david.allgayer Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Hi, I recently found out that it is possible to buy hand-made varitones for not too much money via ebay and other websites. This got me to thinking about installing one on my Gibson Blues Hawk. Now, the Gibson Blues Hawk already has a varitone installed originally, so I was wondering if anybody could tell me (or hasard a guess) at what would happend if I installed a second one? Could I add the effects? Would it just ruin the sound? I don't want to install it and then find out it doesn't work, so any guesses you can give me are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 i think whatsisname here makes those...bigdguitars i guess he would know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalo1022 Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 if i am correct a varitone is basically just a rotary pot with a bunch of diffrent values of capicitors. so by adding a second one you will have 2 tone circuits in line. ive seen, heard or really thought of this idea but hey it might be interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdowney Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 it would depend of how you wire the 2 varitones. if you have 2 capaciters lets say a .1uf and a .047uf and you wire them in parallel the values will add up and have the same value as a .147uf cap. but if you wire them in series the 2 values cancel each other out and you would have the same value as a .53uf cap. so you will get alot of tonal variations because all varitone controls are is a rotary swich with 5 or 6 different caps. it could sound really muddy and gross or very good. email the guy at bigdguitars i bet he can give you a better answer. matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 Yes, the effect of a Varitone is accumulative when two are wired together but there are options. Put one on each pickup and they are added together only when the selector switch is in blend. Put them on the 2 and 4 position of a 5-way and you can pick which one is in effect. Put them both on a 2-way mini switch before the output jack and you can select the desired tone regardless of the selector switch position. Lovecraft could tell you about 500 other ways to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdguitars Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 you guys are right on. I have had guys wire them in a bunch of different options but never two in series? that would be kinda goofy... you could experiment and see? and let us know? the most popular mod that I have seen guys do is create a variable varitone, by adding a 250k pot in line and bleeding it down to ground. just depends on how adventurous you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.allgayer Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Wow, that is pretty cool! I thought the only thing I could do was put them in series, but one on each pickup or in parallel, now that is nice. So, the original Gibson one on my Blues Hawk affects bot pickups, so I'd have to get it rewired to separate them out and put one varitone on each pickup, right? My aim is to increase the number of tonal variations I can get out of the guitar though, so one on each pickup wasn't what I had in mind, but more like both on both pickups so I can add both effects on both pickups in any position of the selector. Now, if I have two varitones in series, I can put one on bypass and just get the effect of the original varitone. I think I need to have a chat with bigDguitars to find out exactly what to do, and also with a luthier to see if I could even pay for the mod... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 You guys really mean in parallel, right? In series would mean hooking up the second varitone to what would normally be the ground lead of the first. That doesn't seem like a good idea, since the second would simply interfere with the first, but two in parallel, perhaps with a pot on each like BigD suggests, might give you a dual notch filter that could be useful. For more variation, you could scale the cap values slightly on the second switch so the notches would be at different frequencies. Lots of classic recording consoles used similar circuits for their EQ sections, so there's a lot of potential there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 I meant in parallel. Don't know about the rest of the posts. Got kinda confusing for a while there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.allgayer Posted February 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Well, Actually I didn't quite know what I meant, but it's clearer now, it's definitely parallel... Gotta read some electronics for dummies or somesuch guide though first I think By the way, can anybody tell me if there's like a chart that tells you what kind of capacitor gives what kind of sound or is that just something you figure out after installing the varitone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 (edited) David, noone(except maybe Lovecraft) can make a Varitone circuit that will work exactly the same on every application due to pickup variations and such so to get the range of tonal variations YOU want, clip in a bunch of different caps (this'll break the bank) and see what you like. You get to choose, what 5 or 6? then hardwire them boogs in der. Edited February 25, 2005 by thedoctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donbenjy Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 doesn't have to break the bank, some companies do send out free samples of a few caps etc. or you could check old circuitboards in dead electrical things and take them from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Ceramic caps are pretty cheap, and even film caps shouldn't be much more than a quarter apiece, so that shouldn't be a problem - the big expense is going to be the inductor, unless you've already found one. You can use small telecom or modem transformers as inductors and get good results if you're clever - Torres has been doing it for years. If you're looking for more audio quality, Opamp Labs offers a multi-tap inductor for about $10.00 that should keep you busy from now on. The possibilities are staggering, limited only by your switching (well, not exactly, but with 5 caps, that's 45 possibilities - the mind boggles!!). FWIW, 'regular" varitones generally use a 1.5H inductor and caps in a range between .001uF and .1uF. thedoctor makes a good point in that the impedance of the pickups and the volume and tone controls will interact with the varitone somewhat, although the effect will not be massive, but there will probably be some minor tweaking necessary to find the "sweet spot" for any given setup. Of course, if you slap an active buffer in front of it, and buffer the output, you've got a stable unit that sounds the same in any application (but that's another project ). If you'd like to play around with it without investing too much, you can use a Mouser TL024 transformer (about $1.50 - the primary is about 1.5H, so just clip and tape off the secondary wires), and an assortment of ceramic or film caps to get started with, and throw in a Lorlin 12 position rotary switch when you've narrowed down the choices a bit! Have fun!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.allgayer Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 Nice idea! Thanks doctor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.allgayer Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Ceramic caps are pretty cheap, and even film caps shouldn't be much more than a quarter apiece, so that shouldn't be a problem - the big expense is going to be the inductor, unless you've already found one. You can use small telecom or modem transformers as inductors and get good results if you're clever - Torres has been doing it for years. If you're looking for more audio quality, Opamp Labs offers a multi-tap inductor for about $10.00 that should keep you busy from now on. The possibilities are staggering, limited only by your switching (well, not exactly, but with 5 caps, that's 45 possibilities - the mind boggles!!). FWIW, 'regular" varitones generally use a 1.5H inductor and caps in a range between .001uF and .1uF. thedoctor makes a good point in that the impedance of the pickups and the volume and tone controls will interact with the varitone somewhat, although the effect will not be massive, but there will probably be some minor tweaking necessary to find the "sweet spot" for any given setup. Of course, if you slap an active buffer in front of it, and buffer the output, you've got a stable unit that sounds the same in any application (but that's another project ). If you'd like to play around with it without investing too much, you can use a Mouser TL024 transformer (about $1.50 - the primary is about 1.5H, so just clip and tape off the secondary wires), and an assortment of ceramic or film caps to get started with, and throw in a Lorlin 12 position rotary switch when you've narrowed down the choices a bit! Have fun!! ← Wicked! Thanks for all the tips. Just gotta make this work now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 (edited) My comment that "this'll break the bank" was, of course, sarcasm. I think a big assortment of caps and baby inductors are the devil's playground. And I like his playground. Pay close attention to Lovecraft and learn. Edited March 11, 2005 by thedoctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.