whats_this Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Okay so today i started building my guitar, and spent the morning hand sanding the two edges to be joined, man i wish i had a jointer. I've got the two pieces to join together (not glued ) with about 0.5mm gap and so i was just wondering if this is fairly decent attempt, or could it be better. pictures can be found here. http://photobucket.com/albums/b2/whats_this123/. First three pics are the side i plan to use as the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 I wish you had a jointer too.......... Ask around at local cabinet/furniture making shops to see if they could joint the edges for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 What He Said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whats_this Posted August 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 will a jointer actually leave it perfectly flush? i was under the impression a jointer would still not be perfect. Fair enough if it does, just dont know. You live and you learn i suppose. Cheers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 I see that your in the UK, where did you get the wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whats_this Posted August 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 david dykes, www.luthierssupplies.co.uk. the website really isnt very helpfull but give them a ring and they will sort you out. They know what they are talking about and the guy i spoke to on the phone was very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted August 9, 2005 Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 Someone else told me about him too. I guess he must be good. I used craft supplies and i wasn't really impressed. Can i ask how much that cost you? Is it alder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whats_this Posted August 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 yes its american alder and was £35 before vat and delivery. cant remember how much delivery was as i ordered a load of other stuff from him at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whats_this Posted August 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2005 (edited) Just found a cabinet maker down the road said he would do it for £5-£10 some time tommorow. Just so its on the board, the guys name is Lee from Wood and pencil designs in Carshalton, Surrey. Edited August 10, 2005 by whats_this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar_Brent Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Just found a cabinet maker down the road said he would do it for £5-£10 some time tommorow. Just so its on the board, the guys name is Lee from Wood and pencil designs in Carshalton, Surrey. ← Whats that In USD ? i would say that gap you have is kinda big. and you can set up a router to edge joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronBlack Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Brent, do you have any links or information on how to setup a router for use as a jointer, as this would be something very useful for those of us who don't have jointers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 There are two ways i can think of. 1st (and this is what I do as I do not have a jointer) use a router table with a split fence. Get the fences square and perfectly even with the bit, so if you ran the board across there would be no cutting. Then take the fence on your feed side and push it back just a hair. You feed from that side, it cuts the wood and on the out side it's flush with the fence so it won't cut any deeper than that. DO 2-3 passes and you'll be pretty spot on if you set it up right. The other way would be to clamp the board down to a table top with the edge lapping over the edge of the table, and clamp a fence to the back of the board that will let you run your router along the straight edge and have it positioned to shave 1/16 of wood at a time off your board. As long as your straight edge is straight you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I would try to get joints a bit closer than that. You mentioned you had sanded the edges. How long of a block are you using? If you use a long (16-18") block to sand the edges, and use full even strokes across the full length of the board you will straighten those edges. The big trick to using a sanding block is keeping it square as you sand. This can be done with good results by setting both the sanding block and wood being sanded on a flat surface. keep the sanding block square on edge and slide it back and forth. Even after joining sometimes a little touch up sanding can be needed, and this method works well. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I often times prep for joining just with sandpaper - I use two long surfaces to make a 90 degree angle (a perfectly straight 2x4 clamped to a large workbench works, I use two long pieces of aluminum channel I got at the scrap yard) with a fair length of 60 grit sandpaper attached. (self adhesive paper, double stick tape or adhesive spray) Usually I shoot for my sandpaper and straight edges to be at least one and half times the length of whatever side I'm trying to smooth up. Take whatever you're sanding, and hold it against the back of this assembly (keeps your edge from going out of square) And run the whole thing against the sandpaper. The more surface you have to sand against, the easier I find it goes. Depending on the wood, I can usually have my handsaw cuts smoothed up for joining incredibly quick. My router fence is messed up right now and I never got around to fixing it, so I always end up using either a follower bit or a guide for my router base to run against to square things up - but if I'm doing more than one piece of wood, (or a piece too thick for my router bit to get in one pass) it's actually quicker to set this contraption up once and use this than set up the router for each piece of wood. Maybe I just like hand sanding too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nollock Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 david dykes, www.luthierssupplies.co.uk. the website really isnt very helpfull but give them a ring and they will sort you out. They know what they are talking about and the guy i spoke to on the phone was very helpful. ← He's expensive but you do get great service and top quality. Craft Supplies are cheaper but with variable quality. (Imo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whats_this Posted August 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Well, I just got back from having the wood put through the jointer and it did make a big difference compared to how it was. I was sanding with a 16" stew mac fret leveller and I think the problem was mostly just my lack of experience and just really not knowing exactly what I should be aiming for, after I’ve finished building this guitar I think I’m just going to spend some time practicing on scrap before I do the next one. Maybe if I’d stuck at it I would of got it flush. It only took lee 2 minutes to run it through, he didn’t charge me anything and gave me a load of great advice. He also gave me some names of good local timber yards (and who to avoid) and has some nice short pieces of black American walnut which he is checking if he can do a deal on. He is also happy to sort out cutting out the body and neck and thickness everything so I am more than happy with my mornings work. Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 If you hold the two pieces of wood together at the joint line and can see light shining through, its not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar_Brent Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 There are two ways i can think of. 1st (and this is what I do as I do not have a jointer) use a router table with a split fence. Get the fences square and perfectly even with the bit, so if you ran the board across there would be no cutting. Then take the fence on your feed side and push it back just a hair. You feed from that side, it cuts the wood and on the out side it's flush with the fence so it won't cut any deeper than that. DO 2-3 passes and you'll be pretty spot on if you set it up right. The other way would be to clamp the board down to a table top with the edge lapping over the edge of the table, and clamp a fence to the back of the board that will let you run your router along the straight edge and have it positioned to shave 1/16 of wood at a time off your board. As long as your straight edge is straight you should be good to go. ← Thats how to do it. and like i had said in other posts hand plans work well too, just takes some time and practice to get it down. for the time it would take to sand an edge you could do 100 edges with a hand plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I'm going to second J. Pierce's idea. All you have to do is make a 90 degree fence and bolt it to the table. Stick some sandpaper down and you've got a jointer. This is really thin really soft wood we're dealing with here!! As long as you keep the pressure even and take your time you can save the trip to the shop. It's great that you have someone who can work with you, but in a pinch the "homemade sander jointer" will work just fine and give you an invisible seam. A general comment here. The guy I apprenticed to taught me right off the bat that the seam will look no better glued up than it does dry. If you have to clamp the bejeezus out of a joint to draw it up you are introducing a level of stress that may come back to bite you later. Glue also makes a lousey gap filler in the long run. Wood filler always looks like crap unless it's somewhere that you can't really see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Glue also makes a lousey gap filler in the long run. clarification...alphetic resin and hide glues(as well as ca) make lousy gap fillers. epoxy on the other hand,actually requires a small gap to bond full strength....but using epoxy will create a very visible glue line,which is fine for an opaque finish,but not so much for clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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