Setch Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Just an observation, but in the orientation you used, a dovetail has very little 'inhate strength'. Traditionally the 'dove tails' of a dovetail joint are oriented parallel to the grain direction, so the wood would have to break across the grain for the joint to fail. In your example, the 'tail' could be parted off quite easily along the grain. So, if anything, your dovetail may be weaker than a simple butt joint. However, both are plenty strong enough for this application. As for side dot material, you could always drill a small hole in the marker position, and use black CA or epoxy to fill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted June 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 the epoxy is a valid idea. i'll probably wait until i'm further down the road to decide because i could very well have to order a few more things from stewmac. i think i have all of what i need...but you know how these things work. As for the dovetail, regardless of the orientation of the dovetail in relation to the grain, the dovetail has more gluing surface than the wood. that combined with the fact that the glue is stronger than the wood gives me great confidence. you also have to remember that there will be a maple top and back. realistically, the only reason i was entirely sold on the dovetail was because i wanted to put the poplar and ebony in the joint for asthetics. Anyhow, no offense taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted June 29, 2005 Report Share Posted June 29, 2005 Oh, OK, so there's some at the neck end and some at the bridge end but routed away in the middle. I think I understand now. I don't remember there being a minimum order at stewmac but then again, I usually have them back the truck up to my garage with each order anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 I'm gonna need a case for this, i know i could build a good one, but i don't know if i want to dedicate the time to it. does anyone know if ibeam cases does carved top/back cases? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted July 5, 2005 Report Share Posted July 5, 2005 Absolutely nice guitar. But as many pointed out, the control area detracts from the beauty of the guitar carved top. And the rings are a bit wobbly looking. I'm lookin foward to seing this one finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2005 so here's a progress report: -the top has had the back carved and has now been glued to the body -the inside has received its shielding and has been sealed with vinyl sealer, black laquer will follow shortly -the truss rod and CF rod(s) pockets have been routed and the CF has been glued in place and trimmed to length. -the peghead has received its ebony overlay and all neccesary drilling(on the peghead) has been completed -the control area has had the holes drilled to accept all electronics and a hole has beenmade in the side to accept the stereo jackplate -the back of the guitar has been cut out and is about 1/2 way done with carving -and i now have amazingly high quality maple humbucker rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 bump... and new pictures!(that's when you say "yay") Here are thumbnails linking to fullsized images: The top getting glued to the neck and sides with my home made version of stewmac's clamps. Can you believe stewmac charges $15 for a set of 6 of those? I made 16 for less than $10. They ended up being a bit too big for gluing the top to the body(they'll be the perfect size when the back goes on). I just cut 1" pieces of pipe to use as spacers. Oh, and a little hint for clamping the top of the horns: the clamps slip off if you try to tighten them on the horns. Cut a block of wood about 3" long and cut a curve on each end that matches the radius of your clamps, then zip-tie them together. Now they are tugging on eachother and can't slip off the guitar(presto!). The top being clamped on from another vantage. The back of the guitar. Nearly done w/ roughing out the shape. wooden binding being glued on. The inside w/o the back. As you can see, I've shielded the control area. The reason for the darkness of the wood is a tinted vinyl sealer. I thought that would provide enough darkness for the inside, but I've decided to paint all of the inside flat black. These are all of the inlays for the headstock and neck. There will be a tree on the headstock w/ my signature over it. The leaves will be fret markers and the pile of leaves will be at the bottom of the fretboard. I have not done all of the engraving yet though, so there are no veins in the leaves as of now. Oh, and the inlay materials are abalone, gold MOP, and flamed maple. I hope it's ok that I used the thumbnails. I know you're not supposed to use more that one pick, but I figured the thumbnails would be acceptable. If it's not ok, then just say so and I'll change them all to links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyldbil Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Frightfully nice. Seems you have some innovative ideas. Can't wait to see further progress reports and the finished beast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Yeah, really nice work....still wish you'd reconsider the edges of that launch pad though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 (edited) just wait...patience idch. i have test fitted the hardware on it and it just makes the "launch pad"(i'm cringing...did I even spell that right?!) look amazing. oh, and by hardware i meant the 4 knobs and 2 switches Edited July 9, 2005 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 Man I really like how it's turning out, and all the pics you've been taking are great. One question I have is how is the f hole doing, in the last few pics I couldn't get a good look at it and I wasn't sure if the carving had any negative effects on it. Was it cut when your top was flat or after when it was carved? I don't know if I could trust myself to carve the top with the f hole already there, is it possible to do it after? Great work though. I can't wait to see the final product, it going to be super nice I'm sure, good luck with the rest of it and keep us updated with pics when you can! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 just wait...patience idch. ← Okay, okay....I suppose the rest of the guitar looks pretty great, I should just trust you on this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirapop Posted July 9, 2005 Report Share Posted July 9, 2005 For the most part, it looks great. The launch pad does kind of stick out... visually. Maybe consider putting some purfling insider the perimeter of the pad or maybe do a shell inlay over the whole pad surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 (edited) The f-hole was routed with a 1/16" router bit before the top was carved. If there is anything I can do well, it's carving a top. Granted I killed a dremel(lit it on fire actually) while carving it, but it was from the 70's anyhow. I won't be putting purfing on the "launch pad"(cringe again) and there will be no inlays on the body...asside from a leaf on the back of the headstock. There will be the inlays on the neck and headstock, but none on the body itself. Right now I'm finshing up with the binding on the front...then I'll do just a tad bit your hand sanding and then the fretboard goes on. From there I'll do all of my inlays and fretting.Once I have all of my bridge and tailpiece holes drilled on the front, I will finish up the back and glue it on. Sadly, it takes the nitro about a month to dry so it won't be done by the time I go up to LSU for fall semester. Fortunately I only live an hour and a half away. Thanks for all of you comments guys...I feel special. I meant to say...you could cut the f-hole after you carve the top. I really don't know how say benedetto does it, but I would think it would be very difficult to get the f-hole clean if you cut it after you carved it. At least it would be hard to get it clean with a power tool. regardless, my method worked like a charm. Edited July 10, 2005 by thegarehanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Cool thanks for letting me know. I thought it might be hard to do an f hole on a carved top as you would have no flat surface to use, but I wasn't sure if the hole would stay clean and straight while carving the top. I'm glad I'm a long way off of being good enough to do carved topped semi hollows as I would get many headaches trying to figure it all out, it seems the planning that went into your guitar was immense. Great planning though as it seems that everything is working out according to plan for you. Keep us updated with pics when you get a chance! Oh yeah that red abalone idea is great. I only have very minimal experience with inlays, and I was unaware with this option. I see colors, but I never knew what they were made of. If it's possible to use strictly shell and mop that would be the best for me at least. I am curious to see your inlay and Wes'. I think both will be great and both will be something I can use as information and technique for my current project, though since it's my first experience I might just do block inlays, even though I have a great idea of what I want all mapped out. Thanks again for the info and keep up the killer work! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 I'll be quite honest with you here, if you're planning on cutting the blocks yourself, you might have a harder time doing that than with a pattern. straight lines can be tough at first. cuves are much easier to get clean. for you first inly i would go w/ a pattern that does not require engraving, then move onto engraving for the second one. I'll be doing quite a bit of engraving work on those leaves. I did put quite a bit of thought into this project before even laying foot in the shop, buuuuut...there have also been a lot of decisions I've made on the fly. Most of those decisions were about how I was going to execute certain tasks though. I figured out how to taper each neck laminate individually just hours before i did it(for instance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Yeah I'm still unsure as far as inlays, I've seen a few places where I can buy as blocks already then I could trace them right onto the fretboard with an exacto, then bust out the dremel and knock it out. I probably will save the engraving for my next attempt, one reason is the fretboard I have picked out from Rich(fryovanni) is sweet. I would really hate to ruin it. It's a great piece of cocobolo. I can imagine how difficult tapering neck laminates would be. I spent plenty of time just deciding how thick I need each laminate to have it wide enough to not have to add pieces to the headstock, and without having an oversized middle laminate. Easy stuff but since this is my first project and I spent a lot of time just researching if I should do a laminate then deciding on woods and sizes. I think most people just starting don't have a clue as to how much time goes into planning a build. I've been planning and doing homework for almost 3 months now and have had most of my wood for about 1 1/2-2 months. I still have quite a bit I need to know but for the majority I have a good idea as to how I am going about this. I have a post in this thread somewhere called solid body progress pics I think and it has my basic idea and some pics of my wood and first try templates that I'm redoing. Anyways I look to people such as yourself to learn how to do certain tasks. Inlays are one area I haven't fully become schooled in, but I'm starting to do this now as I am getting my fretboard within 2 weeks. It won't be glued up for a little while, til I get the truss rod ready and installed. But thank you for all your info and progress pics as they have helped me out a lot and it's just so cool to watch someone go through the whole process of building a guitar. Good luck with yours and take a bunch of pics when you do the inlays, I would really like to see how you are doing it. It's a pretty complex layout. Nice stuff though and thanks again! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Ok, I've got a few more picks. I've done more work since these were taken, but for now, you'll have to live with these. Take a gander in the polls section. I've been experimenting with a few finishes and I'm having a poll to see what you guys like the best. I'm having trouble deciding on which one I like the best. Without further adeu(more thumbnails): The inside of the guitar w/o the back on. I decided to paint it all black, flat black that is. You'll notice the area near the controls is a different shade of black; that's shielding paint. This is a picture of the two channels that I routed to accomodate the 2 ply wooden purfing and the maple binding with 3 layers of purfing on the bottom. You can see the binding and purfing on stewmac's site. Notice how the binding channel is sloped up as it goes towards the neck. This will allow the purfing on the underside of the binding to line up with the purfing under the binding on the neck. This is some stewmac's maple/b/w/b/w binding that I bent before gluing to the guitar. No bending Iron was needed. Just water, tape, and time. Ok, so I will be doing some inlays on the body, but only on the back. I made the last minute decision to add these leaves to the back. I was just looking at it, and it seemed like a blank canvas. So I grabbed a pencil and went to town. Then came the problem of transfering it to paper. I had no tracing paper so I just wiped down some computer paper with paint thinner to temporarily make it transparent and presto! I had the design transferred. I actually have those inlays cut out already. No pics though Ok, so now go vote on which finish you like best. GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 stain it black, sand back, then to like an amber or something along those lines, it will really make the grain pop nice work so far, I love it Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 You didn't even look at the poll did you?! I actually did that as one of my tests, take a gander. Actually, I was thinking the same thing in the begining. However...now I'm thinking natural in the middle with a cherry burst, or a redish brown sand back type finish. They're both in the poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 yea, i just seen the poll now *doh* our opinions on this forum can really only give you our thoughts and new ideas, in the end, your the one that makes the final descion, not us (unless, you want to send it to me once you are done building it, in that case i will tell you every step of the way!!) Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I just want to see what everyone's take on it is. I probably won't even listen. Right now I'm thinking natural w/ a cherry burst or that chocolate brown color. I know how much everyone likes the "popping flamed finish," but I think the brown is as far as I'd want to go with that. The amber and black just seems too extreme. The amber and red is ok. It might look way better with the cherry burst. I wouldn't really consider any colors other than what I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I probably won't even listen. ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 So with all of the foolishness that's happening about the board, I'm hesitant to post on anyone else's threads. I just don't have the urge to help right now quite honestly. The situation would be different if I was asked outright. None the less, I'm more than happy to add to my own post. I get a kick out of what you guys have to say about this guitar. I can take the "launch pad" comments in stride. So here are the pics of my latest progress.(Everything is a thumbnail, click to enlarge). Hopefully these thumbnails don't fall within the "zero tolerance policy"(which I get a huge kick out of, might I add). If they do, well then I guess I'll see you guys around. This is a picture of the inside of the back of the guitar. Before I do the final contouring, I do a cascading route in the back to waste most of the wood. I route to within 1/8" of the final thickness. The rest is done with a 2 1/2HP "dremel." The hole is for the battery box. This is the fretboard that led to cudbucket's and my argument(argument). If you look closely, the eleventh(I think) fret is about 1/16" off on the high E side. What a shame. Thanks again Fryovanni for the great deal. According to FedEx I'll be getting the replacement tomorrow. This is a picture of the stewmac wooden binding I've got on the body. There are actually only two pieces. The inside purfing on the top(b/w/b/w) is one piece, and the outside binding and the purfing below it are another piece. I made another post about how easy it is to bend this stuff(that post). The jack hole looks a little awkward in this shot, but in reality, it's dead on. It's a rectangle with two half circles on either end. It had to be as big as possible as it has two 1/4" jacks, one of which is a 9pin; I'm also putting a few of the pots into the body through this jack. The rest go in from the battery hole. This is an image of the leaf inlay that adorns the back of the head stock. The leaf is green abalone and the stem is flamed maple. You'll notice a little tear out near the tuner holes. Fortunately, it's all so minor it will disappear during final sanding. None of the leaves in these pictures have received their final scribing yet either. They will all have veins before I put the finish on. I'm also debating on putting a very thin line of gold paint around the outside edge of the leaves on the back to compliment the gold on the front of the guitar. Haven't decided on that yet. The gold paint found in craft stores is very convincing though. This is a picture of the 4 leaves that I inlayed into the back of the guitar. The leaves are green abalone and the stems are ebony. These will get the gold outline too if I decide to go that route. The hole in the top left corner of the pic is for the battery box. Hope you guys enjoy the luthier's pron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Hey man whats up besides all the madness around here? I really think you've done some very nice stuff on your project, a lot of it seems very difficult. Have you decided on finish? How will you do the burst on the control area? Will you do a mini burst right on the flat portion or will you just keep to the regular burst and not make any changes in that area? I hope that made sense. That headstock is cool, I really put 4 or 5 hours in the other day trying to decide on a headstock pattern. What I came up with is very similar to yours and Simo's headstock. I couldn't decide if I wanted the curve across the top or if I wanted it flat. Either way it will be similar but not the same. Anyways the project seems like it's getting close, it's lookin good! Is there going to be any other unique features on it? Well, nice stuff man and I can't wait to see it done. Also you are welcome to post on my thread, I don't care, it doesn't even have to be about my project, just as it's not about the stuff thas been going on here lately, I'm bored of that stuff! Well I'll talk with you later man, I'll probably pm you about some chambering stuff later I think I'll need some advice, I'll be cutting and chambering real soon. Thanks for your help and nice work with your guitar, it's going to be a very classy and unique guitar. Later! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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