Body Design : Reverse Strat

[psw]

OK...here's a mock up of the guitar design I'm thinking of for my sustainer / pickup device.

Basically it's a left handed strat neck (21 fret copy). The body design is an upside down strat but I've extended the cutaway of what would be the upper horn for fret access and angled the back of the guitar to offset this now extended looking horn slightly (echoes of the firebird and explorer designs)

I'm going for a little jimi and a little mosrite, or a fender-like version of the above mentioned "reverse" guitars.

Standard tremolo, bridge humbucker and single coil neck pickup / driver. 3 maybe 4 knobs and a few mini switches will be required (may have a piezo system fitted)

Anyway...tell me what you think of the shape for now. I'll get back on the materials

pete

P.S.perhaps ignore all those lines drawn on it, just trying out ideas.

[Mickguard]

Sorry, I don't like it...it's just reinventing the wheel. That lower horn just looks dorky.

I'd say, either go for a true reversed strat design, or go for a Mosrite (which is pretty much the same thing...)

[TenderSurrender]

Sorry, I don't like it...it's just reinventing the wheel. That lower horn just looks dorky.

I'd say, either go for a true reversed strat design, or go for a Mosrite (which is pretty much the same thing...)

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Ive got to agree with idch on this one, Im not prefectly sure what puts me off the design of that guitar it just dont seem right (which probably doesnt help you at all)

Go for a true reversed strat... they look cool anyway

~~ Slain Angel ~~

[GregP]

Horrible lower horn.

Greg

[psw]

I know what you mean...

Ive got to agree with idch on this one, Im not prefectly sure what puts me off the design of that guitar it just dont seem right (which probably doesnt help you at all)

Go for a true reversed strat... they look cool anyway

You get really bad upper fret access on a true reverse strat and you turn the controls with your playing arm.

This is exactly traced from a lefty strat but with the lower horn cut in up to the 20th fret and the back twisted about.

But that lower horn does look a lot longer and...well, dorkier...so how to fix it.

Bear in mind however...Mosrites look pretty dorky too, till you strap it to a Ramone!

Reverse strats do look cool, but if you've ever played one, you'd be aware that the body contours are all in the wrong places, the controls, everything is...well...wrong!

So...is there no way to make it right but still have the "coolness" of the reverse strat. If you were to invent a "reversed" fender (like other "reversed" guitars such as the firebird, explorer, iceman or mosrite...even the mockingbird) what would it look like?

There must be a way to capture the cool of reversed style body in a classic fender style...

some suggestions for improvement if you please!

psw

[Mickguard]

[bear in mind however...Mosrites look pretty dorky too, till you strap it to a Ramone!

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Or maybe it's the Mosrite that made the Ramone?

That's a good point about the contours...but why not use the reverse strat shape, and the mosrite's contours (and horns)?

[RGGR]

Horrible lower horn. wink.gif

Greg

[Daniel Sorbera]

I like it I think it would look cool if you carved the top and finished it in metalic silver.

[GregP]

If you like the look of a reverse strat, there are going to have to be sacrifices made, I'm afraid. Hendrix managed to reach those upper frets, after all!

You could make a reverse strat, but put the body contours in the correct spot. That's the most 'authentic and yet workable' compromise I can imagine. Beyond that, you'll be into new design territory, which you've already demonstrated you're willing to do. I agree with the Mosrite/Ramones comment, though! Why not pay more tribute to the Mosrite idea than the strat idea, then?

RGGR-- I resemble that comment!

[spheroid]

[psw]

Hmmmm....

If you like the look of a reverse strat, there are going to have to be sacrifices made, I'm afraid. Hendrix managed to reach those upper frets, after all!

Well Hendrix did have monster hands...and talent!!!

Well I think, I'd get flamed on both sides if I built an actual left hand strat...besides I've got one, which I just ripped the neck off!

Besides, I'm sure it's not just the outline of the shape. Even I if I made a left hand strat, you couldn't really relocate the controls without seriously reworking the scratch plate...this would radically change the look too!

That's what a lot of those lines drawn on it are about...contours and 'plate ideas.

Actually...I was thinking of keeping the curvey strat contours and rounded edges...or maybe that sort of Brian Moore style of arched top making the outer edges and horns thinner (in thickness, not in outline).

I like it  I think it would look cool if you carved the top and finished it in metalic silver.

I've been contemplating two scratchplates (either side of the strings) of polished aluminium sheet. The centre being a laminated GT stripe of different hardwoods...like a faux neckthrough. The silver 'plates would cover the entire body top except for the outer, rounded over rim and this centre section...we'll it's one idea. A Suitable scratchplate may take the edge off the dorkiness or play it up for some kitsch Kool!

That's a good point about the contours...but why not use the reverse strat shape, and the mosrite's contours (and horns)?

So, what?...make it a bit more kidney shaped and take an odgee bit to the outer edges...I think I'm down with that...not!!!!

I think you're inviting "hampster with a hard-on" type comments there Have another look at a trad mosrite (minus Ramone).

Alright, consider some of those other classic "reverse" designs I mentioned. Tell me if the reversed firebird outline doesn't look like some dali-esque dinner plate...but it seems to work.

Maybe it needs to be morphed some more to find it's coolness...it's in there somewhere...I just ain't found it...

Im not prefectly sure what puts me off the design of that guitar it just dont seem right (which probably doesnt help you at all)

So, all in all I'm agreeing with you guys but what would make it seem right?

P

Oh...reversed strat pic posted while I was posting...Thanks spheroid. Couldn't I just cut a little more into the lower horn. It's Ok, but the righty scratchplate disguises the reverseness of it a little. It's not as cool as I think it coold be...

[psw]

GregP (from another thread)

'Sides, upper fret access is very highly overrated.

Do you reckon?

If you like the look of a reverse strat, there are going to have to be sacrifices made, I'm afraid. Hendrix managed to reach those upper frets, after all!

Guess you do!

I know where you're coming from, but I still think the simple reverse strat...unless the whole thing's upside down is a little weird for a new design. I basically want to capture the cool essence of the reverse shape (we do agree it's cool don't we?) but in a practical righthanded way.

In short...I don't want it to look like I routed around the body template with the thing flipped over backwards, then tried to make everything else kind of fit around it.

You guy's get where I'm coming from?

peteP

[GregP]

I getcha. How about at least making the lower horn a BIT shorter, and have the actual cutaway part (ie not the wood, the empty space between the neck and horn!) a little bit wider. It seems too narrow on both the top AND bottom of the neck, no? Or maybe not much 'wider', but just make the curved area less pointy. Have it a full circular curve instead of the pointy side of an egg.

I am sh** at explaining myself today. <laff>

Not to hijack the thread, but yes I really do think that upper fret access is highly overrated. Let's say you were fool enough to bring your cutaway a full five frets up the neck. That would make it more difficult for you to access a mere 2.5 tones. Whoopdee doo! I can BEND a string 2.5 tones if I really need it. Then there's also pinch harmonics if you really want to squeak.

Ultimately, I think too many people spend too much time way up there anyhow. It's like "OK, I gotta express an emotion of excitement or screaming anguish... yup, let's go nice and high!" instead of using the melodic content of a solo to accomplish the same thing. Take the same widdly-widdly little high-pitched lick and transpose it down 2 or 3 octaves... NOW you have something tasty.

Now, that doesn't mean you never need to go up there. In a recent thread, I was quite thrilled by the AANJ, and I can see myself using it in the future. So I'm not "dead set" against upper fret histrionics, I just think it's rated too highly. People make it seem like a guitar's design is sh** if you can reach every upper fret with ease. I got a non-cutaway acoustic (though of course, I had options) but I don't feel that the body joining the neck at fret 14 is killing my ability to play the guitar, or has made the guitar a piece of crap. I don't see why people get so anxious about it on an electric.

Sorry for the thread hijack!

Greg

[psw]

No, I'm with you...but I don't think I'd want to design upper fret access out though. I still miss that 22nd fret at times, too. There is a little too much accent on upper fret access from the shredding school and a little two little on melodic invention and such.

This thing will have a traditional fender square-ish neck join so the "neck" (joins) going to be substantial. The horn does feel a little close to the neck on the mock up and it does look a little long (though it's exactly traced from a backwards strat)

Here's a pic that's filled in a bit...see if that changes anything for you:

Scratch plates and stuff can really change the look of an outline. I'm open to ideas. This has aluminium side 'plates and a laminated centre section. Pickups are mounted directly or from the back.

I found some 100 year old California Redwood. Hoping for a really resonant sound. The centre would be some kind of hardwood and the aluminium would provide protection to the fairly soft wood. The sustainer driver provides for infinite sustain so I wouldn't mind a characterful, percussive sound to it.

But it's just one option. Another would be to cover the whole face and back in this sheet, arched over.

P

[marksound]

[sashimimi]

I have two quick quesitons, When you put the aluminum sheet metal over the top of the guitar, wont it be hard to bend it to the contours on your mock up drawing. In particular, the upper arm contour seems oddly shaped, not like a normal strats contour that would only require a straigt bend.

Also if you moved the cutaway in question up like 3 or four frets, then made a sort of carve in the wood that replaced the cutaway, would that satisfy both the design and practical problems. I don't really know if it will help out, but i think a thinner bit of wood between your fingers and their destination might make reaching the frets easier.

[Jehle]

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Ah, the double cutaway tele. You don't see many of those around. I've always thought that was a cool look. I wonder why that never caught on.

As for the upside down guitar question, if you are going for something cool to play in front of people, I'd say go for a more obvious upside-down look. The lower horn looks way too long for the rest of the body from your cutting into it. It's a bit too late to say that I suppose since it looks like you've already cut that body out (or is that just cardboard?).

If you think it's cool though, do it. You've gotta do what you think is the best thing to do. I've also seen ideas on here that I didn't care for in the design phase, but the finished product looks really good. You could prove us wrong and show that it is a cool idea after all.

For the moment, it looks too much like a spam on a guitar. (can I say spam here?)

[jnewman]

I basically want to capture the cool essence of the reverse shape (we do agree it's cool don't we?) but in a practical righthanded way.

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So basically, you want to take a lefty (reverse) guitar... and make it right handed... If you actually try to make it really comfortable for a righty, you're going to be back to a normal strat shape . You need the top horn long for strap balance and a really long lower horn looks bad, but it has to be really long if you want "reverse" shape but still have upper fret access.

It just seems like sort of an impossible situation.

[marksound]

I think that double cut Tele gives the impression of a long lower horn. You could do the Strat contours and pickguard and it would look kinda leftyish.

[psw]

Scratch plates and stuff can really change the look of an outline. I'm open to ideas. This has aluminium side 'plates and a laminated centre section. Pickups are mounted directly or from the back.

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Just brought my pic forward here...great responses here...thanks. I'll go through some of the questions and suggestions....backwards :

marksound

I think that double cut Tele gives the impression of a long lower horn. You could do the Strat contours and pickguard and it would look kinda leftyish.

Well, I think that making a left hand strat (right as in the red guitar on the previous page) doesn't really work. The outline shape is reversed but the rest isn't...it looks a little wrong somehow. I really like the double cut tele too...I just want a bit on that "moderne" forward push to it!

QUOTE(psw @ May 15 2005, 05:55 PM)

I basically want to capture the cool essence of the reverse shape (we do agree it's cool don't we?) but in a practical righthanded way.

jnewman

So basically, you want to take a lefty (reverse) guitar... and make it right handed... If you actually try to make it really comfortable for a righty, you're going to be back to a normal strat shape

a-ha...catch-22!?...

Actually, I'm trying to think more a long the lines of the classic reversed guitars. OK, Imagine for a moment that, when the explorer or firebird came out in the late fifties and sixties and showed that the old establishment at Gibson were in touch with the times (big finned cars, twangy surf rock garage bands, space rockets....etc) and that these designs had captured the imagination at that time (which they didn't...they were a commercial flop...only later becoming such icons), you can bet that fender would have developed their own reverse model. Instead, they were trying to compete with Gibson by producing the Jazzmaster.

So...if fender were to make a true reverse guitar (not a left hand upside down) what would they have produced to compete with the other such designs...that's what I'm trying to get at. Try not think upsidedown, or left, think reversed!

Jehle

As for the upside down guitar question, if you are going for something cool to play in front of people, I'd say go for a more obvious upside-down look. The lower horn looks way too long for the rest of the body from your cutting into it. It's a bit too late to say that I suppose since it looks like you've already cut that body out (or is that just cardboard?).

No that's just scrap MDF to get a better idea of the shape. I agree the problem is that the lower horn does look too long and well, a little too...spam like! Now that you mention it! (truely, I hadn't noticed) Actually the balance doesn't seem too bad...the upper bout is pushed back to compensate, my original left hand strat seemed to go alright and I'll try to compensate a little in the weight distribution in the body if necessary...I'm going for a pretty light guitar anyway.

Sahimimi

I have two quick quesitons, When you put the aluminum sheet metal over the top of the guitar, wont it be hard to bend it to the contours on your mock up drawing. In particular, the upper arm contour seems oddly shaped, not like a normal strats contour that would only require a straigt bend.

The aluminium sheet is pretty thin...it will easily bend to the upper arm contout on the front. This carve really is only 2 dimensional. 3-d contours (like an arched top) would have to be hammered out. An arch like Brian Moore uses is 2-d so that would also be a possibility. The roundover on the edges...to retain the strat's curvy feel...would be near impossible. That's why I've left a rim of wood to roundover in this drawing/idea.

Also if you moved the cutaway in question up like 3 or four frets, then made a sort of carve in the wood that replaced the cutaway, would that satisfy both the design and practical problems. I don't really know if it will help out, but i think a thinner bit of wood between your fingers and their destination might make reaching the frets easier.

Yeah, you may be right...kind of like PRS's lower cut contour that goes right through the maple top. It would work well if I ditched scratchplates altogether, but it would still seem like compensation for the guitar being wrong (as opposed to reversed) in conception IMO.

There is no practical reason for any reversed guitar by the way...like fins on a car...it's a look that expresses something. I'm just trying to get that look without it seeming wrong.

Perhaps part of the problem is that the cutaway's are to the same depth while the horns are of different lengths so that the only solution would be to make the lower cutaway...less deep. I'll play about with it now that I have a traced drawing on the computer to work with.

thanks guys

psw

[onelastgoodbye]

I actually quite like it. You might waanna try thinning those horns a little, and make 'em a bit pointier. Right now they're more like 'blobs' , which makes the design loose it's edge. You need a bit more tension in there. Maybe more along the lines of a reversed Ibanez js?

[psw]

Thanks Tim/onelastgoodbye.

Ok, so here are a bunch of fendery variations I've come up with:

Seems to be turning into a reverse tele never mind...perhaps this thread should have been called reverse fender!...that was more my intention with the design idea I guess.

I quite like the yellow one. I pulled the back out and round a little more and made the fin kind of wider/straighter too (rather than thinner like a JS). Gives it more of a curvy explorer (or perhaps Iceman) like feel to it. Looks a bit familiar actually...has this already been done?

The green ones a bit wierd but was trying to get a bit of the Jaguar shape to the upper horn. One benifit of the 'single cut' like designs (orange, yellow and blue) is that they support the neck a bit more...could be important for stability with a bolt on design...and look a little less like I've just hacked away at a lefthanded design.

Anyway...not necessarily committed to the strat shape...per se....I am open to ideas on this one (though the headstock stays, ok!)

psw

[All the way to peoria]

This may sound dumb but why not trace a Strat body onto peice of 1/4" thick wood, and make your template from that, then once you cut the body out contour and set it up from there?

[psw]

Well that's effectively what I did with the original photo (post 1) but something about the outline just doesn't seem right. Although...I still kinda like it

p

[GregP]

The spam horn is still bothering me.

The yellow one looks an awful lot like the Fernandes Dave Kershner uses. Is that his name? Velvet Revolver dude?

Greg