Building effects into guitars

[spirit]

I'm sure some of you, maybe most of you, are familiar with a band called "Muse". They have a guitarist called Matt Bellamy, who has guitars, rather unsurprisingly. Said guitars, for the most part, have (among other stuff), a Zvex Fuzz Factory effects pedal built into them, by the luthier who makes his guitars, Hugh Manson. I am quite interested in doing the same (whenever I get around to building a guitar that is). Hugh Manson sells just the "guts" of these pedals for installation, installation charged extra (of course). It's £150 for the pedal and £200 for installation. I may not have £150 to spend, let alone £200 on installation. So I sent an email asking if I could do it myself, and they said that they wouldn't recommend it. Now I come to you lot. I want to ask if you think it's possible for someone with not so much experence in this kind of thing to be able to do it. Well, is it?

P.S. Very sorry for the long post, I just like to explain myself

[JohnnyG]

building Effects into guitars isnt really that difficult. if you bought just the Guts of the Fuzz Factory then building it into the guitar wouldnt be too difficult either however it does have 5 control knobs and finding space for all of them may be a bit tricky

[A_M]

Interesting. I too have been thinking about some time building fuzz effects into a guitar, but was rather considering one of the variations on the Bazz Fuss effect. They seem simple enough even for me to put one together, perhaps this could be an option for you? (you wouldn't have the problem of finding space for 5 knobs on your guitar either)

[rob]

that bazz fuss thing looks pretty intersting! If anybody here has a shot at it and has a good experience with it, i would certainly have a go at it! looks like that could be pretty easylymounted in as well.

[spirit]

I've had a look at that Bazz Fuss, and that looks very cool! Might do that instead! Thanks alot A M!

[Biohazard]

Back to the Z-Vex questiong though. If your wanting all five knobs on the front then I wouldn't say it's too difficult because its just going to require fitting it into the guitars normal electronics with a DPDT swith for on/off purposes. However, I think when Manson's say its difficult to do yourself, they may mean if you want to do it likes how Matt's is with only two of the knobs on the front. Not sure though, only my interpretation.

[spirit]

I just thought, surely it could be as simple as connecting what would be the output of the guitar, to what would be the input of the pedal, and then make the output of the pedal the output of the guitar? (Assming you followed that, or understand what I mean) And hooking up a DPDT for on/off. Is it, or could it really be that simple? Or am I just missing something?

[lovekraft]

Yes, it's that simple - the only trick is making everything fit in the guitar. If you dig a big enough hole in the body, you can literally take the guts out of the box and install them in your axe. You'll need to shield everything, since the FF will no longer be shielded by its box, but that's no really big deal. Removing enough wood to make the cavity may compromise the sound of your guitar, but there's only one way to find out. If you think you can use it, go for it.

[spirit]

Em, then to put it bluntly, what the hell are Mansons on?? I dunno if it's aginst any forums rules to post prices, like on MIMF, but heres the lowdown:

Guts of pedal: £150 (about $266).

Installation: £200 (about $355)

Total: £350 (about $621)

Perhaps they're doing something more complex than what I was talking about, but if they aren't, they're just screwing people!

[lovekraft]

Installation: £200 (about $355)

Sounds reasonable to me - especially if they do a nice job.

Perhaps they're doing something more complex than what I was talking about, but if they aren't, they're just screwing people!

No, they're attempting to make a living - and in order to do that, they have to charge for all the time they spend on a job. They also have to be reasonably sure that their mods work, so there's testing involved. And then of course there's the inevitable warranty issue, insurance (because people sue all the time, for any reason whatsoever), and all kinds of little things that drive prices up. Can you do it cheaper? Of course! Can you do it as well? Unlikely, but that's about your skill level - if you're as good a tech, you too can command a premium price for your work, and hopefully make a living at it. In most cases, a vendor has to charge about three times his gross cost to break even - check this guy out:

The Pot

That's about $15 (£8.50) worth of parts at wholesale - he sells them for $95 (about £54). I doubt he's getting rich. I don't see any way I could personally justify paying that price (or Manson's), but I see why they have to charge that much. No offense meant, I just don't think that many people have any idea how expensive it is to be in business. The world looks a whole lot different when you have to make payroll every week. Again, I hope I didn't ruffle anybody's feathers, just my two cents. And you don't have to take my word for it - ask Zachary Vex.

[spirit]

Ah. I've had it explained to me. My Dad was saying the cost of the technicians time will be expensive because of the shops overheads, and will rack up quickly. I suppose I can see what they're on now.

EDIT: To Lovekraft: Yeh, like I just typed. I realise that now. I was just thrown by the price. I don't have acces to alot of money you see.

[lovekraft]

I was just thrown by the price. I don't have acces to alot of money you see.

Not a problem - I wasn't being critical of you, and I'm sorry if it came off that way (my wife always says I'm way too intense ). I understand the lack of access to cash, too - I'd encourage you to try doing it yourself, you'll learn a lot, and you might be the next big thing in UK guitar techs (in which case, I want a discount if I ever make it across the pond). Best of luck, you can't win if you don't play.

[Biohazard]

I disagree. It's not as simple as connecting guitar output to pedal input and pedal output to jack socket. The input of pedal, output of pedal, output of guitar, battery connections etc all have to go the switch, then the switch in the on position routes the signal through the pedal, and off it just simply bypasses it. That price is very reasonable because of the following:

the pedal itself is expensive because they are all handmade, and thats always more expensive than factory stuff;

they are modifying this expensive circuit;

they are taking your guitar and routing holes in it, they have to be precise;

each guitar wirings are slightly different;

if you are only having two of the five pots on the front, then they have to be moving the other pots around, therefore this will add to the price.

If you want two pots on the front, not all five, then you will have to alter the circuit, and if you've seen the circuit (which I have because I have one for my guitar), it is small, the tracks and holes to solder on to are small.

However, if you are wanting all five on the front, then it will simply be a case of wiring everything up to a switch.

All depends on how many pots you want on the front. How many do you want on the front?

[ansil]

realyy this isn't that complicated, u need to decide what controls u want on the front. which ones need to be readily accesable and for what size you want to use

u can also rebuild the fuzz factory on a 1" by 1" little square to make it fit better, it cost like 5 bucks counting hsiping to get it done for that. and put up the original board and such for collectors value.

using stero jack on the guitar input takes care of the switching system for power

using a push pull on the volume will make it true bypassable. use a concentric pot and put the main controls you want to on those and put the ones you dont' use as much on the bottom controls

and for my last point, depending on the guitar its put in, and assuming you already have a FUzz Factory that you woudl like to instal, i could do it for around 175-200 plus shipping.

[spirit]

the pedal itself is expensive because they are all handmade, and thats always more expensive than factory stuff;

However, if you are wanting all five on the front, then it will simply be a case of wiring everything up to a switch.

All depends on how many pots you want on the front. How many do you want on the front?

1. The price doesn't include the pedal

2. For the sake of ease, I would just want all the knobs on the front, and to wire the on/off to a DPDT switch, on the volume control.

[ansil]

drop me an email man, i may have a solution for you.

austenfantanio@yahoo.com

[Biohazard]

If you want all five on the front then thats ok then. Ansil, if your advice before was something to do with not using the pots that originally came soldered to the board then this would not work. Using any other pots on the fuzz factory board means it will not function properly. But yeah, all five on the front is simple, just wiring everything up to a DPDT switch and there you go.

[lovekraft]

Ansil, if your advice before was something to do with not using the pots that originally came soldered to the board then this would not work. Using any other pots on the fuzz factory board means it will not function properly.

Now I'm confused - could you explain that a bit more fully?

[Biohazard]

realyy this isn't that complicated, u need to decide what controls u want on the front. which ones need to be readily accesable and for what size you want to use

u can also rebuild the fuzz factory on a 1" by 1" little square to make it fit better, it cost like 5 bucks counting hsiping to get it done for that. and put up the original board and such for collectors value.

using stero jack on the guitar input takes care of the switching system for power

using a push pull on the volume will make it true bypassable. use a concentric pot and put the main controls you want to on those and put the ones you dont' use as much on the bottom controls

and for my last point, depending on the guitar its put in, and assuming you already have a FUzz Factory that you woudl like to instal, i could do it for around 175-200 plus shipping.

I interpret what I have just quoted above as Ansil meaning to connect the board to different pots than those that it comes with. This wont work, you can't use any other kind of pots because for some reason the Fuzz Factory doesn't function properly without the pots it came with. I don't know whether the same would happen if you rebuilt the board on a 1 x 1 board or whatever he mentioned earlier.

Sorry to confuse you.

[goth_fiend]

i dont see what the problem with using pots with the same resistance value would mess it up? im no electrical smarty but i dont think that would mess it up.

btw, one of my friends took a ds-1 and put it in his washburn, he just gutted it and stuffed it into his guitar basically, no problems there, but thats very simple circuit as it is....now he wants to put a whammy into another guitar

[MikeB]

im with goth fiend, get the correct type ie log or lin, get the same resistance values and it will work perfectly.

[spirit]

To stop this hi-jacking from going any further, that was not the solution Ansil was referring to.

[ansil]

hmm after reading this and looking at my factory, and laughing. as i went to radiosahck and bought a few 10k's and it works fine.

but i only replace with alpha pots anyway.

which is waht the factory uses.

[Biohazard]

Yeah, i was told that using any other pots wouldn't work, but if your using what the FF uses then it will work. But then why replace the pots if they are the original FF pots?