Prostheta

As an avid hater of Basswood, I am tempted to suggest using the existing body as a template for making one out of decent knotless wood :-D Or at least, make a second body so if you fubar the swirl you have a backup plan (plus practice under your belt). None of this will substitute practicing on scrap of course. Grab some scrappy hardwood from somewhere, sand/seal/prime etc. it as though you were finishing a real guitar and see where the materials and tools you have will take you. Remember to seal your bodies so the water doesn't get into screwholes, jackholes and other difficult to seal areas! Looks like a good project to work with however.

Thanks Erik, apologies for confusing the issue with the “no workshop” thing. I do have space to makes guitars, but it will mean setting up tools in limited or less-than-convenient space as opposed to my previous workshop where each tool and work area were set up permanently. This is why I would like to set up once and repeat the work over several workpieces rather than for one job. The price point will roughly be around the same point as the RG2228, but when you factor time in, that changes the ballpark hugely. My basic view on this is that the bulk of the work is repeatable and more economical on time, which I can handle gladly. The “standard” model will be a solid colour, same wiring setup, pickup configuration, tuner type etc. I can get a local custom painter I know to do the spray work over the bodies in a solid black with a final clear. If I get any requests for “custom” then the deposit paid will cover the expense of materials and specific work etc. I’m really not too bothered about profiting from this (apart from the experience profit) but having a couple of the finished items is good enough for me. I figure that any options I may be requested to do as custom, such as inlay, woods and paint etc. can be covered by deposit and preferably be outsourced. Inlay work to HuntinDoug, paint work to the custom bike painter, etc. All the underlying work which normally takes a lot of time is common to all of the builds – body carving, neck build, sealing etc. I don’t want to offer a “total custom” option as this is the territory of one-off builds again. Small personalisation options are a better idea, and this is more than you get with the RG2228…!

I'm not building anything groundbreaking TS, just a simple design with designed-in specs with a repeatable building process. I'm working on the figure of 10 instruments, but this depends on what kind of deal I might get on figured maple lumber and other materials. However many I build, I'll probably do around half as a "standard" spec for ease and simplicity of build, and the others with variations and "unique" additions like tops, binding etc. I'm possibly going to ditch the added complication of a seven-string and 27.5" scale. It would introduce too many more working procedures and this undermines the point of why I want to do this I guess. PS. Doug at Soulmate makes some awesome pieces. Totally different kind of target to where i'm aiming!

For what it's worth, I create templates for every single thing I make even if I have to make the templates by hand! Templates cause less tears when the router goes all cookie monster and chews into your workpiece :-D Except I use two bearings on my templating bits, but that's another story!

Probably not. That said, i've designed (well, refining once I build them and test on pine or whatever) jigs which will do that if the process of building is changed. I could easily build a paddle headstock neck and matching body blank with neck pocket, pup cavities, bridge stuff etc. I'm over in the UK though, so it kind of makes it uneconomical. I'm not planning on doing anything that any motivated amateur builder couldn't do, except I have more motivation to do crazy things than most :-D The problem with extended scale/range guitars is the balance issue (the Zeta's offset shape works nicely in that respect) and the higher fret access. It does mean a lot of guitar shapes are impractical and need designing out. If your guy has designs to work from the scales offered and has factored these issues in, then cool. I guess it means, "let's see what the summer has to bring"! Send me a PM with more info or whatever. I'm not closed off to options, but I don't want to blow a reasonably straightforward plan into something overly complex and too far from the original intent.

Do we have an official weight estimate of the finished project yet? That PH will be weighty for sure. Looking good otherwise! I have a huge almost-2m long neck-through piece of PH lumber I can't find a reasonable use for. It's just lethal on tools!

Okay, so two bottles of red purchased later.... I have come to the conclusion that one-off builds - although fun and create a lot of devotion to the workpiece - are economically wasteful in terms of usage of materials, time and stress. Also, tooling up jigs for one-offs is just as uneconomical also. I figured that the best medium between these would be to rocket-scientist out the spec on a build and do several at once. Individual differences, such as inlays, binding etc. can still be done between stages, but routing twenty pickup cavities one after another is a much better usage of time (although boring, no pun intended) and changing workpieces between jigs is no big deal if planned correctly. So that's it. I plan to make a significant maple and mahogany purchase this summer. I have plenty of wenge which i'll find time (and space) to resaw into laminates in the meantime. I'll be getting VERY antsy, not being able to build guitars (easily) for a few months, but i'm sure the bank balance will appreciate this, plus I can spend my time doing small jobs such as constructing tuner hole locating jigs, headstock shaping jigs and getting a bunch of 10mm Perspex templates laser cut. In the meantime, I have much music to make!!

Members who have read or glanced at my eight-string build threads will know that i've pretty much settled on a working spec for my (derived) design. I have however, moved house and no longer have a workshop to build from, which kind of makes everything a little more difficult when wanting to make more! In light of this, my idea was to spend the cold and wet months designing and building jigs to reproduce the work I did making my first two eight-strings, but in a more repeatable and controlled manner to reduce the random (read: human) error out of the whole process, and presumably increase the quality of output also. Most of the router/drilling/sanding jigs I build are cobbled together to meet a one-off need, and the ones I re-use aren't exactly bullet-proof either as I never envisaged making more than a few instrument using them anyway. I suppose I would like to hear some good opinion talking me out of my 2008 plan, or at least some good realistic comment on the pros and cons of my idea other than the obvious ones. The upshot of this is that I want to make a series of seven and eight string extended scale instruments which will compete as an alternative to the (pricewise, and in no other way) Ibanez RG2228. I don't perceive there to be much market for eight-strings anyway, so an amateur builder like myself would be silly to pitch price against an available quality instrument which is already on the market. All I can offer is an alternative which is more or less unique in design, spec and looks which can also perhaps appeal to guitarists outside of the metal eight-string market. The rough spec I have initially set the mark at is as follows: NECK - Bolt-on construction - 30" scale for eight-strings, 27.5" for seven-strings - Evo FWG110 jumbo fretwire with zero fret and brass guiding nut - 20" radius (considering 16") - Five-piece laminated neck of flame maple outers, two wenge laminates and a central hard maple core. - 13° headstock angle non-scarfed neck - Four over four headstock with raked tuners and recessed bushings - Choice of fingerboard. Mostly considering Macassar or African ebony which turn can be dyed instead of using Madagascan. Other woods under consideration are Madagascan and Indian rosewood. Side block inlays, simple "standard" dots or no inlays. - Custom length 20" (18.5" for 27.5" scale) single LMII double-acting truss rod BODY - Modified JEM or Zeta styles - Primarily mahogany or other woods as available - One or two EMG-808 pickups - String-through body Hipshot bridge - Electrics as required (default: volume/tone/[toggle]) - Dual 9v battery box to run an 18v circuit - Schaller Straploks Will elucidate further in a short while. Typed all this and my wife wants to go buy wine. Will follow up later....

+1 on the oversized bearing or wrapping tape around it! The other alternative if using a thick template is to pop a line of tape on the inside of the edge the bearing rides on which allows you to undersize the edges of the pocket, and if you don't put tape on the back, cut it to spec.

Sounds good. The stepping looks like a brief 80/120 grit sanding would get it flat before working up. I've been in a bit of a CNC mood this week, albeit just on the learning angle as I don't have the funds or the availability of a CNC right now. Are you making necks by hand, or do you have another CNC trick up your sleeve on this one also?

;-) Have you considered expanding the router program to include the control "dishes", post mountings and perhaps even edge binding channels? That would be perfect. Especially if you routed the rear cavity etc. also! Looking forward to seeing this progress. How long did the program take to complete, and how many tool changes did you have in there?

Sweet! Are there any alterations in plane on there though, for the neck angle, pickups and bridge?

Make a new body. It saves a lot of time and kicking yourself, and ultimately not being 100% happy with your build. Repairing and recovering can generally take more time and effort than starting from scratch believe it or not. Apart from the "or not" bit of course. That was me being polite :-D

Fert away Matt, fert away. Just stay near the window, there's a good chap.

Sorry for the lack of photos during my updates as I’m posting this at work until we have our interwebs installed in the new house….. I’ve finished the shaping of the headstock with the upwards-curved triangle thing (see my other eight-string for pics) but left the tuner recessing a little higher than previous. I also shaved off 3-4mm from the back of the headstock using a quickly knocked-up router thicknessing jig I brought this back to around where the volute starts to curve in. I carved a volute by firstly marking on the neck thickness taper on the side of the neck, marking where the volute ends (neck-side). I then bobbin-sanded a semi-circular dip into the back neck centred on that point down to within a millimetre of final neck thickness. I had marked both sides to make sure it’s symmetrical, although this isn’t hugely important as long as the centre is the correct thickness of course. I then bobbin-sanded another “dip” neck to the first one behind the headstock/nut area, but blended this one into the headstock thickness, ending nicely at the peak of the adjacent “neck dip”. I drew a nice curve from the outer corners of the headstock, over this dip outlining the volute and “peaking” where the two dips meet. I then removed wood with the bobbin sander to create the neck profile in the first dip and smoothed this up into the curve drawn in the headstock. Very very easy with a bobbin sander – easier than with a rasp, but I guess also easier to make a mistake. The fingerboard was glued up also. Pop in the truss rod, cover it with masking tape, spread on the Titebond, remove the masking tape and clamp on the fingerboard. Wonderful! I’ve also decided to go with a zero fret and guiding nut. After the fingerboard dried, I cut a binding channel on either side. I’ve decided not to bind the headstock as it just won’t look right in my opinion, and would be a pain anyway. I’ve introduced a lot of curves and changes in plane height and I think it would ruin the effect and the work put in. Tonight, I’m going to bind the bottom and back end of the fingerboard and get to work making a binding strip with yellow diagonal fret markers. That should be an adventure….if it doesn’t work, I’ll pop some brass tube into the drill press and core out some yellow Perspex plugs from the sheet and go for dots instead. I have a backup plan at least! If all goes well, I’ll dry fit the neck to the body and measure where the heel will sit and carve out the neck profile at the back end. I can’t wait to get the back profile done to reveal the flaming in this maple :-D

Unfortunately, we are in the process of moving house and I won’t have much opportunity to have a permanent workshop for luthiery. That and we currently have no connection to the internets. Anyway. The last bit of major work I did on this project left the neck blank scarfed up and ready to plane off on the top and side as cleanup, the body shaped with the horrendously large (and dangerous) 19.1mm roundover bit with a partial arm contour, and drilling for the string-through ferrules. Last night, I planed the top of the neck and routed a truss rod channel. Again, I’m using a single double-action rod from LMII as they’re nice and low profile compared to the Stewmac Hot Rods I’ve used previously, plus I used a custom length halfway between the “standard” guitar and bass rod length. The headstock and neck taper were rough-cut on the bandsaw to leave 2-3mm for the router to remove for final “coarse” shaping and to reduce the wear on my (expensive) router template bits. I made a separate headstock template (slender Ken Lawrence-esque) and screwed this to the headstock through the tuner mounting points rather than clamping. All good! A little shaping on the bobbin sander finished this off nicely. The headstock has been drilled with 10mm tuner mounting holes for the tulip-style tuners I have. I first drilled the centre points using a 1.5mm bit. I then sunk a 16mm Forstner bit into the headstock by 3-4mm using the centre point as a guide. Slowly and carefully!! If I decide, or need to recess the tuner bushings further then I have a good locating point to start from. I then drilled the 10mm tuner mounting holes through the entire headstock using the Forstner bit’s central mark as a guide. Perfect! Once I have the full headstock shaping on the top finished, I am planning on binding the headstock in black to match the fretboard as previously discussed. My next job to tackle is mounting the fretboard, cutting the excess off the sides using the bandsaw and a bottom-bearing template cutter. Before then, I do have to make the decision as to whether or not I’m installing a zero fret in addition to a nut mounted flush to the end of the fretboard. Has anybody got any opinions or advice on zero frets in terms of practicality, problems, benefits etc?

It shouldn't be a problem. I'm going to wait until I have shaped the neck taper angles before I do this one as the slight change in geometry will alter the marker distances marginally, so a straight 30" scale calculation will be slightly wrong....almost like intonation for side markers :-D

I bought an A4 sheet of 3mm yellow perspex off eBay which I can splice into the black binding and bond using acetone or CA. I'll use it end-on so we're looking at 3mm side markers, or at least 4.2mm across the top and bottom edges if they are angled at 45°. Fiddly work, but hey - challenges are what it's about!

If I could get ahold of some thin yellow binding or similar, I could make an edge binding and line the top and bottom with thin strips as you say. Almost like marquetry....i'll think on this one....no rush!

Wow - that's great news Doug! Good to hear that business is good and that your services are in demand and indeed expanding. You'll wonder what to do with your mornings till 2:00pm now ;-D Perhaps play guitar? heh! Thanks for the idea about the parallelogram side markers in the binding Wez. It's do-able, although i'm not sure if it would look right where the binding reveals at the top next to the fretboard. I have some spare inlay pieces from the original fretboard work (thanks again Doug!) so it's possible I could perhaps re-use some of these, although the look may not be correct. Best to offer them up to the semi-finished neck before I start binding and make the decision from there. Doug - would you be willing to run a quick turnaround job on a 5mm tall black strip of black acrylic with side-marker spaced 3mm parallelograms? I'm not sure on the resolution of the laser cutter (similar to the learning we made on the board!) but it would be something like this:

It is! Shame i'm in the UK and they don't ship over here though :-\ I received the neck bolts in the post today. I bought eight skateboard truck allen bolts which have a fine M5 thread and have been finished in yellow (heh). These will be set in using black ferrules so it should look awesome. I'm waiting on some M5 threaded brass wood inserts which i'll set into the neck. The bolts in the photo are the two out of the eight which I won't be using as the paint is either slightly scratched or just badly applied. The other six good examples have been taped to some cardboard until I reach final assembly. I need to find some yellow plastic 1.5mm-2.00mm rod for the side-dots....it seems plastic cocktail sticks are hard to find so i've been looking everywhere for all kinds of out-of-the-box items to use in substitution. How hard can this be!? Is there an embargo on thin yellow plastic rod in the UK or what!??! Arrrgh.

I counterpunch is a tool with a sharp point at the end which you tap with a hammer into material to make a guiding hole. I cheat by printing the ferrule layout with a laser printing with guidelines across and through the centreline, then popping the counterpunch on the crosses (corresponding with each ferrule) and give it a pop with my fretting hammer. When it comes to drilling, I use a lip and spur wood drill and make sure the spur aims into the pre-punched holes. A drill press is pretty much essential for accurate work like this of course.

Looks good. No neck angle to build in if done properly! I've found ferrules one of the hardest things to install well (straight) as the most minor imperfections end up making it look like a vintage Fender :-D Do you have a counterpunch handy?

-1 on safety. Rely on yourself, your sense and safety procedure as opposed to dropping all that in favour of something you have no guarantee will work, even if it does in theory. Which this doesn't. Unless you get hit with some crazy amped up megahurtz. Although +1 on the cap adding mojo somewhere, maybe.

A well-maintained and set up bandsaw with fresh blades to get as close as possible to the outline, and perhaps finishing with a robosander and extraction would achieve the end, but i agree that routers are unavoidably messy beasts!