NickCormier Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) Hello everyone. I have been trying to make a custom guitar since January, planning it out and figuring out what I want. I have basically designed it all already, and have the money to do it now (assuming I sell these 2 guitars I have) Now unfortunately, Im not the best builder, and I would attempt making my own guitar, and probably will play around with it this summer, but for this guitar, I want it to be done by someone who actually knows what they are doing, and can make good guitars. Which isnt me. I have talked to about 10 people so far about it, and some I have an issue with pricing, others I just dont have too much contact with (they reply like once a month; not good communication is risky) or they simply dont feel like doing this style of work. I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me building my guitar, I have every detail down exact, and I also have ALMOST all the parts (just missing the trem, and fretboard with my special inlays) so it would be purely wood/labor fees for the project. I have every hardware piece down to the straplocks, the only thing I dont have is wires connecting the pickup to the knob and jacks, but I have the pickup, knob, pot, jack, everything else. I will introduce you to my design. It is basically a Jackson Rhoads style guitar, with a 1/8th" Quilted maple veneer on top, Stained Blue. Maple Neckthrough, with Alder body-wings. Reverse Jackson headstock with matching veneer, Maple fretboard with my custom inlays (Ibanez Tree of life with 1st fret modify) and 24frets, 25.5" scale. A Dimarzio x2n pickup, One volume knob, Control cavity big enough for battery (incase I wanna switch the pickup in the future) Fender-style jack on the upper-wing. Ibanez Edge pro bridge (if I can find one used) with locking nut on neck. Neck profile similar to that of a Wizard neck in terms of thickness (ibanez) Here is a picture from the JCF generator of my dream guitar The inlays, can be seen in details here http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i139/Nic...r/Vineboard.jpg If someone can even do the inlay work, that would be Great! The Ibanez Vine inlays can be bought off ebay for like $50, its just the first fret needs to be modified (and with filling, dont think it'll look good, so might have to cut off the first fret that way.) So, if Anyone can help me with this, It would be very apprieciated. thegarehanman told me the average labor cost shouldnt be over like $300 for a body, so add the wood (shouldnt be too much, $100 or so?) finish ($100 or so) and if I dont supply the fretboard, and have that made.. That is around the area I am looking to pay. If you can help me, or know someone who can, PM me! Thanks so much guys Edited July 13, 2006 by NickCormier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I think this is in the wrong section --this is not a project, it's a classified ad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCormier Posted July 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Yah possibly, I did see people putting up their designs though, least the beginning stages of them, so thought I would give it a try. Unfortunately, I dont get too much replies from the Solid body section. Sorry if it is though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernova9 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Hello everyone. I have been trying to make a custom guitar since January, planning it out and figuring out what I want. I have basically designed it all already, and have the money to do it now (assuming I sell these 2 guitars I have) Now unfortunately, Im not the best builder, and I would attempt making my own guitar, and probably will play around with it this summer, but for this guitar, I want it to be done by someone who actually knows what they are doing, and can make good guitars. Which isnt me. I have talked to about 10 people so far about it, and some I have an issue with pricing, others I just dont have too much contact with (they reply like once a month; not good communication is risky) or they simply dont feel like doing this style of work. I was wondering if anyone might be able to help me building my guitar, I have every detail down exact, and I also have ALMOST all the parts (just missing the trem, and fretboard with my special inlays) so it would be purely wood/labor fees for the project. I have every hardware piece down to the straplocks, the only thing I dont have is wires connecting the pickup to the knob and jacks, but I have the pickup, knob, pot, jack, everything else. I will introduce you to my design. It is basically a Jackson Rhoads style guitar, with a 1/8th" Quilted maple veneer on top, Stained Blue. Maple Neckthrough, with Alder body-wings. Reverse Jackson headstock with matching veneer, Maple fretboard with my custom inlays (Ibanez Tree of life with 1st fret modify) and 24frets, 25.5" scale. A Dimarzio x2n pickup, One volume knob, Control cavity big enough for battery (incase I wanna switch the pickup in the future) Fender-style jack on the upper-wing. Ibanez Edge pro bridge (if I can find one used) with locking nut on neck. Neck profile similar to that of a Wizard neck in terms of thickness (ibanez) Here is a picture from the JCF generator of my dream guitar The inlays, can be seen in details here http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i139/Nic...r/Vineboard.jpg If someone can even do the inlay work, that would be Great! The Ibanez Vine inlays can be bought off ebay for like $50, its just the first fret needs to be modified (and with filling, dont think it'll look good, so might have to cut off the first fret that way.) So, if Anyone can help me with this, It would be very apprieciated. thegarehanman told me the average labor cost shouldnt be over like $300 for a body, so add the wood (shouldnt be too much, $100 or so?) finish ($100 or so) and if I dont supply the fretboard, and have that made.. That is around the area I am looking to pay. If you can help me, or know someone who can, PM me! Thanks so much guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sambo Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Why not take the hint of the flavour of the forum and... Make it yourself! Give it a go. Whats the worst that could happen (ok, except a lost finger, gouged out eye, empty wallet bolah blah)?? Realistically it can be done with a router, follower bit, some drill bits, sandpaper and a few other hand tools if you have prepared wood. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Check out some of the custom builders we have visit here. Perry (Rhoads56), David Myka, Jeremy (LGM guitars) etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 $3000 and 18-24 months wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCormier Posted July 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) lol. so why would thegarehanman, unclej and other builders I talked to, all say a reasonable price, but You guys (who im assuming are NOT professional builders, just hobbyists) are saying $3000. This is what I think some people are crazy for wanting to charge over $1000 labor. If they were PROFESSIONAL builders, such as working for Jackson or ESP in a custom shop, SURE then thats reasonable, but someone who build 2-3 guitars in their lifetime, should not be charging over $1000 for CONSTRUCTION alone. Sorry to be a jerk about it, but some people think if pro luthiers charge $6000 for a guitar, with their 30 years experiance, someone who just started and built 2 guitars should be able to charge $6000 also. I would of liked to make a deal with Jeremy, back when I didnt have all the parts, but unfortunately he was too busy at the time and told me custom orders were not being taken, so I bought all the parts now for a smaller builder to make the cost cheaper so too late now, i dont have the $2000 anymore to spend. Edited July 13, 2006 by NickCormier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) thegarehanman, unclej and other builders I talked to Edited July 13, 2006 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 $3000 and 18-24 months wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 If someone can even do the inlay work, that would be Great! The Ibanez Vine inlays can be bought off ebay for like $50, its just the first fret needs to be modified (and with filling, dont think it'll look good, so might have to cut off the first fret that way.) So, if Anyone can help me with this, It would be very apprieciated. thegarehanman told me the average labor cost shouldnt be over like $300 for a body, so add the wood (shouldnt be too much, $100 or so?) finish ($100 or so) and if I dont supply the fretboard, and have that made.. That is around the area I am looking to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCormier Posted July 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I heard great things from hobbyist builders, and its way more cost efficient because they are still great guitars, but not jerks enough to put the price up over $5000. If I wanted a $5000 guitar, why would I look for someone on here? Jackson Customshop is probably the best custom shop in the world, and they STILL charge less or around what you guys are saying here. No offense to Jeremy, I heard great stuff about his work, but theres no one who can compete with Jackson (except ESP, for twice the price) And thats just a well-known fact. Forget about it then, I have the nice people of project guitar forums on PM, I'll just talk to them, Everyone else just wants to make a profit by ripping someone off with their inexperianced guitar building, but since they think they can build "good" guitars, they wanna charge way more than its worth. Honestly, I do understand what it takes to build a guitar, Almost every aspect, and after material costs, which I have all covered except wood, it is not difficult at all for a NON-carved top, simple wiring system, simple paintjob and neckthru construction. Just make sure the scale is correct, make sure the routes are clean and its done. I would even attempt it myself if I had the tools, and if someone is gonna charge me $3000 for labor costs, then I rather attempt it myself. I would have 5 out of 6 guitars just as good as ONE I would get for $3000, because im saving all that money they use for major profit. Thanks for replying in such a bad manner to someone simply looking for help. I hope you are all proud of yourselves. Next time maybe I should mention HOBBYIST BUILDERS, NOT "PROFESSIONALS" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 One of the great things about capitalism is that you, as a customer, can determine what a product is worth. The other great thing about capitalism is that a businessperson doesn't have to meet your price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCormier Posted July 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 If someone can even do the inlay work, that would be Great! The Ibanez Vine inlays can be bought off ebay for like $50, its just the first fret needs to be modified (and with filling, dont think it'll look good, so might have to cut off the first fret that way.) So, if Anyone can help me with this, It would be very apprieciated. thegarehanman told me the average labor cost shouldnt be over like $300 for a body, so add the wood (shouldnt be too much, $100 or so?) finish ($100 or so) and if I dont supply the fretboard, and have that made.. That is around the area I am looking to pay. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you've seriously underestimated here. Any decent inlay artist will charge you at least $60/hour... that vine is probably a good 30-40 hour job. And $100 won't cover your finishing costs. More like $300 and up. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I heard great things from hobbyist builders, and its way more cost efficient because they are still great guitars, but not jerks enough to put the price up over $5000. Forget about it then, I have the nice people of project guitar forums on PM, I'll just talk to them, Everyone else just wants to make a profit by ripping someone off with their inexperianced guitar building, but since they think they can build "good" guitars, they wanna charge way more than its worth. Thanks for replying in such a bad manner to someone simply looking for help. I hope you are all proud of yourselves. Next time maybe I should mention HOBBYIST BUILDERS, NOT "PROFESSIONALS" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 NickCormier, I think you might be setting yourself up for a possible bending over. Once upon a time there was someone who wanted a neck built and a "hobbyist" offered to do it. Money changed hands, but the product never materialized. I won't go further into it, but you wouldn't have to look too hard to find what I'm talking about. My point is, you almost always get what you pay for. Sometimes less. A lot less. If you want this project built right, pick a builder and negotiate the price and stop criticizing people who tell you the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Well, from Custominlay.com, I already have the fretboard talked about, and they are pricing me around $150, Radiused and slotted, inlays in and all. So, That is not a correct assessment. I also mentioned in my first post, I will most likely have the fretboard already, its just that if someone could do it all in one, for a reasonable cost (Hobbyist cost, not "professional" cost) Then that could be an option. So, stain costs like $10, lacquer costs around $10 also. You put it on, let it dry, put it on again. Its not rocket science. if its over $100 for finishing costs, I will do it myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth guitars Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I will second that Mike...45 minutes for each sand and coat...3-4 hours to flat sand and 3-4 hours to buff. That's about 20 hours for lacquer and 14 for cat poly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I will second that Mike...45 minutes for each sand and coat...3-4 hours to flat sand and 3-4 hours to buff. That's about 20 hours for lacquer and 14 for cat poly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsnap Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Nick, The one thing that is being overlooked here is the most important element ...TIME. Most of us "hobbiests" do this because we like to. We have regular jobs. I do work for friends on their guitars, but it is always on MY schedule. If they want it now, take it to a guitar shop (amp/drum/whatever shop). I make a VERY good living in my choosen profession and as such my free time is more valuable than the time I set aside (daily) for work. When you hire a luthier, you are paying for his TIME as well as his SKILL. He has to schedule you in and is obligated to meet the agreed upon terms. We save alot of money doing our own work, we have fun, but we do it at our own pace. We often redo things we are not happy with and learn from our mistakes. If you are willing to abide by these terms then maybe someone here will help you. I must say though, comming onto this form and insulting it's members is not a very good negotiating position. PM me and I will do my best to help you out, but no promises...Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Nobody worth their talents will touch your project without making their standard profit structure, unless you're their friend and they're doing you a special favor. I also am a professional estimator and see nothing wrong with the advice given to you so far, except that you want someone to basically do it for no or -very little- profit, and the only people you'll find to do that are hobbyists trying to make a name for themselves or just extra cash. There's no reason to bash either Nick or the Pro builders here, it's just a matter of it not being a good match between those two entities, Nick needs to look in other areas to find the right match for his needs. It's no big deal, but also it's no good match. And it is very true that you get what you pay for. And Nick, do you really think that any decent luthier could pay his mortgage, utilities, groceries, and send his kids to school on what you're willing to pay them? Sounds to me like all you're offering up is what we call 'beer money'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Another thing to keep in mind is what a 'custom shop' guitar is --it's much different from a custom-made guitar. I don't know the exact setup at Jackson, but in any event, they're set up to reproduce the same models --being fully jigged up cuts down a huge amount in labor right there. Seems to me that 'custom shop' really means 'marketing tool' --sure, the guitars may get slightly more individual attention, but seems to me they're not all that much different from the normal production guitars. Certainly not worth 3X the price. Same goes for your inlay guy --everything he's making, he's made 100 times before. And from what I've read (don't know about this specific guy), he's likely using cheap or artificial inlay materials to boot. Now, you're asking someone to build a completely custom guitar entirely from scratch with no existing templates, no jigs, etc? I recognize that you've got a dream in your head about this guitar, but I'd like to politely suggest that you're going about this the wrong way --definitely you're opening up yourself to some heartbreak, if the 'hobbyist' you choose is unable to turn out the type of product you're hoping for. Now, it seems to me that there's nothing really all that 'custom' about your guitar design, other than the inlay on the fretboard (which I personally hate)...seems to me that I've seen that body before, that headstock too. So if you're able to live with slightly less than the exact inlay you want, why not just hunt down the body and neck and put the guitar together yourself? Tell you another thing --I have tons of respect for the guys here who are able to build quality guitars, hobbyist or pro. Given my own struggles at doing this, some of these guys have put in some real effort to get where they are today. Your way, in their eyes, must seem like cheap shortcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I also am a professional estimator Pray tell, what type? Castle construction? Kitty disposal systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 If you have an offer from Russ to build you a neck-thru custom for $300 labor. You best stop asking if anyone else will do it for that much or less and take his offer. Russ has not built a lot of guitars, but will probably do about as good a job as you will get from anyone especially for $300. I think he is a stand up guy and doubt you find a better bet in terms finishing the job. If you have Russ do the job you should be mindful that he is only charging you a tiny amount, and that he is taking a huge risk even dealing with you. A slip of a tool or mishap and he could wind up paying more for materials than you pay him for the build. You really can't understand the costs(overhead) associated with building a decent guitar (even for a hobbiest) and the actual amout of time it takes. At $300 you are paying sub minimum wage if you actually pay any wage by the time all overhead factors are accounted for. I seriously doubt this topic is going to get you anywhere. As you mentioned you have your builder lined up. I doubt you will get another taker at your price unless they are a total rookie that may or may not be able to finish the job. Peace,Rich P.S. Russ, Good luck with this one if you are actually take it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Whoa, big misunderstanding there. I was giving him estimates to shoot for on costs when asking no names to get to build the guitar. I'm personally not interested. I have no desire to build guitars that are completely opposite from my own tastes in guitars. I also really dislike being constrained to very exacting details. I like some room to allow my creativity to breath. And for the record, my costs at the moment encompass little more than cost of materials and beer money, but that's about right at this point. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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