seamusoc Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 So I'm planning on building a strat copy with all black hardware. I've people online recommending Wilkinson bridges with solid steel blocks. Does anyone here have any experience with them? I'm looking at the cheaper "WV6" bridge that is said to be on a par quality wise with an American standard bridge. The one I'm looking at is for sale here. If I was to go down the route of a cheaper bridge I was thinking of upgrading the saddles to rollers, but I've also spotted some Graphtech saddles that seem to be made out of a bone substitute, has anyone tried them? If so what did you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I would never use that style of trem unit.It is the least stable of all trems in my experience.Any strat i ever build will have this bridge http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/FT6B In whatever color I needed,because I had a Carvin strat in the past with that bridge and it feels and sounds the same (or better)without the stability issues. If I wanted a trem on it I would use a Floyd,because they are much more stable and are actually useful,and many Fender strats were stocked with them straight from the factory .If I was not concerned with it feeling like a strat I would use a Kahler because it is superior in every way. That "vintage strat" bridge is meant to be cheap...nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamusoc Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks for the quick answer, I might actually go for that because I've never even bought a trem arm for any of my guitars yet despite my best intentions. I'm trying to get the price down on the build in whatever way I can so that I have the money to spend on a very good set of pickups. Roller saddles yay or nay? Companies rave about them online (in order to sell them I suppose), but do they really make much of a difference? For crappier guitars maybe, but I've never had any problems with my strat's stock saddles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I like roller saddles on Kahlers because it makes sense on a cam style trem,but I don't have any use for them otherwise.The steel saddle that come with the Carvin are very nice all by themselves...I think in most instances graphite and rollers are mere marketing ploys. I do like the roller nut LSR makes,but it is pricey and a pita to install.On trems I always use a lock nut,but on fixed bridges I either make a nut from this faux tusk stuff I have or I buy an LSR(if the string pull is fairly straight) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamusoc Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks for showing me the Carvin website, seems too good to be true! Would most of the stock be high quality? Locking tuners/5-way strat switch especially? I'll probably go down the tusq nut route so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 All of the Carvin stuff is good quality IMO.I don't bother with their electronics,but have used most of the hardware at one time or another.They have quality products at reasonable prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamusoc Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 As you might have guessed this is going to be my first build. I've a 1997 Am. standard strat and I'm hoping to build something of the same (if not better) quality for around €600 (or $800). Have you used both their premium and locking tuners? If so how do they compare? The locking tuners seem a bit overly complicated but I want something with good tuning stability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Those tuners are fine,but I have been using these lately http://www.guitarfetish.com/Wilkinson-EZ-LOK-locking-Tuners-Black-6-inline-for-Fender-Headstocks_p_883.html It is just a staggered hole method of locking,and it works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Don't cheap out on the trem. A lot of times, the cheaper trems are made of softer alloys with loose tolerances. There is a definite difference between the budget Wilkinson and the higher grade Wilkinson stuff. After having used both, there's no way I'd go back to the cheaper stuff (Wilkinson/GFS and the like). In fact, I've removed those trems are replaced them with proper ones. Trem arm, springs, pitch are all better on the higher grade trems. I now use Hipshot trems. In terms of rollers, there's no real need for them IMO. I've got a few strats, one of which has non-locking Gotoh tuners, a Tusq xl nut and a regular 2 point strat trem. I can dive bomb the trem and it will always come back in tune. Locking tuners can help but the nut and trem/springs quality are the most important. The Graphtech saddles are nice. They'll change the tone somewhat vs all metal saddles but they now have metal saddles with tusq inserts which sound closer to metal saddles. Again, if you on a budget, just get a good trem and leave the saddles alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have to agree dont skimp on the trem tuners or truss rod. That being said if you like the looks of a vintage strat trem they arent all bad and set up properly can be made to stay in tune. I have a mim strat that will take a beating and stay in tune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamusoc Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 As I said, it's a first time build so if the guitar turns out well I can always upgrade the bridge afterwards. Living in Ireland means that the only bridges I've seen on guitars are either stock or Floyd rose, I've never played anything else so I have absolutely no idea what the quality is like from other companies. If I was looking for the cheapest trem system that was the same/slightly better quality than a MIA strat bridge, where should I look? Hipshot system is probably too dear for this build, the Carvin non-trem bridge is tempting but at the same time I'm not sure if I could build a non-trem strat and keep a clear conscience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 If this is a first time build I'd recommend carefully considering your abilities in installing a trem over a fixed bridge. Aligning and performing all the necessary routes and drilling can be quite challenging for a trem. At the very least read up thoroughly on the subject before committing. Fixed hardtail-stye bridge simplifies things considerably. I'll echo other suggestions and suggest not skimping on the bridge or tuners. If you're determined to do a trem install I personally really like the Wilkinson/Gotoh VS100 system (around $90-$110US depending on source). It won't offer the same level of tuning stability under Steve Vai abuse, but with proper setup will survive a divebomb and moderate manipulation without significant drift. There is a budget Wilkinson version of the same bridge called the WVS-50IIK which goes for about half the price, although I'm not sure how well this performs over (or under) the VS100. Guitar Fetish have something they call the "Wilkinson Stainless Trem" for $50US which looks a lot like the Wilkinson VS100, but appears to lack the Wilkinson logo stamped on the bridge plate. For hardtail options I prefer the Hipshot Hardtail bridge (around $60US on eBay). There are two versions, one has the more traditional "L" profile bent bridge plate, the other having the raised edges that enclose the saddles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Your looking at it the wrong way. You say you will upgrade later. Think of it this way, starting with good hard ware means if u make a playable guitar you save money if your first build sucks (probably will most do) you gave good hardware for the next try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan_kara Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I'd second the comment of curtisa about not putting a tremolo in your first build. I'm somewhere around my 5th and I am actually finishing up a strat with a trem and a V with a floyd. This is much less forgiving than just dropping in a fixed bridge. For a fixed bridge I wait until I have the neck fretted and on a stage that I can bolt it on in the neck pocket, and only then I recheck that I didn't mess up the centerlines and positions along the scale length etc, in fact what I usually do is take a top-loading bridge that I can attach strings to, I take the outer E strings and clamp the bridge to the body. The first time I did that I even intonated the strings to make sure the position is correct, in addition to checking that the strings actually run over the fretboard and parallel to the edges. Once I'm sure its ok, I mark the position or even drill the mounting holes already then. So with a tremolo this is more convoluted. You can of course take the trem block off, lay the trem on the body and do a similar thing. In some cases. But then you have to drill the holes for the posts and get them spot on. Then route all the cavities and get them spot on with relation to the holes. And so on. The margin for error is small at each step, though cleverly prepared templates can reduce the danger. I have no woodwork experience from before, so maybe I'm exaggerating but this is just something to consider. There is nothing wrong with a hardtail strat If you do decide to go for a trem - I have all three wilkinson trems at the moment - the VS100 in a strat and the VS50 and VS50II waiting to be put on current and future builds. The VS100 is a very solid unit for sure. The VS50 on the other hand does appear to have cut a few corners here and there. For example the plate to which the saddles are attached is completely flat - you can turn the saddles in various directions if you like. The VS100 has grooves for the adjustment screws to ride in. Funnily enough, the VS50II which is more or less the same price as the VS50 also has them. Or at least one IIRC. The other differece between the 50 and the 50II is the string spacing - 50II is more narrow, I think its the usual 10,5 vs 10,8 difference. Finally, the post spacing is different - the VS50II seems to have the same or close as other 2-point trems, VS50 has a slightly different configuration. I don't have real life usage experience from the 50-series though so I cant say how well they hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamusoc Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Your looking at it the wrong way. You say you will upgrade later. Think of it this way, starting with good hard ware means if u make a playable guitar you save money if your first build sucks (probably will most do) you gave good hardware for the next try. Well that's it decided then. I don't think that installing a trem bridge properly should be too much of a difficulty, I plan on making a lot of templates, etc. first, and I have a lot more woodwork experience than I do guitar hardware experience! I might go for a trem bridge build first and then do a tele type project afterwards. I'm guessing a tele might be a bit easier, but I have a strat here at home that I plan on taking apart (temporarily) and using that to compare all my drawings/templates to before I even start to cut/rout anything. So with all thoughts on skimping put firmly behind me, wilkinson or hipshot trem? Are wilkinson EZ lock tuners budget or high grade Wilkinson? They look brilliantly designed. What would you guys normally use? Thanks for all the replies, I'm learning a lot Although that's not saying much because I didn't know anything to begin with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 i had a set of Ez locks they where very unimpressive infact i ended up replacing them with standard tuners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 I have the EZ locks on my last two builds and they work great and cost half what schallers cost.Also,you can use them like standard tuners by merely only using one hole. The ones I did not like were these.Total crap http://www.guitarfetish.com/Gotoh-Style-BLACK-locking-tuners-True-mechanical-Lock_p_391.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) I should have prefaced my comment by saying i got mine from guitar fetish. I dont know if that makes a difference they did say wilkinson on them Edited February 22, 2014 by Tim37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan_kara Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I believe they're all made by a korean company called Jin-Ho: http://www.jinhomusic.com/wilkinson/wilkinson_2.html as you can see they make tons of different variations - top locking, ez-lock, back locking.. I used the back locking version on my Nylon 1 build. The quality of the mechanism seems very good, there's basically no slack in the gear movement. The edges of the posts are pretty sharp, already killed 2 high E nylons strings, the plating quality seems to be a bit lower and the tuner screws are soft and crappy. The other korean company that probably makes most of what shops sell as no-name is Sung-Il: http://www.sung-il.com/ here is also says they make TonePros ® and Floyd Rose Original ® hardware..?? They make the Wilkinson VS50 series bridges, the VS100 are made by Gotoh. As in the case of tuners, the tremolos are half the price of the Gotoh ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 In terms of Wilkinson vs Hipshot, having tried several of both, Hipshot is the way to go. The quality on the hipshot stuff is second to none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I actually prefer the GFS locking over hipshot griplocks. They are tighter tolerance. The hipshot griplocks feel loose and the pin doesnt go up and down evenly as you loosen it. Even the 100$ schaller locking are literally the identical thing to the GFS locking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilmourisgod Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Has anyone tried the "Bladerunner Super-Vee" temolo? Looks like an interesting concept: http://www.super-vee.com/ It uses spring steel fullcrum instead of screws or posts. I have an MIM strat with a standard 6-screw tremolo. I tried all the well known methods to stabilize tuning, tusq nut, locking tuners, etc., but ended up having to install a tremsetter to keep it in tune when bending strings. It works, but introduces a noticeable "bump" in the whammy bar operation that makes it hard to get a smooth vibrato. I have no interest in dive-bombing, just want a gentle vibrato or slight bending effect. Suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Try replacing the springs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 im home and on my comp so i will get a little more detailed first get some good springs if the springs dont return to there initial position nothing you will do will keep a trem in tune second http://www.fender.com/support/articles/stratocaster-setup-guide/ set up your trem according to fenders site it works. third watch the video these three simple steps will make more difference than locking tuners and roller nuts and all that bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Gilmourisgod is referring to the sympathetic dropping in pitch of all strings when bending one string against the trem spring tension when the trem is set up to float. By bending a string you're increasing tension which pulls the trem forward against the springs, lowering the pitch of the remaining strings. IME there is nothing that can prevent this on a floating trem without some kind of trade-off. Tremsetters and the like will limit this effect but introduce extra friction in the movement which can feel odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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