Making A Neck - How Scary Or Difficult?

[erikbojerik]

I dont think erikbojerik is getting "hung up" on this issue.  I think he's just trying to assure people that if they want to it's not that hard to build a neck.

←

+1

As Nike would say, Just Do It! Take the plunge! Then if it doesn't get you juiced, its no biggie to have someone else do the neck. The important part is its YOUR axe, do it YOUR way!

Then when you think you've really done your best neck ever, give it over to some really good players (not to say that I'm not, but...that's another topic). Some of the music store guys I run into are really very good players, and they can give you valuable feedback. But then again, keep in mind that how a neck "feels" (back contour, thickness, radius, fret size, etc) is a very subjective thing.

[rhoads56]

Is a guy who installs a custom tail light in your asian import racer, a car builder??

Is a guy who mows your lawn once a month, and thats ALL he does, a gardener?

Is the clown who painted the walls in your new house, a builder?

Is your local seedy mechanic, who speciliases in stealing the change from your centre console, and doing oil changes, an engine builder?

Is the dude across the road who does his own oil changes, a mechanic?

Is the guy who buys a prefab neck and body, and slaps it all together, a guitar maker?

[n8rofwyo]

Interesting to see everyone's input on this subject.

Personally, I agree that creating a guitar includes creating the neck and fingerboard. The process of making the guitar, to me, means altering anything involving wood - and then applying the proper finish to that wood. I simply assemble hardware and electronics.

But the only reason I feel this way is because the whole process is very important to me personally. If MY neck and MY fingerboard aren't on MY body, it's not MY guitar. That isn't to say that any of the three guitars Iv'e made are terriffic by any means. My first guitar was an abomination. It was body heavy with a great orange peel finish. The neck was far too thick, as well as too narrow at the nut. Two frets were off kilter, and not a single fret was the same height before dressing. In fact I didn't bother crowning them because several had been ground down so low.

The level of satisfaction I get from doing everything I can possibly do myself is what drives me to keep building guitars. The only thing that currently bothers me is that I don't do inlay - even bad inlay.

I concur that the process should be rewarding regardless of what the process is for each of us. As for myself, I wouldn't even dream of selling one of my guitars to someone else. I'm simply not good enough for that to be a reality at this point. And that's fine, it keeps the time I have to work on my guitars pure and unmolested by meeting deadlines and budgets. But it also heightens my respect for the pros here who are willing and able to do just that and still stop in to PG to answer questions and give advice.

So in conclusion: If it makes you happy building it - whatever extent that may be- then do it, and post pics of it to keep the rest of us happy as well.

Nate Robinson

[fryovanni]

Seems like the most common problem and fear is shaping the back of the neck ( specifically carving too deep). I have a suggestion. Go buy a 2x4. Cut that sucker into 6 neck blanks. Mark the boards up for 3- Flat headstock necks and 3-angled headstock w/ scarf joints. Route for truss rods, cut your scarf joints, shape your headstocks, drill for your tuners, and shape the back of the necks. The second most common fear seems to be with fret slotting. Well buy a second 2x4 cut it into 16 fretboards and practice marking and slotting, then check your results against a plotted 1-1 drawing for reference. That is a quick way to get over your fears, get plenty of practice, experiment to find the best methods for your style. $5-$6 worth of wood and glue buys you a lot of experience. Shoot you can carve one right down to the truss route just to get it out of your system. If you still don't feel comfortable buy another 2x4.

If you can destroy $20 worth of 2x4's and still can't make a neck. (I would really be shocked).

Peace,Rich

P.S. All this discussion about what a Guitar Builder is or isn't is silly to me. Who really cares. You are building, learning, and should be proud of your work.

[n8rofwyo]

Amen to that, fryovanni!

[thegarehanman]

I'm with fryovanni here. Any money you blow making a neck, is well worth the money considering the experience you get.

And my $.02 is: If you go with a standard 1 way truss rod and a curved slot, you have to carve the neck pretty darn thin before you hit that route.

...and while we're calling spades spades...

Is your local seedy mechanic, who speciliases in stealing the change from your centre console, and doing oil changes, an engine builder?

Is the dude across the road who does his own oil changes, a mechanic?

Logical reasoning tells me this

-If one specializes in stealing money and doing oil changes, than one is a mechanic

-The dude across the street steals

-The dude across the street changes his own oil

-Thus, the dude across the street is a mechanic

Valid form, but unsound argument.

You don't have to build necks to be a guitar builder. You have to build necks to be a competent and accomplished guitar builder. I build my necks, if people don't want to build theirs, it's simply their loss.

peace,

russ

[jamesj]

I'm trying to save my neck!

I got carried away with the sander, cut it down to 1/2 thick around the 1st and 2nd fret (thats without the fret board) and I didnt expose the truss rod but I know its close the grove depth is 3/8, I'm filling in the hole with a strip of oak (had a peice that happened to fit) I am going to glue a fret board shaped peice on top of it a 1/4 thick rerout my slot and hope it works! my head (tele style) will be a little lower than it should, but I cant help that.

[fryovanni]

Do you think you have 1/8" behind the truss rod route? I believe that is considered to be the thinnest safe thickness. I am not sure if your 1/2" & 3/8" are actual or just ballpark #'s you are throughing out. Good Luck with it, sounds like you have a plan B if it is too thin.

Peace,Rich

I'm trying to save my neck!

I got carried away with the sander, cut it down to 1/2 thick around the 1st and 2nd fret (thats without the fret board)  and I didnt expose the truss rod but I know its close the grove depth is 3/8, I'm filling in the hole with a strip of oak (had a peice that happened to fit) I am going to glue a fret board shaped peice on top of it a 1/4 thick rerout my slot and hope it works! my head (tele style) will be a little lower than it should, but I cant help that.

←

[Mickguard]

Now, If I'd have went all around showing it off, and saying, "I built this guitar", I would have felt terrible.  I don't know how anyone could do something like that, knowing they didn't make the neck.

←

There's the clue: I'm not trying to show off. I'm not trying to live up to anyone else's standards or opinions or expectations.

Now I fully respect your right to establish your own threshold as to what you consider "your" build --if you're not comfortable with a bought neck, kudos for you.

But I don't think ANYONE has the right to impose THEIR expectations on SOMEONE ELSE. You have the right to your opinion--but it will never be anything more than that. Opinion.

This thread started off trying to determine what's so scary about building a neck--I thought the spirit was to help people (like me too) get over the scary part and give it a try.

I didn't think it would become a soapbox for snobbism!

So I have to say: Yes, you can claim the guitar as your own if you build it from a kit, bought the neck, built it from scratch --it's your project!

Personally, I've never tried to fool anyone about the Bocaster--I'm up front about the whole process. (Of course, people will always ask "and you did the neck?" and look all disappointed when I say no )

One thing I certainly NEVER do: I never tell people I'm a luthier or a guitar-builder. That's a real profession, a real craft, I have tons of respect for that and there's no way I'm trying to measure my own efforts against the work of a true professional.

Meanwhile, a BIG part of the fun for me is hunting down what I consider just the right parts for the guitar I want. Including finding just the right neck. And coming up with my goofy ideas for doing things.

And yeah, while I'm making my templates and getting ready to cut out and route my project's body, I'm not picking my nose here--I'm building something. MY guitar.

Where's Drak when you need him?

[Maiden69]

Go buy a 2x4. Cut that sucker into 6 neck blanks. Mark the boards up for 3- Flat headstock necks and 3-angled headstock w/ scarf joints. Route for truss rods, cut your scarf joints, shape your headstocks, drill for your tuners, and shape the back of the necks.

I already did this and like I say, the back of the neck ain't nothing compared to the carve of a top.

Now this...

The second most common fear seems to be with fret slotting. Well buy a second 2x4 cut it into 16 fretboards and practice marking and slotting, then check your results against a plotted 1-1 drawing for reference. That is a quick way to get over your fears, get plenty of practice, experiment to find the best methods for your style. $5-$6 worth of wood and glue buys you a lot of experience. Shoot you can carve one right down to the truss route just to get it out of your system. If you still don't feel comfortable buy another 2x4.

If you can destroy $20 worth of 2x4's and still can't make a neck. (I would really be shocked).

I haven't done... not worried about fretboard, since that can be bought at a "reasonal" price, but the freting is the one that worried me. I haved level and recrowned fets, but I don't like the results so far. I don't have the right tools, (and alto Setch already almost convinced me) I think that with the right tools it will make a huge difference. I will be getting them at the end of November, so I will be able to call my self a guitar builder (Perry). I want to make a neck for my 7string to convert it from bolt on to set neck, and add a neck pup. So we will see how it turns.

P.S. All this discussion about what a Guitar Builder is or isn't is silly to me. Who really cares. You are building, learning, and should be proud of your work.

←

I think so the same, I will go one step at a time, I already got the bodies done to were I can make one in a day with not too much hasle, and I will like to get the necks to the same level!

[Mattia]

I feel there's a distinct difference between a guitar you've assembled from parts, or even partially assembled, to a 'properly' home built one. They're all project guitars, but they're not all the same. They can be great instrument in their own right.

My first project was a warmoth parts strat which, while fun, taught me very little. It was pretty rewarding, but nowhere near as rewarding as building the next 8 (or 9..I forget) from scratch. This said, most people still asked, after being told that I'd built that guitar, whether I'd actually made the neck myself. For some reason, this seems to impress people.

Of course, it's a fine line between what you do and what you farm out; I'm fine with pre-slotted boards, as it's often just as easy to have someone do it for you, particularly if you're on a tight budget. I've got no issues with buying binding, purfling, etc. But for something as crucial as neck feel, look, carve, make 'em yourself. If you go into production, make a master, have them rough-CNC'd to shape, then at least finish them/fine tune them by hand (many do this), but you move to the CNC only after you've mastered the art on it's own. This said, given how fast a neck can be made by hand, this approach isn't economically viable for most, and certainly not for the hobby builder. In the theoretical case that I 'went pro', assuming about 15-20 instruments a year, I'd still do my own necks. Probably make a few router templates for 'standard' tapers and the like, just to get the boring, basic shaping out of the way quickly, but I'd carve by hand, because it's fun, and it lets you define how each individual instrument feels.

Back on topic: I've built (I think) an even dozen necks. All but two are (chiefly) mahogany, all but two are scarf jointed. Mahogany's a pleasure to scarf joing, as it planes easily. Handsaw+block plane+20 minutes is more than enough time to get a scarf perfect. Go slow, measure often, take your time.

Post-scarfing, I install CF rods (a pair of 3/8"x 1/8") and a hot rod truss rod. Never done a single, curved compression rod, because with the added CF, I like the cheap insurance the HotRods are against too stiff a neck. Easy to install, adjust very well, no curved rod routing jigs to make.

I then do headstock shape, and rough out the taper, both back and fingerboard. I leave it all a bit 'wide', to carve it away by hand later.

Fingerboards I slot and radius myself. I built a router jig for the latter (arched base for a router, riding on two wheels) which does the trick, but it sure isn't fancy. Fast, though. Follow with 3-4 minutes of sanding with a radiussed block, and you've got a fingerboard that's ready for fretting, in theory. I taper the board before gluing, personally. Easier that way.

Dot inlays are trivially simple, other inlay, well, you decide. If you do binding (simple, glue after inlay so you can clear fret slots with a saw for board-spanning inlays), glue it on before gluing the board.

So far, we're talking pretty trivial stuff. One joint, a bit of routing, a bit of slotting, a bit of very basic shaping. Tools needed: router, saw, sandpaper, radius sanding blocks.

Next comes the bit people seem freaked by: carving the back of the neck.

Tools that you may use for this purpose - anything you're comfortable with! I used to enjoy the spokeshave I had, but it's so cheap and nasty I've moved away from it. If I get myself a decent one, odds are I'll start using it again. I wouldn't mind a drawknife either, but for a beginner, that strikes me as asking for trouble. My essential tools at the moment: straightedge, half-round rasp, flat microplane rasp, assorted scrapers, heavy-backed sandpaper in various grits, sanding blocks (hard, flat).

I start by defining the basic areas at the heel and headstock (I do volutes on my necks; I like the added strength, and I like the look). I then facet the shaft (see various tutorials) with the microplane, using even, straight strokes. KEEP THE CENTERLINE UNTOUCHED until the last moment! Ideally, you should have the back of the neck to finished thickness (plus an extra few thou for sanding) when the blank's still 'square' and uncarved. Don't touch the centerline, and you won't go too thing.

Check for flatness with a straightedge regularly. Don't worry overmuch about tiny fluctuations, as block sanding gets those out. Nice, sharp scrapers are great for doing final shaping, and 'shoeshining' with sandpaper is perfect for evening everything out. You use the paper to smooth everything out, and make sure you don't make anything too thin.

The one thing I would never, ever reccomend someone without neck making experience do is carve necks with any kind of power sander/tool unguided by templates. You're too likely to remove way too much wood too quickly. Do it with hand tools. It's plenty fast once you get the hang of it. I can rough out a neck in 30 or so minutes, and then generally spend another 30-60 fine-tuning the details until it feels just right. Each neck is unique.

Above all, like Rich said, if you don't feel comfortable with any of this, get some cheap scrap wood, and practice! You can easily make half a dozen necks in a weekend if need be.

[RGGR]

I can rough out a neck in 30 or so minutes, and then generally spend another 30-60 fine-tuning the details until it feels just right. Each neck is unique.

30 minutes, eh?

My first took almost 30 days.

[goth_fiend]

well I have built several bodies and have tried to make my own necks for since i signed up here (truth be told i havent tried to make a neck since the whole "situation") but i have been honing my skills pine(super cheap and easy as hell to work with) and im fairly sure i could easily build a neck from the ground up now, and i fully intend on doing so on this ironbird and with the extra blank i have here, i may even start a new guitar while im building the 'bird, this forum has so much information on every aspect of guitar building, it came be overwhelming sometimes when you really think about it, just take your time read through it and most of all USE THE INFORMATION GIVEN TO YOU! knowing how to build a guitar is all well and good but its nothing until you actually get out there and do it, i have been learing that for the last few months now.

[marksound]

There's the clue: I'm not trying to show off. I'm not trying to live up to anyone else's standards or opinions or expectations ... But I don't think ANYONE has the right to impose THEIR expectations on SOMEONE ELSE ... I didn't think it would become a soapbox for snobbism!

So I have to say: Yes, you can claim the guitar as your own if you build it from a kit, bought the neck, built it from scratch --it's your project! ... One thing I certainly NEVER do: I never tell people I'm a luthier or a guitar-builder ...

+1.

[goth_fiend]

^+2, hence why i have never built a guitar, i have done projects however.

[Mickguard]

Okay guys, here's some more of what I've been thinking (I blew off work today to spend the whole morning on my templates --pics soon in the progress section!):

There's peer pressure and there's peer pressure.

There's the kind that pushes you to do something you don't want to or don't need to do. Bad.

Then there's the other kind--and one of the reasons this forum is so important to me--it's the kind that's pushing you forward, making you work for your dream, the kind that doesn't let you just settle, or say 'good enough'...

For example, I spent most of the morning routing templates for the chambers I'm putting in this guitar. Now, these chambers will be covered up with a maple back and no one will ever see them once that's glued on.

BUT, I plan on putting up photos here of my progress --in part because a lot of you guys are really sharp, and see things that I might have missed. And knowing I'm going to be facing the scrutiny of some pretty critical -and often helpful-- people is making be try harder.

So instead of accepting the first template I'd prepared --the lines were pretty rough, but who cares, if they're covered up?-- I went ahead and made a second one, much better this time, much cleaner.

And it's going to make the guitar just a little bit nicer for me to play, knowing the insides are neat. Knowing that I went that extra step. That I didn't say 'good enough' but now I can say 'good.'

So yeah, guys, if your dream is to build 100 percent of your guitars, including your necks --go for it and don't give up!

But don't let anyone bully you.

[Mattia]

I can rough out a neck in 30 or so minutes, and then generally spend another 30-60 fine-tuning the details until it feels just right. Each neck is unique.

30 minutes, eh?

My first took almost 30 days.

←

Heh. You realize I'm referring strictly to carving the back of the neck, right? Routing slots, gluing fingerboards, etc. etc. takes quite a bit longer. Sometimes I go back again and again, fine-tuning volutes, neck shape, etc. so it might crawl all the way up to maybe 2 hours per neck carve, total. Bit more on an acoustic, where the heel takes time to get even and symmetrical.

[criss]

I think the feel of a neck is all subjective , one mans trash is anther mans treasure . Ive played and im sure other have too other people guitars and they don't like the feel .

So if i buy a pre made fretboard and attach that to my guitar neck am i still truely building my guitar ?

And should i start makeing my own pots , bridge , tuners etc to be a real builder .

Hmm maybe i should start makeing my own strings too .

[jamesj]

I'm building most of mine. I think I am kinda going for the gusto. making the pickups, bridge, strap buttons, etc... I have the tools for small metal working. My opinion is build what you can, but follow your own beliefs as to wether or not you actually "made" it. after all who here can make everything? I cant make the pots, switches, wire, or tuners (unless someone has the plans and parts list!)

The neck on mine (being a thru) and being poorly planned (I thought I planned enough) seems to be the toughest part so far. of course other than the templates and the tools (thickness sander, router table) its the only part so far...

[Guitarfrenzy]

So yeah, guys, if your dream is to build 100 percent of your guitars, including your necks --go for it and don't give up!

But don't let anyone bully you. 

←

I hope you don't think my post was being bullish, because that wasn't the intent. I was just stating how I felt about not building a neck, and how when people questioned about the guitar, how bad it felt to say, "we'll I didn't make the neck, but I did everything else." My whole point was how bad your depriving yourself of the joy of knowing you built a neck from scratch. It's a great feeling having someone play your guitar knowing you did everything. Which is why I still am striving to learn more myself, I still have more things I want to accomplish. Like getting a paint booth, making my own pickups, knobs, bridge, etc. That's not going to make me any better than anyone else, it's just something I want to do and enjoy.

It really doesn't matter if you build a neck or not to me. You can define what the term Guitar Builder means to you. We all have different opinions right... no biggy. Personally though, I know how much gratification you'll get from building a neck and I can tell you, your missing out on some real fun. That's all I'm saying. I have no doubt in my mind that each and everyone here can build a neck, but it's up to them to find the need and confidence to make one. I can understand if you don't have the desire to build a neck though, like Drak, and I respect that, but I also think he could build a neck if he wanted to also. And people like Maiden who doesn't quite yet have enough proper tools to start, I can understand fully, because when he starts he wants to have the tools to do it right, or he's not going to do it at all. I think if you want to build a neck Idch you should, and that you can build a good neck if you take your time, but that's you choice. I never said anyone has to make a neck, but for my opinion, I don't think you'd want to call yourself a Guitar Builder unless you do. Your opinion is probably different and that's ok...

[fryovanni]

Mattia,

Next comes the bit people seem freaked by: carving the back of the neck.

Tools that you may use for this purpose - anything you're comfortable with! I used to enjoy the spokeshave I had, but it's so cheap and nasty I've moved away from it. If I get myself a decent one, odds are I'll start using it again. I wouldn't mind a drawknife either, but for a beginner, that strikes me as asking for trouble. My essential tools at the moment: straightedge, half-round rasp, flat microplane rasp, assorted scrapers, heavy-backed sandpaper in various grits, sanding blocks (hard, flat).

I start by defining the basic areas at the heel and headstock (I do volutes on my necks; I like the added strength, and I like the look). I then facet the shaft (see various tutorials) with the microplane, using even, straight strokes. KEEP THE CENTERLINE UNTOUCHED until the last moment! Ideally, you should have the back of the neck to finished thickness (plus an extra few thou for sanding) when the blank's still 'square' and uncarved. Don't touch the centerline, and you won't go too thing.

Check for flatness with a straightedge regularly. Don't worry overmuch about tiny fluctuations, as block sanding gets those out. Nice, sharp scrapers are great for doing final shaping, and 'shoeshining' with sandpaper is perfect for evening everything out. You use the paper to smooth everything out, and make sure you don't make anything too thin.

The one thing I would never, ever reccomend someone without neck making experience do is carve necks with any kind of power sander/tool unguided by templates. You're too likely to remove way too much wood too quickly. Do it with hand tools. It's plenty fast once you get the hang of it. I can rough out a neck in 30 or so minutes, and then generally spend another 30-60 fine-tuning the details until it feels just right. Each neck is unique.

Very good explanation. Very very very close to the way I do my carve. I agree with the time frame to do this carve. About 30 min. and then play with it of and on (not to really remove much material just to touch up re-check and smooth.

Peace,Rich

[Mickguard]

I hope you don't think my post was being bullish, because that wasn't the intent.

←

Sure, no problem!

I'm actually talking about myself feeling bullied, not being bullied. Big difference!

Call what I wrote the 'Non-neck Builders Manifesto'

Anyway, think I found a really nice neck on ebay....gotta go!

[erikbojerik]

I didn't think it would become a soapbox for snobbism!

←

Well...you do realize that when more people build their own necks, fewer people need a luthier to do it for them.

Not the point of the thread, just a fact. That said, if you'd rather have a luthier do it for you, go for it...there's 100 reasons to go either way, I for one am not going to pass judgement, because ITS YOUR AXE!

Great posts Rich & Mattia both. I'd encourage anyone who has the inclination to make a neck to just give it a shot!

Where's Drak when you need him?

Building or jamming you can be sure, one or the other

[marksound]

I think sometimes people forget that everyone's goals are not the same. At the moment, building necks (or even bodies) doesn't suit my needs. Being able to do a great setup, wiring, adjusting, whatever, does. That's why I'm here. I could eventually figure all this stuff out for myself through trial and error, but why? The amount of experience available here shortens the learning curve dramatically.

I actually couldn't care less if people think my guitars suck just because I didn't cut down the tree.

[erikbojerik]

I actually couldn't care less if people think my guitars suck just because I didn't cut down the tree.

←

I actually will not consider myself a luthier until I can mine my own metal from the ground (from my own backyard, not someone else's!), forge my own bridge, and draw my own pickup wire.

Until then, I'll be content to hang with the rabble and hack away at my necks.