unclej Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 i had a customer come in today with a squire that had a piece broken off of the trem block..it was where the whammy bar screws in so he wanted to replace it. i got out my allparts catalog and damned near choked when i saw that they actually offer a titanium block for the bargain price of $330.00. first let me say that i'm a huge fan of allparts. i recommend them all the time so this is in no way aimed at them. but what the hell could a titanium block do to the sound of a guitar that could possibly make it worth that much money? anyone ever owned one or played a guitar that had one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 One word ....Marketing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 "but what the hell could a titanium block do to the sound of a guitar that could possibly make it worth that much money?" If you don't know what a Titanium block would do to the sound of a guitar. Then you are not worthy If you have to ask HOW MUCH than you probably can't afford it. You could try a little test. Spray paint two blocks black. Tell yourself 100,000 times one is Titanium, and one is Aluminum. Then listen close you may just hear a difference. Well of course that only works with the properly matched springs(paint them black also). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP63 Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Second word: Nothing. Third, fourth and fifth words: Sellers vacation home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 but what the hell could a titanium block do to the sound of a guitar that could possibly make it worth that much money? Well, now we know for sure that you're not Eric Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 -everyone- knows eric johnson only uses vintage correct Fender original trem blocks. Other wise it doesn't even sound like a strat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 -everyone- knows eric johnson only uses vintage correct Fender original trem blocks. Other wise it doesn't even sound like a strat Yeah, but he can hear the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 but what the hell could a titanium block do to the sound of a guitar that could possibly make it worth that much money? anyone ever owned one or played a guitar that had one? I would think you'd want something with more mass than Titanium to get good sustain. GBT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted August 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 but what the hell could a titanium block do to the sound of a guitar that could possibly make it worth that much money? Well, now we know for sure that you're not Eric Johnson. hell, everyone that was in my band could have told you that. and if you guys were planning on taking up a collection to get me something for christmas..a titanium trem block wasn't on my list..at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 And I thought a $350 piezo system for mandolin was pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirapop Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 From the horse's mouth. I have used the cold rolled steel blocks by Bill Callaham for a few years find them to be of the highest quality. But after I developed the Titanium Trem Block, and put it in my guitar, I would never go back. The tonality, touch sensitivity, clarity, sustain and definition are all greatly enhanced. When you plug in to your tuner it really “sees” the difference as well. To me, the titanium block and saddles are one of the greatest evolutions to ever happen to the Strat. It makes you feel sorry for all those chumps who've spent large on vintage Strats... with their lifeless, bland, clumsy, non-titanium trem blocks and saddles. There have been threads on PG before about tone Nazi's. I remember one mentioning Strat trem blocks being the holy grail of tone. People swear by Callaham trem blocks. Certainly much nicer than what Leo put on his factory guitars. Glendale Guitars will sell you Tele barrel saddles in your choice of Brass, Stainless Steel, Heat Treated Steel, Titanium, and Aluminum. Each one is supposed to have a unique sound. They also sell bridge plates in magnetic and non-magnetic steel, both are said to improve the sound over the factory bridge. For all these things, the different materials have different properties: density, modulus (stiffness), damping coefficient, electro-magnetic response. There might be enough difference that you could actually notice. It might even be an improvement. I don't know. If I was going to spend $330 on a trem block, I'd make sure that I could hear the difference and that I liked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 It makes you feel sorry for all those chumps who've spent large on vintage Strats... with their lifeless, bland, clumsy, non-titanium trem blocks and saddles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraut Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 but what the hell could a titanium block do to the sound of a guitar that could possibly make it worth that much money? anyone ever owned one or played a guitar that had one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike1956 Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 i had a customer come in today with a squire that had a piece broken off of the trem block..it was where the whammy bar screws in so he wanted to replace it. i got out my allparts catalog and damned near choked when i saw that they actually offer a titanium block for the bargain price of $330.00. first let me say that i'm a huge fan of allparts. i recommend them all the time so this is in no way aimed at them. but what the hell could a titanium block do to the sound of a guitar that could possibly make it worth that much money? anyone ever owned one or played a guitar that had one? I can tell you why its more expensive, Titanium is very difficult to machine. It is a rare metal. It is very expensive to cast or forge due to its strength. It has the highest strength of existing metals. In the case of this trem block, the quantities they order might be so low that they have to machine from solid stock, casting would be cheaper but only in large quantities. If you were to go to a machine shop I'm sure the price would be even higher. Cost of the raw material, carbide cutters, machine time. Years ago I machined 2 parts for the military that went to some helicopter. They wanted this part made out of two different materials, 1 being titanium and the other Inconel ... both considered exotic metals at the time (20 years ago). The 6" diameter thin rings were a toolmakers nightmare as we couldn't keep them flat. We ended up jig grinding them to size with a spray mist after several stress relieve heat treatments. Thankfully I moved onto engineering and will never have to work with that material again. Oh well, my 2 cents Spike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Rosenberger Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Clicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Clicky I like this quote: I have been fortunate to have grown up with the great instruments of the 20th century at my disposal. From Lloyd Loar Mandolins, Pre-war Martins and Gibson instruments to 50's Gibson Les Pauls and Fender Strats and Teles. It is from those great instruments that we establish our base line for tone. Weren't those guitars all made with cheap metal parts? Kind of shoots himself in the foot with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. pierce Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 We call it wank factor here. Titanium is for Aircraft, Race Cars and Dirt Bikes. People should stop wasting this stuff of guitar parts and steak knives . I doub't that anyone who didn't know what it was made out of would hear the difference. I can certainly here the difference between a titanium and steel steak knife, thank you very much. You're ears must just be damaged from years of listening to inferior kitchen utensils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirapop Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 I can tell you why its more expensive, Titanium is very difficult to machine. It is a rare metal. It is very expensive to cast or forge due to its strength. It has the highest strength of existing metals. In the case of this trem block, the quantities they order might be so low that they have to machine from solid stock, casting would be cheaper but only in large quantities. If you were to go to a machine shop I'm sure the price would be even higher. Cost of the raw material, carbide cutters, machine time. Years ago I machined 2 parts for the military that went to some helicopter. They wanted this part made out of two different materials, 1 being titanium and the other Inconel ... both considered exotic metals at the time (20 years ago). The 6" diameter thin rings were a toolmakers nightmare as we couldn't keep them flat. We ended up jig grinding them to size with a spray mist after several stress relieve heat treatments. Thankfully I moved onto engineering and will never have to work with that material again. Oh well, my 2 cents Spike Hey Spike, Titanium's gotten much less rare, following the fall of the Soviet Union. The Russian titanium spigot is wide open. Titanium is turning up in lots of places: golf clubs, wedding rings, production motorcycle exhausts, bicycles, and trem blocks/barrel saddles. There used to be only a couple Ti bicycle makers. Now there are so many, there are even generic Ti bikes. Titanium is a bear to machine. It's gummy, generates a lot of heat, and wears out cutters. Casting isn't too bad for non structural titanium. Oxygen is bad for strength in molten titanium, but, for golf clubs and trem blocks strength isn't much of an issue. Ti is stronger than aluminum and less dense than steel. It isn't as strong as higher strength steels, nickel alloys (like Inconel), and some more exotic alloys. In aerospace, we start with aluminum. If we need more strength we go to titanium. If that doesn't work, it turns to steel. That's for parts with concentrated loadings. When the loads are distributed, it's aluminum, then carbon fiber... then maybe metal/carbon fiber hybrids like GLARE or Ti/GR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 I can see it coming: - the Inconel tremolo arm for the unsurpassed tone transfer to your knuckles - the Glare pick guard screws for transfer of vibrations to the pickups - the Ti/GR tuner for tuners that tune themself Remember were you saw it first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraut Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Thankfully I moved onto engineering and will never have to work with that material again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightLamp Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 (edited) Thankfully I moved onto engineering and will never have to work with that material again. What sort of engineering never uses titanium or inconel? Electrical Edited August 5, 2006 by MidnightLamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraut Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Thankfully I moved onto engineering and will never have to work with that material again. What sort of engineering never uses titanium or inconel? Electrical Fair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 - the Ti/GR tuner for tuners that tune themself That would be pretty sweet I was thinking somone should make some carbonfiber tuners. If nothing else it would look really really cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike1956 Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Thankfully I moved onto engineering and will never have to work with that material again. What sort of engineering never uses titanium or inconel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirapop Posted August 8, 2006 Report Share Posted August 8, 2006 I was thinking somone should make some carbonfiber tuners. If nothing else it would look really really cool I used to like the look of carbon fiber, until it turned up on "veneer" like trim pieces and then on carbon look contact paper. What would look really great on hardware is mokume gane or Damascus steel. You can simulate it with polymer clay, if you don't feel like forging or metalsmithing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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