GuitarGuy Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Search on ebay for fresh air respirators, there's a guy who sells them for about $300. You can get it with anything from a half mask to a full hood. You'll probably want the full hood because, when spraying things like two packs, you'd need a hood one way or another. You know if you're going to drop so much $$$ on a booth, you have to spend some money on high quality finishes too...just to justify it. ← You can make your own. All it is is a small oil-less compressor pumping air to to a bucket on your head.... not that difficult. Not necessary unless you're spraying somthing with isocynates. A carbon filter should be fine for Rattle cans or just plain laquer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 That's the point though, if he's going to have a spray booth, he might as well go all the way and set it up so he can spray auto grade clear. I have a question about making your own air supply, guitarguy. How would you cool the air, or at least not heat it, as the units most people sell do? Typically air heats up when you compress it. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 That's the point though, if he's going to have a spray booth, he might as well go all the way and set it up so he can spray auto grade clear. I have a question about making your own air supply, guitarguy. How would you cool the air, or at least not heat it, as the units most people sell do? Typically air heats up when you compress it. peace, russ ← Technically, as vapor pressure goes when you release it. It should cool as well. Who knew thermodynamics would be useful? Granted it would probably be warmer but hey it dosent cost a ton of money. I've never built one so don't anyone take this as gospel. A cooling system may not be a bad idea. Maybe a heatsync with a fan. Its an idea. The way I figure if someone else can produce one, I can make a one off for myself. edit: Just did a little research and 7 cfm 0.5 psi is what most hobby systems put out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Sweet deal if anyone is looking for a commercial one. Sweet ebay deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 (edited) Sweet deal if anyone is looking for a commercial one. Sweet ebay deal ← Wow thanks so much for the link! Edited January 11, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 That's the point though, if he's going to have a spray booth, he might as well go all the way and set it up so he can spray auto grade clear. ← +1 That's why I thought he was doing this in the first place. What about a scuba tank, regulator & face mask? A little heavy perhaps, but better than dragging a hose around behind you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 +1 That's why I thought he was doing this in the first place. What about a scuba tank, regulator & face mask? A little heavy perhaps, but better than dragging a hose around behind you.... ← Honestly, I'd prefer a hose over 40+ pounds on my back. And if I remember correctly, scuba tank's are not 100% oxygen. I don't think that would affect this situation in any way though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lietuvis Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 That's pretty cool, but what exactly is a "panit" booth? haha... j/k Great job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I can tell some people have never been scuba diving before. If you think scuba gear is better or cheaper for this purpose, go take an intro scuba class at your local dive shop sometime. Scuba gear is designed to work optimally underwater under different atmospheric pressures than a 1000-foot above sea level paint booth. You'd wind up breathing in more fumes than you would without any mask at all, plus you'd destroy the gear in the process. You might as well pony up the cash to buy a real paint respirator system IF you're really going to utilize it. Otherwise, if you're just using the booth to keep bird guano off your finished guitars, why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 +1 That's why I thought he was doing this in the first place. What about a scuba tank, regulator & face mask? A little heavy perhaps, but better than dragging a hose around behind you.... ← Honestly, I'd prefer a hose over 40+ pounds on my back. And if I remember correctly, scuba tank's are not 100% oxygen. I don't think that would affect this situation in any way though. ← It is more than 50+ lbs, unless you get the high dolar composite tanks and the tank, regulator, octopus sum up to over $600. Believe me I'm a Diver! Abd there is not such a thing as 100% oxygen for diving. If you breath 100% O it will burn your throat and make you halucinate among other things! The air in the tanks is the same that firefighters use, regular "dried" compressed air. And just in case you didn't know the air you breath everyday is only about 8% Oxygen, 70% nitrogen abd the rest on inert gases... Sorry for the bio class!!! Scuba gear is designed to work optimally underwater under different atmospheric pressures than a 1000-foot above sea level paint booth. You'd wind up breathing in more fumes than you would without any mask at all Wrong! But kinda close, the octopus is the valve that let you get air when you breath in! There are no fumes that will get sucked in at any moment! Once again it is the same concept as the firefighters tanks, the only difference is the mask-octopus, and that the material of the tank is different. (scuba) is stronger to withstand the preassuse of the water at different atmospheric levels. Every 33 feet it changes starting a sea level. The gear won't get destroyed, but there is far better uses for a scuba gear that to paint a guitar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Well, my scuba gear is cheap-ass SeaQuest crap I bought in college. The only time it ever works properly is underwater. Out of the water the second-stage tends to free flow and somehow get particles stuck in it in the process--and no, I don't drag it around in the dirt! I haven't dove with that stuff in five years, so I should probably trade up for some quality Sherwood or Tusa gear if I ever really get back into diving again. Although, my old SeaQuest MPV3 is still the best BC I've used yet. But yeah, hauling a 60lb. ALUMINUM tank around on your back in a small paint booth is definitely not worth the money you'd save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugman96 Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 And just in case you didn't know the air you breath everyday is only about 8% Oxygen, 70% nitrogen abd the rest on inert gases... 78% Nitrogen 21% oxygen the rest is carbon dioxide, inert gases, and pollutants Paint booth looks cool; can't really say more than that because I don't know much about the topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitefly SA Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 learn more in one post than 18 weeks of biology, PG rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 And just in case you didn't know the air you breath everyday is only about 8% Oxygen, 70% nitrogen abd the rest on inert gases... 78% Nitrogen 21% oxygen the rest is carbon dioxide, inert gases, and pollutants Paint booth looks cool; can't really say more than that because I don't know much about the topic You are right, I got confused with the fact that you consume 8% of the 21 that's on the air. Thanks for the correction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hey Godin, my son goes to college in San Antonio so when I come to visit him I may have to bring some unfinished guitar bodies with me. Seriously, that's a serious booth. Hope it works out well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 (edited) Hey Godin, my son goes to college in San Antonio so when I come to visit him I may have to bring some unfinished guitar bodies with me. Seriously, that's a serious booth. Hope it works out well for you. Auccualy I was thinking of organizing some kind of get together for everyone on the forum who wants to attend. Mabey we'll have it at my house and have a kind of a "tech day" where everyone shares there building knowledge, jams out, and eats good Texas BBQ ahh life is good I mean your only in houston and tons of people here are from texas. I think it would be cool to have a forum get together. I'd love to meet you guys and learn some of what you know Edited January 14, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 You can make your own. All it is is a small oil-less compressor pumping air to to a bucket on your head.... not that difficult. Not necessary unless you're spraying somthing with isocynates. A carbon filter should be fine for Rattle cans or just plain laquer. Sure ya can, if ya wanna die. A fresh air compressor is a special kind of compressor, more involved than just oil-less. It's a turbine compressor to start with. Unlike a small oil-less compressor you will not breathe any fumes from the heating electrical components etc. Also, you don't want more than about 7psi for your fresh airsystem. Anyway, Godin, I see some serious issues with your booth. First of all, the lights inside like that, I don't care how good you sealed with silicone it's not good enough. ALL electrical HAS to be outside of the booth, ESPECIALLY if you are going to spray laquers. If you are going to spray laquers those plastic covers on your lights are worthless, the solvents will seep right through. You need either glass or lexan. What is the cord hanging down inside the booth on the right hand side? Electrical? or is that an airline? Evacuating the booth once every 30 seconds is not enough in this case. Next, you have NO filters in your exhaust, so you're just sucking the overspray through the fan? You're going to end up with an out of balance fan that is going to eventually shake and rub, sparks possibly. BOOM. Beyond that, why bother with a booth if you're not going to filter the exhaust air? You're just sending the pollutants outside now. If you do run a fresh air system now all you're going to do is end up breathing in the overspray again since the compressor HAS to be outside of the booth. Last of all, SILICONE??????? IN A BOOTH!!!!!!!!!!!! Just coat your walls with oil now. Man, I don't get silicone anywhere withing 100 feet of a paint booth. Even the fumes given off by silicone while curing will cause paint issues. If you had to seal things, you should have just used caulking. I forsee problems, the biggest one being, as soon as you build any sort of permanent makeshift paint booth you are subject to inspections. If an inspector comes along you better be SURE that booth is up to code and as it sits there is nothing in there that would meet code. This is why if you are going to spray 2 part paints you invest in a proper booth, and if you're not, hanging some poly in a room and just using a fan to send the fumes outside is a better way to go in the long run. Sorry to be a downer, but while I appreciate your effort and congratulate you on your ingenuity, I think you are setting yourself up for a rather expensive mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 (edited) Okay so your saying I need to put the lights outside the booth with either glass or lexan? that can and will be done Next the "cord" hanging down is the door jam. Look closer. I guess I just photographed that horriably wrong. Next I need to filter the exaust fumes. Is there any special filter I need to use? I'm not 100% sure what your saying the issue is with the silicon. Is it dangerous does it just make problems with the paint curing because it gasses off? Also the input fan. Do you think I should just remove it and let the air just suck through the filter? If I did all that do you think the booth would be safe? Anything else you see needs to be done? Edited January 14, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGM Guitars Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Godin, Sadly nothing you can do to that booth will make it meet any codes, so what you need to do is make it as safe as possible so that SHOULD anyone complain and an official looks at it, you can at least plead that it's HOBBY only and used rarely and that you didn't realize what had to be done to make it legal. As long as you appear to have researched some and do things correctly things often will be ok. As for the lights, yes, cut an opening in your walls and then use a piece of lexan (plexiglass is fine and easier to find) and screw it to the wall. Then use the aluminum furnace duct tape, not regular duct tape but the aluminum stuff and run it over the seam inside AND out. Then mount your lights outside. This will allow your light in, but there will be NO electrical connections physically inside the booth, that is key! As for your intake fan, yes, I'd get rid of it altogether, if you dont', you will have to put one in that is the same as your exhaust, where the motor is isolated outside of the booth where no fumes could possibly get to it. The problem with what it is, is should the fan ever jam, you now have a working motor in direct fume and overspray. I would get rid of it completely and simply put some furnace filters over the opening, one thick should be fine. Your exhaust is the tricky one. Go to an automotive paint supply store and buy some exhaust filters. They're cheap, a couple bucks each or something. build yourself a frame to hold them and mount that in front of your exhaust fan. Then I would also put another filter behind the fan to catch any particles that may not get trapped in the first one. Your exhaust fan MUST duct to the outside, preferably through the roof of your shop. Ducting it directly into the shop is pointless, it just puts the fumes back in a dangerous area. The door frame really looks like a cord, sorry, didn't realize it was a door frame As for the silicon, it's not dangerous at all, but it contaminates everything. Paint will fisheye like mad if there is ANY residue on what you're painting. The problem with having the silicon in the booth is if you should even wipe against it and then touch what you are painting it will leave residue behind. Silicon and paint never go together, kind of like baking soda and vinegar The biggest issue is going to be getting ALL electrical (lights) outside of the booth. Also, when you run your air lines into the booth, make sure those fittings are sealed to the walls. (I assume you don't have your compressor in the booth!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Okay thank you ver much for your help. I'm not sure if you can tell this from the pics but the output fan is ducted outside... So i'm going to remove the input fan, seal all the lights outside the booth and filter the output fan. Thanks for all your help. I wan't to make this thing as safe as possiable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Sure ya can, if ya wanna die. A fresh air compressor is a special kind of compressor, more involved than just oil-less. It's a turbine compressor to start with. Unlike a small oil-less compressor you will not breathe any fumes from the heating electrical components etc. Also, you don't want more than about 7psi for your fresh airsystem. I respectfully disagee Actually did the homework on this one. The air coming form a turbine or centrifugal compared to an oil-less piston pump is pretty much the same. The kicker is that it needs to be oil less. If an oiled resevoir compressor gets hot the oil smoulders and produces CO and CO2. This being said I would burn in an oil less first to makes sure any manufacturing oils, etc are burned off. Moisture can be an issue so a moisture trap might be a good idea too. Last time I checked (10 minutes ago)oil less piston compressors have no more electric parts and the turbines do so I dont see what your getting at? Perhaps ozone from the motor but that is a gas you can smell and therefore detectable. But again they both have electric motors. An from the reviews I've read the trubines get plenty hot. (too hot to touch). In the grand scheme of things you can run just a hose from your mask to outside and it will work. (minus not having positive pressure) I have also looked into using general air pumps because the psi is not important. Like a heavy duty inflator fan for a mattress. Like I said eariler most models ive looked at run at 0.5psi. some information I did find on it. Excerpt from an article on using industrial air compressors. OSHA 1910.134 specifies that breathing air compressors must be constructed and situated so as to "avoid entry of contaminated air into the system." Inlet air must contain no less than 19.5 % and no more than 23.5 % oxygen, no more than 10 ppm carbon monoxide, and no more than 1000 ppm carbon dioxide. Another issue is the amount of moisture present in inlet air. Although not dangerous in the sense of toxicity, excessive moisture in the airstream can lead to rusting, filter damage, or actually prevent the proper operation of some types of air-supplying respirators. When inlet air at room temperature and normal humidity is compressed, the dew point (temperature at which water will condense out of the gaseous state) is raised significantly. This presents problems downstream of the compressor since the water will condense out of the airstream when heat is lost to the surrounding atmosphere. (Most breathing air compressors are fitted with an aftercooler, a coarse pre-filter, and an auto draining water trap designed to reduce excessive downstream moisture.) The second source of contamination is the compressor itself. All oil lubricated compressors, regardless of age and maintenance record, contaminate the airstream to some degree with lubricant oil mists and particles of rust. (In fact, Grade D breathing air may permissibly contain up to 5 mg per cubic meter of condensed lubricant oil.) Carbon monoxide presents a more insidious danger. If a compressor begins to overheat to the point that the lubricant oil begins to burn or "smoke", even trivial or otherwise permissible concentrations of lubricant oil can produce lethal concentrations of carbon monoxide. Grade D air may not contain more than 10 ppm carbon monoxide. The third source of potential contamination (especially in the case of permanently installed air delivery systems) are the lines, fittings and other elements of the system used to distribute air from the compressor to individual respirator users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 I don't think you could ever get a fresh air supply to work by simply attaching a hose to a mask and putting the other end of the hose outside of the booth. Even if you used a typical filter mask so the air was released from the mask, not the tube, it wouldn't work. Since it would take less force for the CO2 to go back into the tube than through the outlet on the mask, it'd obviously just go back into the tube. Ultimately, I think you'd get little, if any, fresh air. I think the inflatable matress compressor would be the safest of the cheap air supplies, but I really wouldn't expect them to last very long considering they're not designed for constant operation. When it comes down to it, if you're going to go through the trouble of building a spray booth and dropping the cash for a powerful enough explosion proof fan, another $300 for a fresh air supply really isn't that outrageous. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 In that perspective, i see what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.