Dream Theater

[Gorecki]

Could use one more vote selection: Never Heard Them!

I've heard 'of' them but never heard them so couldn't provide an answer.

[daveq]

I really just wanted to poll people who have listened to their music to get their opinions but thanks anyway Goreki.

[GuitarMaestro]

I think DT's older stuff is wicked, the new stuff, so so, and live, well, James Labrie isn't a very good singer live.

How do you come to that conclusion? Are you talking about his show? There I would agree. But I have two live videos and attended two shows and everytime the vocals were so flawless it was unbelievable. I have yet to see a singer that nails every note as correct as him live. And I go to many live concerts.

I think Symphony X is a better band for talent, writing, and overall sound

I like them alot. But their sound is very one-dimensional: Neoclassical shred whereas DT is way more diverse, unique and innovative. SymphonyX is great, but what do they bring to the table that is or was new?

Well, he may be using it for things other than harmonizing. I have yet to use mine in that mode actually. I have found a setting that I really like and it doesn't use the diatonic shifting at all. After we move, I plan to get into at a deeper level and create some effects of my own but for now, I'm really happy with what I've got.

Interesting. I don't know much about the eventide and thought it is only pitch shifter/harmonizer. What else is it able to do? Maybe I should look into getting one....

[smitty]

I think DT's older stuff is wicked, the new stuff, so so, and live, well, James Labrie isn't a very good singer live.

I think Symphony X is a better band for talent, writing, and overall sound

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Symphony X's singer, Russel Allan, kicks LaBrie's ass. He's a really really good singer IMO.

[GuitarMaestro]

Symphony X's singer, Russel Allan, kicks LaBrie's ass. He's a really really good singer IMO.

Thats a question of taste. In terms of technique and intonation they are about equal in my opinion. Although I never saw Russel live. That said I am no huge fan of both singers styles.

[LGM Guitars]

I think DT's older stuff is wicked, the new stuff, so so, and live, well, James Labrie isn't a very good singer live.

How do you come to that conclusion? Are you talking about his show? There I would agree. But I have two live videos and attended two shows and everytime the vocals were so flawless it was unbelievable. I have yet to see a singer that nails every note as correct as him live. And I go to many live concerts.

I come to that conclusion by having seen them live, and seeing the DVD's, he's off key many times, he also does not have the power live that there is in the studio, just watch the scenes from NY DVD and listen to "silent man" I can't even sit through that song on that DVD he's off key so much.

I also disagree that Sy X is one dimensional compared to DT. I don't see DT doing anything vastly different from album to album either. It's all ice cream, but I can say from experience that from a technical point of view, Sy X is much more difficult to cover than DT. We used to play a few of each bands songs in the last rock band I was in, the DT stuff was far simpler to play, and the Sy X stuff still grooved better. well, IMO anyway

[GuitarMaestro]

I come to that conclusion by having seen them live, and seeing the DVD's, he's off key many times, he also does not have the power live that there is in the studio, just watch the scenes from NY DVD and listen to "silent man" I can't even sit through that song on that DVD he's off key so much.

I don't remeber that song. However on the latest DVD and the gigs I saw the singing was excellent. Sure any singer misses a note sometimes, but he really keeps it to a minimum. I have never seen Russel Allan live so I cannot comment on that....

I also disagree that Sy X is one dimensional compared to DT. I don't see DT doing anything vastly different from album to album either.

I called SY X one-dimensional in comparison because DT uses all styles from jazz/country to death metal riffs on each album whereas Sy X always plays the same malmsteen style shred that was not even a new style when they began.

The solos are always the same harmonic minor stuff. And harmonically there is not happening much. I know these things are not necessary for a band writing good songs and playing good music. BUT SY X cannot compete in musical diversity in my opinion. Although I like their style and music very much.

It's all ice cream, but I can say from experience that from a technical point of view, Sy X is much more difficult to cover than DT. We used to play a few of each bands songs in the last rock band I was in, the DT stuff was far simpler to play, and the Sy X stuff still grooved better. well, IMO anyway

Always depends on which songs you choose and what instrument you play. But if you mastered the speed you can play SY X wheres for DT you must also be able to solo over all these odd meters and play uncommon scales, etc. and be able to fit well into every musical style. Can you play "Erotomania" or the solo of "As I Am"? There are easier DT tunes and easier SY X tunes.

As you I learned alot of songs of both bands and think for DT you just need to be a broader trained musician.

[daveq]

The "Ultra Harmonizer" is a trademarked name and it's what they use for their multi-fx processors. Since the H3000, each harmonizer has had the ability to do diatonic shifting but what many people don't know is that these processors do a lot more than that.

It's difficult to say how many effects they have since you can build your own from existing modules such as filters, modulators, math blocks, shifters, delays, ... So, it's not like other processors where you just press the "chorus" button and adjust several settings for it. You can modify factory presets or build your own effects using PC/MAC software.

Now, that probably makes it sound extremely difficult to use but it's not bad at all. The 7500 has a large screen that allows you to edit settings and navigate through all of the options in an intuitive manner.

The bottom line is that the "Ultra Harmonizer" name is a little misleading. They do certainly harmonize but that's a small portion of the capability of these things.

Here's an example - the preset list for the DSP7500:

DSP7500 preset list

[Drak]

I read that list, and I am now officially scared sh*tless of that thing.

[daveq]

A bit off topic but -

We just did the move last night (a horrible experience) so I hope to be able to record a few things to demonstrate what it is capable of. The temporary place we are living in now doesn't have much space so I'm going to have to bribe the wife for a spot near the PC for my rack gear.

The harmonizers are definitely not for those who shy away from a bit of programming. You can find some decent factory presets but to really get the most out of it, you'll need to customize it yourself. That and the price tag are probably the biggest reason that they are so rarely seen in a typical rig.

BTW - I am still using my G-Major. The two units play very nicely together and expand the possibilities. People reading this are probably thinking that I'm creating this wall of sound and over-effecting but the sound I'm currently using is quite tame but nice and thick.

[LGM Guitars]

Can you play "Erotomania" or the solo of "As I Am"? There are easier DT tunes and easier SY X tunes.

As you I learned alot of songs of both bands and think for DT you just need to be a broader trained musician.

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Ironically, Erotomania was the first DT song we played in the band, as we didn't have a keyboard player I was forced to do not only the guitar parts but keyboard parts together, I worked out some nice 8 finger tapping sections in order to do both parts at the same time in places. That made it one of the most difficult songs I've ever learned, but the guitar or keyboard parts alone are very simple in that song. I grew up with bands like Rush and yes, meter, changing time sig's etc are not a big deal for me.

I'm not slamming DT, don't take it that way, but Labrie misses (or the time I saw them and the video's I've seen) more than a "few notes" in concert. You want to talk about a deadly singer who rarely misses anything, then that would be Geoff Tate from Queensryche.

I still disagree on your comments about Sy X not being able to compete with DT in diversity as they don't do the same styles that DT does, but the offer up other styles that DT doesn't do at all either, but again, it's all ice cream.

[GuitarMaestro]

Ironically, Erotomania was the first DT song we played in the band, as we didn't have a keyboard player I was forced to do not only the guitar parts but keyboard parts together, I worked out some nice 8 finger tapping sections in order to do both parts at the same time in places. That made it one of the most difficult songs I've ever learned, but the guitar or keyboard parts alone are very simple in that song.

After listening to the song again I have to admit I remebered it beeing more difficult. The basic stuff is not what I would call "very easy" though because there are many people not able to play that stuff. It might not be difficult for me or you to play but beeing able to play that is already a certain achievement. But some passages are definatley very hard in my opinion. For example I cannot imagine that you are abe to play the stuff between 5:00 and 5:30 really clean and with every noted picked. There are so many people saying "I played that and that and it was easy". However if you really are in a recording setting it will become obvious they cant. Being able to play something or beeing able to nail it perfectly is a huge difference. The last 2% percent of perfection are what takes 95% of the time to learn. If you can play that as perfect as the original then you are simply really good. But if you consider that part easy what's the difficulty playing Symhony X?

I grew up with bands like Rush and yes, meter, changing time sig's etc are not a big deal for me.

Again it's hard to judge without proof. Understanding and playing the different time signatures can be done by many. Getting it to groove and be perfectly tight is another story. And especially soloing over that stuff as Petrucci does. And I am not talking about playing something made up, I am talking about improvising. I don't want to make you sound like a liar. I am just sceptical. After all the majority of guitar players is not nearly as good as they tell everyone....

After thinking about it again I agree that if you can play Romeros solos you can play Petruccis solos and vice versa. But discussing what I or you can or cannot play will lead to nothing without proof and is not really fitting this thread.

I was just saying that I think DT are even better musicians than SY X.

What I think makes DT's accomplishment so difficult to suprass is the sheer complexity of the songs. They play a 2-3 hours set each evening. And they play different songs each evening. Many of these songs have about as many different riffs/ideas/parts/meter changes as the half of a Symphony X album. And despite this complexity they still they play so tight and perfect and so relaxed it seems like it is not even a challenge for them. And thats the reasons why I consider them better musicians than Symphony X. Though I don't want to diss them. They are a great band and I respect them very much.

P.s.: You seem to be a good player. Do you have any recordings online? I am always interested in hearing good musicians....

[daveq]

How about yourself Marcel - do you have any recordings online? I know you said that you are currently in a couple of bands - do any of them have a site with some mp3's (or other format)? I wish we had a place here to post clips - maybe a pinned thread?

[GuitarMaestro]

I am currently rebuilding a homepage and rerecording songs with our new singer. I will definately post some songs as soon as I am done. Maybe I will also dig up some old ones when site is done.

[westhemann]

P.s.: You seem to be a good player. Do you have any recordings online? I am always interested in hearing good musicians....

i heard a small clip jeremy posted once and i will just say that,from what i remember,i have no difficulty believing he can play what he said he can play and do it cleanly.i remember wondering how a guy who spends all his time building finds time to keep his chops up at that level.

it was not my type of thing,but it was very good,if memory serves

i have never heard anything from you though ,maestro,but i look forward to it.

[SprocketBoy]

First off im a huge fan of Dream Theater, some of the most masterfull musicians ever. I was listening to them back when they were called Majesty, i had a friend in high school back in '89 let me hear this bootleg tape he got back when he was in New York and i was blown away by what i herd and then of course James Labrie replaced Charlie Dominici and they became Dream Theater. I know some on here aren't too fond of Labrie's singing and i understand why but i still think he's a talented singer and his vocal range is awesome. Symphony X....wow thats another awesome band, Mike Romeo's guitar playing is very simular to Yngwie "neoclassical" but in ways shreds just as hard as Petrucci. Russell Allen's voice is pretty awesome as well, at times its alittle rough but it fits with the bands flavor. All in all i really think D.T. and Sy. X are tow of the greatest Progressive Bands out their you can't help but immers yourself in the diverse flow of the music these two bands put out. Also another band i think should be mentioned and has some awesome musicians plus a really good singer is Threshold, these guys are from the UK and im soooo blown away by their musician. Now they aren't real heavy as D.T. and Sy.X but the flow they have is...refreshing...i highly recomend listening to them.

[LGM Guitars]

For example I cannot imagine that you are abe to play the stuff between 5:00 and 5:30 really clean and with every noted picked.

I'll never understand why people say things like that about guitarists who aren't "famous".

Petrucci is just another guitar player, when I was at NAMM I heard 100 different players who all played just as clean and fast as he does but aren't famous. Remember the best guitar player in the world is probably some kid who will never leave his basement.

In all honesty, I think Petrucci, Vai, Romeo, all those guys are wicked, but I have heard guitarists in other genre's that could smoke every one of them in speed and clarity. I don't judge how good a guitarist is by how fast they can play that's for certain. I can play as fast as I want when I want to, I spent many years developing speed techiniques, but that doesn't really do it for me.

I'll see if I can dig up some recordings I have that are more recent and try to get them online. I'm far from a phenominal guitar player, after being at NAMM, I don't even know if I consider myself that good anymore, but I enjoy it so that's really all that matters. For a challenge to myself I like to play the most technical stuff I can. Petrucci is fast and creative, but on a technical level he's not doing the crazy things like Romeo is. Romeo was the reason I learned multi finger tapping, Gilbert was where I learned string skipping, for pure technicallity, Romeo and Sy X are one of my favorite bands. Don't get me wrong, I love DT, I really do, they just don't amaze me anymore. Their newer stuff is getting boring, old DT is where it's at AFAIC.

Anyway, here is one song I do have online, it's about 5 years old and was written, sequenced, and recorded all within about an hour after I was mugged one evening.

The guitar tone sucks, it's just straight into a boss BR8, but hey, it's all I have on here for now

enjoy.

http://pics.lgmguitars.com/pics/Dont_let_go.mp3

[GuitarMaestro]

I'll never understand why people say things like that about guitarists who aren't "famous". Petrucci is just another guitar player, when I was at NAMM I heard 100 different players who all played just as clean and fast as he does but aren't famous.

Most of them are not famous because they are not as good on all levels. There is a reason some players are famous and some not. I know enough people how can play cleaner and faster as Petrucci but that does not make them great songwriters and performers.

In all honesty, I think Petrucci, Vai, Romeo, all those guys are wicked, but I have heard guitarists in other genre's that could smoke every one of them in speed and clarity. I don't judge how good a guitarist is by how fast they can play that's for certain. I can play as fast as I want when I want to, I spent many years developing speed techiniques, but that doesn't really do it for me.

I NEVER wrote that I rate guitarists by speed. And in fact I would never do so because speed is nothing if the notes are boring. And I NEVER wrote that Petrucci or Romeo are the best in term of technique. Don't know where you got that from.

I already stated why I consider DT better musicians. It does not matter to me who is faster or if Romeo is better or Petrucci. I just stated that to me DT's songs are way more complex and impressive. Although I have to admit that this might not be true for some of the solos.

Additionally I never wrote that I think nobody can play the Erotomania solo or play Petrucci's/Romero's leads. I just was sceptical as you wrote that Erotomania is a "very simple" song. I know many unknown players who could play it easily. The teachers at MGI for example are insane. I just wanted to make sure this is no hollow statement....but after hearing your mp3 I don't doubt you can play that song.

[smitty]

For example I cannot imagine that you are abe to play the stuff between 5:00 and 5:30 really clean and with every noted picked.

I'll never understand why people say things like that about guitarists who aren't "famous".

Petrucci is just another guitar player, when I was at NAMM I heard 100 different players who all played just as clean and fast as he does but aren't famous. Remember the best guitar player in the world is probably some kid who will never leave his basement.

In all honesty, I think Petrucci, Vai, Romeo, all those guys are wicked, but I have heard guitarists in other genre's that could smoke every one of them in speed and clarity. I don't judge how good a guitarist is by how fast they can play that's for certain. I can play as fast as I want when I want to, I spent many years developing speed techiniques, but that doesn't really do it for me.

I'll see if I can dig up some recordings I have that are more recent and try to get them online. I'm far from a phenominal guitar player, after being at NAMM, I don't even know if I consider myself that good anymore, but I enjoy it so that's really all that matters. For a challenge to myself I like to play the most technical stuff I can. Petrucci is fast and creative, but on a technical level he's not doing the crazy things like Romeo is. Romeo was the reason I learned multi finger tapping, Gilbert was where I learned string skipping, for pure technicallity, Romeo and Sy X are one of my favorite bands. Don't get me wrong, I love DT, I really do, they just don't amaze me anymore. Their newer stuff is getting boring, old DT is where it's at AFAIC.

Anyway, here is one song I do have online, it's about 5 years old and was written, sequenced, and recorded all within about an hour after I was mugged one evening.

The guitar tone sucks, it's just straight into a boss BR8, but hey, it's all I have on here for now

enjoy.

http://pics.lgmguitars.com/pics/Dont_let_go.mp3

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nice guitar solo

some of the whammy bar is slightly vai-like, but that's not a bad thing.

to make this post related to dream theater or something, the music in that song is a more classic rock than prog rock type of thing. not very dream theater, which isn't a bad thing, lol.

[BLS]

IMO DT has much better song writing than Symphony X, I just cant get over the cheese factor of Symphony X.. Romeo is amazing but my god its funny.