Saga Kit

[Antihero]

So i buy a Saga LC_10 kit hoping to have some fun and hopefully get a usuable guitar out of it. I had put together one of their strats awhile back and was looking forward to it.

Well was i EVER wrong. First thing is their wiring diagram blows the big one. None of the colors match what is actually happening in reality. I have red and black with one single white wire. The way they explain it is"Now connect red with red etc blah blah " Well since i have an odd number of reds this seems kinda impossible,so i used my limited knowledge of guitar electronics to get it to work with trial and error which took me about 2 hours since i kept looking at the diagram thinking"Wow they cant suck that bad,surely they have even the slightest idea what they are doing,so connect the grey wire from the vol pot to the black wire from the pick up..........wait a second i dont have a grey wire....hmmm no grey wire. Well ill just move on to something else and see what wire is left over. Ok so connect the purple wire to the red wire from the switch......I dont have a purple wire either.......why again do i have this diagram...............????" I also made this harder on myself since i didnt use the stock pickups but still how about a diagram that matches reality?

So after this freakin hassle i finish everything but the bridge and tailpiece and wouldnt you know it no,i have NO studs to connect said pieces.ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the rant but i thought that someone would like to know about the saga kits and how much trouble i am having.....plus it feels good to let it out sometimes.

[jer7440]

That really sucks man. One thing I learned about building things from kits, be it airplanes or cars or guitars, always take an inventory of the parts you recieved and check it against the parts you were supposed to recieve. This way you know immediately if the manufacturer owes you something, in this case bridge studs.

[marksound]

I think if I was going to do a Saga kit I'd have to get it from Brian.

"Unassembled Custom Guitar Kits* are inspected to begin with so you are not left with the hassles of trying to get a part swapped out. In some cases the cavities are properly re-routed and of course shielding paint is added to them to enhance your kit's capability's. I also precut all the head stock shapes (except HT-10 and LC-10 Style) so you don't have to go through the hassle yourself. I also include a second set of strings at no additional charge (not available for Bass kits). Use the Original Kit supplied strings to make your necessary adjustments and alignment, then throw them away and replace them with the fresh set supplied."

[Sethmetal]

I think if I was going to do a Saga kit I'd have to get it from Brian.

"Unassembled Custom Guitar Kits* are inspected to begin with so you are not left with the hassles of trying to get a part swapped out. In some cases the cavities are properly re-routed and of course shielding paint is added to them to enhance your kit's capability's. I also precut all the head stock shapes (except HT-10 and LC-10 Style) so you don't have to go through the hassle yourself. I also include a second set of strings at no additional charge (not available for Bass kits). Use the Original Kit supplied strings to make your necessary adjustments and alignment, then throw them away and replace them with the fresh set supplied."

←

my sags PRS kit is cool, except that it didn't have the truss rod cover...and the wood comes pre-sealed....bummer

[JoJo T. Magnifficent]

I also made this harder on myself since i didnt use the stock pickups but still how about a diagram that matches reality?

←

I think youll find that the pickups you used have a different colour code, there is no internaltional standard or anything for colour coding ( some peopl use black for cround, some use green for example). you should have used the wiring diagram that came with the pickups (if it had one) or got one from the manufacturers site.

Were did you get it from btw?

[Antihero]

I also made this harder on myself since i didnt use the stock pickups but still how about a diagram that matches reality?

←

I think youll find that the pickups you used have a different colour code, there is no internaltional standard or anything for colour coding ( some peopl use black for cround, some use green for example). you should have used the wiring diagram that came with the pickups (if it had one) or got one from the manufacturers site.

Were did you get it from btw?

←

I knew that there was no set wire color for pickups,but in the bridge i used a Duncan Designed Detonator,which had the diagram,and had no problems.In the neck i used a Diesel humbucker that i bought off of ebay,which had no diagram and no website that i could find,this took me the longest,but i had more problems with the rest of the wiring with the guitar. One example would be that i had 4 wires going from my switch,while the diagram had 3,none of which had the right colors. The volume pot had 2 blacks and 1 red,while the diagram said it had a red,white and blue.

I bought it from Torres engineering.

[Antihero]

I think if I was going to do a Saga kit I'd have to get it from Brian.

"Unassembled Custom Guitar Kits* are inspected to begin with so you are not left with the hassles of trying to get a part swapped out. In some cases the cavities are properly re-routed and of course shielding paint is added to them to enhance your kit's capability's. I also precut all the head stock shapes (except HT-10 and LC-10 Style) so you don't have to go through the hassle yourself. I also include a second set of strings at no additional charge (not available for Bass kits). Use the Original Kit supplied strings to make your necessary adjustments and alignment, then throw them away and replace them with the fresh set supplied."

←

Who is Brian? Where can i find him on the web or call him? i want to keep building kits,but this experience is a little disheartning.

[Devon Headen]

He's the guy that runs this site. Go to www.universaljems.com, that's his website. If you order from him you'll be supporting the site, too .

[westhemann]

I think if I was going to do a Saga kit I'd have to get it from Brian.

"Unassembled Custom Guitar Kits* are inspected to begin with so you are not left with the hassles of trying to get a part swapped out. In some cases the cavities are properly re-routed and of course shielding paint is added to them to enhance your kit's capability's. I also precut all the head stock shapes (except HT-10 and LC-10 Style) so you don't have to go through the hassle yourself. I also include a second set of strings at no additional charge (not available for Bass kits). Use the Original Kit supplied strings to make your necessary adjustments and alignment, then throw them away and replace them with the fresh set supplied."

←

Who is Brian? Where can i find him on the web or call him? i want to keep building kits,but this experience is a little disheartning.

←

it is still a wonder to me that someone could join this forum without even looking into who makes it possible.without brian,you would be at mimf.

Brian is like God.when the site was first created He was present everywhere,putting in a helping and guiding hand on a daily basis.

now you don't see him nearly as much,but you must take it on faith that he is still there,behind the scenes,guiding everything.

besides....who do you think opens the gotm thread and poll every month,closes it,and then adds the winner to the home page?

brian will probably fly down to texas and kick my ass for this post ..or throw a bolt of lightning my way?

[mledbetter]

Brian is like God.when the site was first created He was present everywhere,putting in a helping and guiding hand on a daily basis.

now you don't see him nearly as much,but you must take it on faith that he is still there,behind the scenes,guiding everything.

Scenes from "the life of brian" come rushing to my mind..

[LGM Guitars]

when you're buying a kit for under $200 I think you almost need to expect things won't be quite right or might have the odd small thing missing, to expect perfection is unreasonable IMO. Kinda like hoping a new KIA will perform like the Enzo Ferrari

[javacody]

Also, if you try to replace the pickups, don't expect the wiring diagram to work. You need to come to a general understanding on how guitar pickups are wired. You shouldn't have to have anything color coded, you should be able to wire it all up even if all the wires were the same color.

Have you been to guitarnuts?

[Antihero]

when you're buying a kit for under $200 I think you almost need to expect things won't be quite right or might have the odd small thing missing, to expect perfection is unreasonable IMO.  Kinda like hoping a new KIA will perform like the Enzo Ferrari

←

Um actually i was hoping that i would get the kit that i payed for that includes all the parts regardless of what said kit cost. Otherwise why would you buy it? It would be kinda like buying a Kia and not getting the engine or the seats,because it didnt cost much. I am not expecting this to be a Gibson Les Paul,i am expecting it to perform like a 180 dollar guitar,and even the cheapest strat clone has a bridge and i dont even have to put it together.

[Antihero]

Also, if you try to replace the pickups, don't expect the wiring diagram to work. You need to come to a general understanding on how guitar pickups are wired. You shouldn't have to have anything color coded, you should be able to wire it all up even if all the wires were the same color.

Have you been to guitarnuts?

←

I have replaced a couple of pickups before and i do have a general understanding. The Duncan pickup was great and the diagram worked fine,the other one didnt have a diagram and had 5 wires running from,which i have never run into before. Even then it was basically just hooking it up a couple of different ways until it worked. i had the most problem with the rest of the electronics because i was trying to follow the diagram and instructions that was given. I am by no means an expert in guitar wiring,but i have done a little. In this case it was kinda my fault for trying to follow the diagram provided by the company that actually built the kit. It seems kinda poor to provide a wiring diagram that is totally wrong.

No i havent visited guitarnuts,but thanks for the heads up.

[Brian]

I'm flying out of town till Tuesday but e-mail me your address Antihero, I'm pretty sure I have a set of studs for that kit I can get in the mail for you when I get back so you can complete it

I do make it in here to have a look around when work will let me

[Antihero]

I'm flying out of town till Tuesday but e-mail me your address Antihero, I'm pretty sure I have a set of studs for that kit I can get in the mail for you when I get back so you can complete it

I do make it in here to have a look around when work will let me 

←

First of all thank you very much for offering to send me the studs. I called Torres and they said they would mail me one out "Tomarrow"(funnily enough i called them the day before and they said they would mail it out to me "Today") but they are kinda giving me the run around,so if they dont get it in gear soon,i will definatly take you up on it.

And believe me the next kit i buy(and the next,and the next) will be from you.

Thank you

[LGM Guitars]

when you're buying a kit for under $200 I think you almost need to expect things won't be quite right or might have the odd small thing missing, to expect perfection is unreasonable IMO.  Kinda like hoping a new KIA will perform like the Enzo Ferrari

←

Um actually i was hoping that i would get the kit that i payed for that includes all the parts regardless of what said kit cost. Otherwise why would you buy it? It would be kinda like buying a Kia and not getting the engine or the seats,because it didnt cost much. I am not expecting this to be a Gibson Les Paul,i am expecting it to perform like a 180 dollar guitar,and even the cheapest strat clone has a bridge and i dont even have to put it together.

←

Understood, but keep in mind, if you could buy a Kia "kit", pieces would probably be missing. The reason these kits are so cheap is they are built, packed, and shipped typically by unskilled workers doing the jobs for next to nothing pay. This being the case things get forgotten, overlooked, call it what you will.

I've seen many "kits" where pieces are missing, even in expensive ones. The difference in a $200 kit, and a $200 guitar (completed) is the guitar has to play before it leaves the factory (maybe not well, but everything is supposed to function). If a part is missing, chances are good it will not function properly. When the kits are being packed, it's likely that the small bagged parts get tossed around and some probably end up on the floor of the factory only to be kicked under a bench somewhere for the rats to use

[crafty]

Wow, you bought a kit from Torres Engineering? No wonder you're having so many problems. Those guys are shady. They're part of the group that's trying to put Bill Lawrence out of business, too. I wouldn't buy a cup of dirt from them.

[mledbetter]

Wow, you bought a kit from Torres Engineering? No wonder you're having so many problems. Those guys are shady. They're part of the group that's trying to put Bill Lawrence out of business, too. I wouldn't buy a cup of dirt from them.

←

I've always gotten a weird vibe off their web site. Didn't really know anything about them though. You can get a better deal on the kits from ebay.. however, given they are prone to missing items, getting them from brian is your best bet.

[82DeanZ]

Wow, you bought a kit from Torres Engineering? No wonder you're having so many problems. Those guys are shady. They're part of the group that's trying to put Bill Lawrence out of business, too. I wouldn't buy a cup of dirt from them.

I work about a mile from the Torres shop and have done a fair amount of business with him. Believe me, there's nothing shady about those guys. They are very friendly and helpful. I even bought a Saga kit from him and everything was fine. He sells them so fast that he just stacks them up as them come in and they are still bound and unopened. He even let me open a few so that I could get exactly the body I wanted. If you want someone to inspect the kit before you buy you'll have to go to Brian.

As far as putting Bill Lawrence out of business, I'm not sure what you mean especially considering that Torres is promoting Bill Lawrence pickups on his site:

http://www.torresengineering.com/picbillaw.html

Personally, I will continue to do business with Mr. Torres. He has always done right by me and gone the extra mile.

Best Regards,

Mike.

[GregP]

Thanks for the contrasting opinion, Mike. It's always good to hear both sides of the story so that people can make informed choices.

Greg

[crafty]

Yeah, he sells and supports the "Bill Lawrence USA" pickups made by Wajcman, not Bill and Becky. They're not the real deal and he has played an active role in trying to get the Lawrence's service mark for pickup design services revoked.

Being helpful in person with a customer in the store is one thing, but treating your mail/internet order customers like crap is quite another. Not even inspecting merchandise before you send it out to your customer is just bad business, too.

[82DeanZ]

Yeah, he sells and supports the "Bill Lawrence USA" pickups made by Wajcman, not Bill and Becky. They're not the real deal and he has played an active role in trying to get the Lawrence's service mark for pickup design services revoked

I admit to not knowing a a whole lot about what is going on with the Bill Lawrence trademark (and probably for good reason - wink, wink). I feel bad for anyone who has a trademark infringed, but it's not clear to me how Mr. Torres decision to back and sell the L500 and L250 pickups sold by the current legal owner of the trademark is a reflection on his business. Using that logic, I suppose you would have to also boycott Washburn since the put the L500 in the Nuno Bettencourt guitar (both versions from what I gather on the net). And don't get me wrong, you have every right to boycott anything you want! Now, if he was selling a pickup that made illegal use of a trademark, then I could understand someone having a negative reaction. Again, I just don't see how any of this reflects on the business of Torres Engineering. The fact that he doesn't open every box seems to have more bearing on the matter and even that could be arguable from a practical standpoint (it would be a lot of work to open every box and check that every screw and bolt is present - not impossible, but understandable if he decides not to. I'm sure Mr. Torres isn't the only retailer who doesn't inspect part lists for every item he/she sells retail). Again, if you want that kind of attention to detail, give Brian a call, by all means.

I'm just giving you my experience as a regular customer of Torres. In my personal experience, there has been nothing shady about the shop or people working there. Your milage may vary, of course, and it would be interesting to hear from someone who has done business with Torres Engineering and had a truly bad experience.

Edited May 6, 2005 by 82DeanZ

[JoJo T. Magnifficent]

Im pretty sure that Fender would have given a thurough background check before they decided to officially endorse Bills pickups. personally i dont get a good impression form that wajcman guy. Bill n Becky seem much more reputable to me, though i would be disapointed if they were operating under false pretenses.

[Antihero]

when you're buying a kit for under $200 I think you almost need to expect things won't be quite right or might have the odd small thing missing, to expect perfection is unreasonable IMO.  Kinda like hoping a new KIA will perform like the Enzo Ferrari

←

Um actually i was hoping that i would get the kit that i payed for that includes all the parts regardless of what said kit cost. Otherwise why would you buy it? It would be kinda like buying a Kia and not getting the engine or the seats,because it didnt cost much. I am not expecting this to be a Gibson Les Paul,i am expecting it to perform like a 180 dollar guitar,and even the cheapest strat clone has a bridge and i dont even have to put it together.

←

Understood, but keep in mind, if you could buy a Kia "kit", pieces would probably be missing. The reason these kits are so cheap is they are built, packed, and shipped typically by unskilled workers doing the jobs for next to nothing pay. This being the case things get forgotten, overlooked, call it what you will.

I've seen many "kits" where pieces are missing, even in expensive ones. The difference in a $200 kit, and a $200 guitar (completed) is the guitar has to play before it leaves the factory (maybe not well, but everything is supposed to function). If a part is missing, chances are good it will not function properly. When the kits are being packed, it's likely that the small bagged parts get tossed around and some probably end up on the floor of the factory only to be kicked under a bench somewhere for the rats to use

←

All this is valid,but i am still not happy with not having the parts to complete a kit that i already payed for,and getting the runaround about getting these parts. I finnaly just got fed up and bought the parts. Brian was very very nice in offering but looking at my guitar and not being able to play it was driving me nuts. I will instead buy every other kit guitar and accessories from him from now on.

Wow, you bought a kit from Torres Engineering? No wonder you're having so many problems. Those guys are shady. They're part of the group that's trying to put Bill Lawrence out of business, too. I wouldn't buy a cup of dirt from them.

Yes i do believe they are shady and i really wish i had read something like this before i bought from then. Telling someone that you will send the parts for a kit thta you already bought then not mailing them sucks. Then when calling them the next day to confirm that they are sending it out and being told that they didnt send it out and that they will maybe send it out "tomarrow or the next day or maybe the next because its out of my way" is much much worse.

I will never buy from Torres ever again and will tell everyone i meet that they suck. Losing busines and reputation over 10 bucks worth of parts and 15 minutes of time is really bad business.

I work about a mile from the Torres shop and have done a fair amount of business with him. Believe me, there's nothing shady about those guys. They are very friendly and helpful. I even bought a Saga kit from him and everything was fine. He sells them so fast that he just stacks them up as them come in and they are still bound and unopened. He even let me open a few so that I could get exactly the body I wanted. If you want someone to inspect the kit before you buy you'll have to go to Brian.

As far as putting Bill Lawrence out of business, I'm not sure what you mean especially considering that Torres is promoting Bill Lawrence pickups on his site:

http://www.torresengineering.com/picbillaw.html

Personally, I will continue to do business with Mr. Torres. He has always done right by me and gone the extra mile.

Best Regards,

Mike.

I am glad that you didnt have any problems and i can see that you will continue to buy from them. We can only make informed decisions off of personal experience,and yours was good. I on the other hand have had nothing but problems and will run screaming from their business.

Also the difference may be that you where physically in the store when you made your purchase. Sometimes when people are not face to face they act much worse. Also maybe they thought of you as "Person who lives/works close to us and would give us a bad reputation right here" as opposed to " Hick that lives in Idaho"

Thanks for the contrasting opinion, Mike.  It's always good to hear both sides of the story so that people can make informed choices.

Greg

I agree.