish sanding a single guitar today, stained it, scraped the bindings, taped up the neck, and sprayed a coat of clear two pack, only to see marks in the timber. Quality is more important than time, so i will start stripping it all back tommorrow, and start again... so, thats another full lost day. Its MUCH better to lose a day or so now, than lose many customers because of "defects" in my work. Remember, people remember bad workmanship, and will tell others, much more than they will talk about great work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 I can see why MIMF prefers not to have their members post any works in progress unless illustrating a point. Definitely does not show you at your best, no matter how good you are at building guitars. But I'm still open to new concepts and ideas and trying to make them work, thats called "progress". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 13, 2004 Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 I can see that, too; however, I prefer seeing things develop in 'real time'. There are about 5 threads like that on the go right now, and it's great to see each stage of the guitar's development "as it happens". I think it gives a more personal vibe to the whole experience. Of course, since one of those threads is mine, I'm bound to be biased. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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