Jivin Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Maybe he is enjoying what he is doing. I certainly didn't enjoy St. Anger and a lot of their newer stuff, and thats dissapointing because I am a big fan of Kirk Hammett and James Hetfield (although I do agree kirk overdoes the wah ), however if he is enjoying what he is doing then that is what he will keep doing... I guess. If by "demonstrating it every day" you mean pushing his boundaries on the guitar, then I couldn't agree more. Outside of that, he should do whatever he wants to do musically, regardless of his talent. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfsd Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 ok, if there are no repeats, listen to the beginning of the string crossing lesson....right after he talks about michael angelo, when he flips the switch on the guitar, the string noise is definitley echoing.....try turning your speakers up...... still, i'm not knocking the guy....i actually like some of his stuff...even with creed.... steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Yep, you're right, there is delay. However, if you're listening and watching his fingers, it's pretty clear that it's not a slap-back delay intended to "double" each of the notes he plays. It's an ambient delay, which produces a spatial effect. So, I'll admit to being wrong about the delay, but I maintain that he's not using it for "cheat" shredding. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Has anyone seen Petrucci's rock discipline? Now that's fast, but even he uses delays live. My philosophy, if it sounds good, don't knock it. There's always someone faster and better than anyone out there. Plus, he's making quite a bit of money out of what he does, so give the man his dues! (oh plus they rock live *humms sweet child of mine*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 thankyou! there was a delay - he aint using it to double the notes, but like wha - you can use it to hide sleight mistakes and fake a greater sustain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 you can use it to hide sleight mistakes and fake a greater sustain. ← I thought that this was a common practice on shredders? There is a very small amount of the m that does it completely clean.and most of those are chocking their mistakes with the noise suppressors, so I think it's the same. Jivin, I undestand that point, but the fact about metallica that made a lot of young guys look up to them, if I'm not wrong was that fast playing and the lightning fast solos, to take them away from their music is like taking the interesting part away from it. To this point I have every CD that came oput from them except StA. It just doesn't move me to buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 you can use it to hide sleight mistakes and fake a greater sustain. ← Jivin, I undestand that point, but the fact about metallica that made a lot of young guys look up to them, if I'm not wrong was that fast playing and the lightning fast solos, to take them away from their music is like taking the interesting part away from it. ← Oh I agree wholeheartedly... I wish they would get back to the good stuff too, I was just meaning their motiviation for such a change might well just be enjoyment... and who are we to say they cant just do what they enjoy (as much as it may not be appealing to most). Moreover, there isn't really any reason why Kirk should be flaunting his skills just because he has them. Sure he has worked extremely hard to acheive what he has on the guitar, but if I was in his boots (), I would like to think my skills would show through in my songwriting, but I certainly wouldn't think like I HAD to show them off at any given oppurtunity "just because". fast playing and the lightning fast solos, to take them away from their music is like taking the interesting part away from it. Don't forget they took away the brutal riffage too - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Don't forget they took away the brutal riffage too don't remind me.for me,that is like the biggest travesty i have ever seen. i mean...i used to love metallica more than oksana bauil in that catholic schoolgirl outfit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Churchyard Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Has anyone seen Petrucci's rock discipline? Now that's fast, but even he uses delays live. My philosophy, if it sounds good, don't knock it. There's always someone faster and better than anyone out there. Plus, he's making quite a bit of money out of what he does, so give the man his dues! ← Britney makes also quite a bit of money out of what she does. No way I am gonna give her her dues. And Petrucci owns Tremonti a thousand times. (Vai, on the other hand, owns both twice as much). I know a thousand guitarists that are as fast or faster than Tremonti, and most of them have got more musical taste as well. From one article with a sort of workshop with Tremonti I got to know more about his "compositional skills" and "technique". He is an overrated dumb guy. He's got no talent at all. By the way, I heard clips of Tremonti with less effects and distortion. It sounded like pure $%&/§$?€. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Churchyard Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) We're obviously not looking at the same clip, or you're using the wrong terminology. When he stops playing, there are absolutely no repeated notes. With an echo/delay, you would still hear his last notes repeating at least once more. :? ← greg, it depends on the time settings. A small delay time is what we are talking about. Long delays (I always have to think of the Surrounded solo or some Albert Lee stuff) that doubles notes does not help hiding flaws but instead repeats them making them more audible! Edited May 9, 2005 by Mr.Churchyard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Has anyone seen Petrucci's rock discipline? Now that's fast, but even he uses delays live. My philosophy, if it sounds good, don't knock it. There's always someone faster and better than anyone out there. Plus, he's making quite a bit of money out of what he does, so give the man his dues! ← Britney makes also quite a bit of money out of what she does. No way I am gonna give her her dues. And Petrucci owns Tremonti a thousand times. (Vai, on the other hand, owns both twice as much). I know a thousand guitarists that are as fast or faster than Tremonti, and most of them have got more musical taste as well. From one article with a sort of workshop with Tremonti I got to know more about his "compositional skills" and "technique". He is an overrated dumb guy. He's got no talent at all. By the way, I heard clips of Tremonti with less effects and distortion. It sounded like pure $%&/§$?€. ← Who really gives a crap how he writes stuff? If he's so dumb, and you, apparently, are so smart, why is he the one living the dream? I call it smarts and hard work. You don't become one of the best known bands in the world by being dumb, that's for sure. He writes what's popular, and supports himself (very well I might add), so you basically call him a wanker. When you're on the top of the charts I might be a bit more apt to listen to your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 oh good grief. i hadn't seen what this thread had turned into. Any interviews i've read with tremonti, i've always been impressed with his work ethic. He's gotten to where he is because he works hard and he doesn't mind touring 365 days a year if that's what it takes. The idea of a "hard working band" is less and less common these days. Everyone wants to think that they are so great that once they are "discovered" they will make it big. You look at the bands with staying power, i guarantee you're looking at people that didn't think that way. They worked extremely hard to get to the top, and keep working hard to stay there. I agree with devon, for all the people I hear bash musicians i always think to myself "when you have a record deal, i'll care about your opinion" It's easy to sit back and bash other musicians. But even then, i really wouldn't. I'm old enough that I remember when metallica frist started. Every single time they put out a new album, a bunch of people would be running around calling them "sellouts" saying that they suck, and that there will bnever be another album like (insert your favorite album here).. and you have legions of kids that will argue which album marked their last "real" work.. The younger they are, the more recent that line is drawn. Bands evolve, people change, people get better and there are always armchair quarterbacks that would rather rant about musicians they don't like rather than putting that energy into practice. I'm not going to have one negative thought about anyone that steps up and evolves or makes themselves better, even if it's not my type of music. Music is art, art is subjective, and if anyone thinks that they have the one and only answer concerning someone else's art, they need to have their head or ego checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Has anyone seen Petrucci's rock discipline? Now that's fast, but even he uses delays live. My philosophy, if it sounds good, don't knock it. There's always someone faster and better than anyone out there. Plus, he's making quite a bit of money out of what he does, so give the man his dues! ← Britney makes also quite a bit of money out of what she does. No way I am gonna give her her dues. And Petrucci owns Tremonti a thousand times. (Vai, on the other hand, owns both twice as much). I know a thousand guitarists that are as fast or faster than Tremonti, and most of them have got more musical taste as well. From one article with a sort of workshop with Tremonti I got to know more about his "compositional skills" and "technique". He is an overrated dumb guy. He's got no talent at all. By the way, I heard clips of Tremonti with less effects and distortion. It sounded like pure $%&/§$?€. ← Who really gives a crap how he writes stuff? If he's so dumb, and you, apparently, are so smart, why is he the one living the dream? I call it smarts and hard work. You don't become one of the best known bands in the world by being dumb, that's for sure. He writes what's popular, and supports himself (very well I might add), so you basically call him a wanker. When you're on the top of the charts I might be a bit more apt to listen to your opinion. ← just pure jealousy really,devon.i like creed,although i never liked them enough to know who the guitarist was(before this topic)i think they have a good sense of musicality...just to be clear,i only disagree with the proposal of tremonti being "fast"...he is not really "fast" in any way.that in no way lessens his musicianship in my eyes though. I'm old enough that I remember when metallica frist started. Every single time they put out a new album, a bunch of people would be running around calling them "sellouts" saying that they suck, and that there will bnever be another album like (insert your favorite album here).. and you have legions of kids that will argue which album marked their last "real" work.. The younger they are, the more recent that line is drawn. yeah...true enough.i was a fan from kill em all to and justice for all. I'm not going to have one negative thought about anyone that steps up and evolves or makes themselves better, even if it's not my type of music. Music is art, art is subjective, and if anyone thinks that they have the one and only answer concerning someone else's art, they need to have their head or ego checked. i don't know if that is meant for me or just a general rant...but as for my OPINION...i do not like anything metallica has done since the eightees.as far as a FACT...their music is much less technically proficient than it once was...that is just reality.it takes nowhere near the prowess to play the new tunes as it took pre-black album. unfortunately,that is what i loved about metallica...FORTUNATELY,there have been others who stepped up and filled the void metallica left when they left metal and turned hard rock. i just really miss hetfields voice...what is up with his new less musical voice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 i don't know if that is meant for me or just a general rant...but as for my OPINION...i do not like anything metallica has done since the eightees.as far as a FACT...their music is much less technically proficient than it once was...that is just reality.it takes nowhere near the prowess to play the new tunes as it took pre-black album. no that wasn't directed at you.. i don't mind someone critiquing someone, with valid points.. it's the idea of "he sucks.. he's an idiot.. he can't play the guitar worth a *#&$#" when the person clearly has proven enough ability to be successful.. Critique is fair and objective.. the other is just uninformed opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 i don't know if that is meant for me or just a general rant...but as for my OPINION...i do not like anything metallica has done since the eightees.as far as a FACT...their music is much less technically proficient than it once was...that is just reality.it takes nowhere near the prowess to play the new tunes as it took pre-black album. no that wasn't directed at you.. i don't mind someone critiquing someone, with valid points.. it's the idea of "he sucks.. he's an idiot.. he can't play the guitar worth a *#&$#" when the person clearly has proven enough ability to be successful.. Critique is fair and objective.. the other is just uninformed opinion. ← i totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Cmon wes, you gotta admit, Black album still had a chug! it just had more bass lol - please dont kill me I should quickly add though, Justice was without a shadow of a doubt the pinnacle for me... but I would say I still enjoyed the black album... which on the whole is probably more than I could say for the albums that followed. Yes it was definitely less technically proficient, no arguments there, but it still had some good riffs and a good amount of chunk Holier than Thou is still one of my favorite songs to crank out, and its always goes down well even with metal fans who hate the album I agree with your metal turning into hard rock statement though wes, and given that viewpoint, I can totally see where you are coming from. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Cmon wes, you gotta admit, Black album still had a chug! it just had more bass actually...the bass was less prevelent.the mids were a bit less scooped though. the production value of that album was very good...the guitar sound was excellent.the song writing was even very decent...but it was a big let down for me in that it was nowhere near as aggressive or tecnical as the earlier albums. and before it was released,metallica was claiming it was a return to the simple agressiveness of "kill em all" in other words...they lied to their fans at the time.now those fans are no longer fans.they cultivated a whole new fan base of early and pre-teens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Churchyard Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Who really gives a crap how he writes stuff? If he's so dumb, and you, apparently, are so smart, why is he the one living the dream? I call it smarts and hard work. You don't become one of the best known bands in the world by being dumb, that's for sure. He writes what's popular, and supports himself (very well I might add), so you basically call him a wanker. When you're on the top of the charts I might be a bit more apt to listen to your opinion. ← Do not infer about my character if you don't know me. That's not very kind of you, you're reacting as if Tremonti was your brother You're obviously assuming I am the usual untalented constantly envious wanker who calls others untalented wankers and thinks he himself is the next best thing... Well you may think that if you want I think the basic thing is that we are judging by different standards... What I was saying is: Tremonti's technique is not great (though: he got considerably better since the early creed days... No wonder if you got Troy Stetina and co. as teachers!). And he's got almost no idea about theory. At least he admits that. By the way, if you want to know, in my opinion I am a horseshit musician... But if I were to judge other musicians comparing them to me, well then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 in other words...they lied to their fans at the time.now those fans are no longer fans.they cultivated a whole new fan base of early and pre-teens ← And as much as that sucked (i didn't like the black album) i think that's why they survived.. EVERYONE in highschool listened to the black album, and all the young skate punks ate it up. All the original fans scratched their heads and wondered what the hell happened I remember once they did a live request show on head-bangers ball.. someone called in and said "play sandman dude.." they all looked at each other and said "naaahhhh" I thought that was hilarious. When you're sick of your own song it tells you something. I guess the alternative is to do like AC/DC and never change your formula.. not that I don't like AC/DC but it's been a pretty safe trip for those guys.. nothing cutting edge. Stick to what works I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Do not infer about my character if you don't know me. That's not very kind of you, you're reacting as if Tremonti was your brother You're obviously assuming I am the usual untalented constantly envious wanker who calls others untalented wankers and thinks he himself is the next best thing... Well you may think that if you want I think the basic thing is that we are judging by different standards... What I was saying is: Tremonti's technique is not great (though: he got considerably better since the early creed days... No wonder if you got Troy Stetina and co. as teachers!). And he's got almost no idea about theory. At least he admits that. By the way, if you want to know, in my opinion I am a horseshit musician... But if I were to judge other musicians comparing them to me, well then... ← He is an overrated dumb guy. He's got no talent at all. By the way, I heard clips of Tremonti with less effects and distortion. It sounded like pure $%&/§$?€. That right there is what set me off. I wasn't trying to flame you (which I think I may have done ) and for that I apologize. My point remains the same, you're saying that the guitarist for one of the biggest bands is 'an overrated dumb guy'. Now does that make any sense to anyone? If you would've said, "He's not very fast, and he doesn't know alot of theory," that would have been fine by me. When you come in completely antagonizing someone, even Britney (she must be doing something right!) that's a different story. When you get to his level, you can say he sucks, deal? I work darn hard on my playing skills a lot of the time, and I can't dream about sweeping like he was. He's easily top 5% of the player population from what I've seen around here. Sure, there are better guys, but that doesn't make him bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 just my take: you can critisize his technique and musicality, and call him overrated (musically) but i would not condone calling him an idiot, or anyone who can get soo much fame and cash and fans! there are 10001 fast guitarists, but are there that many as famous as him? NOPE! i normally dont argue about guitarists im not partial to - but he HAS done something right to get where he is now, and shredding aint it! if you had to shred to get famous and only shred he wouldnt be on the list! but hard work got him there, thats why i hate american idol, and all those things, they get HANDED!!! a contract, where me (not being arrogant, but my band kicks the ass of ANYONE in american idol and them some!) will have to slog it out for ages before anything happens, but i plan to get there by being determined, writing killer music, and hard work. so he isnt the best shredder, he is okay - but he has got somewhere, which must be respected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Well said. If someone wants to make a living in music, i say go for it. You can make a living even if you don't "make it big" but so many people give up cause they think "if i just get that demo online someone will discover me and i'll get a free pass to the big-time" Every now and then that happens, but most successful musicians worked their asses off to get there.. and ate lots of ramen soup just my take: you can critisize his technique and musicality, and call him overrated (musically) but i would not condone calling him an idiot, or anyone who can get soo much fame and cash and fans! there are 10001 fast guitarists, but are there that many as famous as him? NOPE! i normally dont argue about guitarists im not partial to - but he HAS done something right to get where he is now, and shredding aint it! if you had to shred to get famous and only shred he wouldnt be on the list! but hard work got him there, thats why i hate american idol, and all those things, they get HANDED!!! a contract, where me (not being arrogant, but my band kicks the ass of ANYONE in american idol and them some!) will have to slog it out for ages before anything happens, but i plan to get there by being determined, writing killer music, and hard work. so he isnt the best shredder, he is okay - but he has got somewhere, which must be respected! ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Churchyard Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 That right there is what set me off. I wasn't trying to flame you (which I think I may have done ) and for that I apologize. My point remains the same, you're saying that the guitarist for one of the biggest bands is 'an overrated dumb guy'. Now does that make any sense to anyone? If you would've said, "He's not very fast, and he doesn't know alot of theory," that would have been fine by me. When you come in completely antagonizing someone, even Britney (she must be doing something right!) that's a different story. When you get to his level, you can say he sucks, deal? I work darn hard on my playing skills a lot of the time, and I can't dream about sweeping like he was. He's easily top 5% of the player population from what I've seen around here. Sure, there are better guys, but that doesn't make him bad. ← Britney looks sexy! Perhaps I was overdoing it, but I had read just before some things on other forums and stuff saying how great Tremonti is and was a bit pissed off. In fact, I believe I posted in the wrong topic, there you see how smart I am My thought is: a) you can shred? great! but: are you a skilled musician with sense of beauty that is able to insert this shred technique in your music without degrading it to pure show-off? And for my case: Tremonti is no way a great shredder, and when he shreds in a song I could just run away and scream... You know Michael Angelo? He is showing off, but at least it is really great shred technique I myself am one of the strange people who wishes (and practices in order to pull it off) he could shred like Michael Angelo (No Boundaries, anyone?) but dislikes it! What I believe is that anyone can shred - if you sit down hours a day and practice the right way - but almost no one can use this and make those lines speak... That's why I admire Vai so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 (edited) not to bash, but thats your take on music - showing off not as important as melody or whatever, but i believe everyone experiences melody differently, i would much prefer to listen to a rusty cooley song than say... gary moore - okay, different styles, but the speed comparison is valid i think! i think people must hear the melodies and speeds differently, i for one think cooley is incredible, some killer melodic ideas, but im well into shred! i agree vai can make things speak, but he is too weird at times - i find the whole whammy bar think is great for a song or 2, but he really uses it to death! you could argue that cooley overuses the sweeping, but you are allowed to, its your opinion, there is no point trying to persuade someone how good or how someone sucks, if they believe he is good, let them think so - no point trying to make them think like you, imigine how <edited>unpleasant the world would be if everyone thought like you! any feeble attempts at non-conforming would be being done! so different opinions are welcome! remember - "opinions are like an <edited>rude orifice on an elbow" no boundaries is a fav of mine - i REALLY wanna get a nitro CD!! Mike Edited May 10, 2005 by lovekraft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 as much as that sucked (i didn't like the black album) i think that's why they survived.. no...it's really not. i remember the time between justice and the black album vividly.metallica were becoming the kings of their genre."justice" was perfect.enough musicality to drag in borderline rockers,but still agressive enough to satisfy the mainstays....and at the same time reaching into new territory musically.the black album sold multitudes of copies on it's very first day...on the back of "justice" i was one of those suckers.i tried to like it...but i ended up using it to tune my guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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