Prostheta Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Arrrgh...you said "manky". </slap> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I've gotten pretty good at repairing tearouts --what works really well for me is to stop routing right away and find the piece of tearout. Then I use wood glue to glue it back into place, make sure I clean the glue around it, and when that's dry I pass the router over it again --because the glue swells the wood a bit, by the time it's done, you can barely see anything....if you look really close, you can see a hint of a line. Over here, template bits cost 50 euros, so I don't replace mine all that often (although I've since started buying them from Stewmac). On the other hand, I've been learning how to 'feel' the direction of the grain, and how to avoid tearouts --it's hard to explain, but basically you never want to present a long piece of grain to the bit, so I'll route backwards (a tip I picked up from Drak a long while back) into the grain a bit to shorten it before moving forward again. Especially helpful around narrow tight horns. Sharpening a template bit doesn't make much sense, because the bit will no longer be the same size as the bearing? I suppose you could sharpen it once though. Actually, this works out as an advantage for the neck pocket, I've found -because the routed pocket ends up being a fraction of a millimeter narrower than the neck, making for an extremely snug fit. fook--may I call you fook? -- if my guitar looked half as nice as yours, I'd be pleased. Still, that black patch on the horn....think of problems like these as opportunities --for example, what I'd do with that spot (if I had the skills), would be to add some kind of personalized inlay. Nothing too extravagant, or too visible. Just enough to eliminate the mark and make it a 'feature'... Well, it's probably too late for that, since the guitar has probably been buffed and polished by now. Sorry I didn't notice the thread a few weeks back. Oh, about that sustain block --is that your own idea, or are there other non-trem guitars using that? I was thinking of doing something similar with a tele. I'm wondering if it really has an effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 (edited) I had my own little lesson in tear-out last night: (Second pic is back view, before I attacked it with the router.) Eek... I'm thinking about cutting out the damaged area and inlaying a 2" wide flamed maple stripe parallel to the neck, and pretending like I designed it that way. And I'm buying a Robo-sander before I work with mahogany again. First post, btw... hi everyone! Edited December 12, 2006 by Rick500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Ugh, what a painful way to introduce yourself to the boards, Rick Good luck with that problem, man. And look at that body, fookgub! That's DAMN sexy And looks like it came together quite nicely! My only personal preferences might be to stain the headstock the same color as the body, or throw a mahogany veneer on it. I understand wanting to recycle a good neck, but I just like things to flow together nicely. Well, actually, I just looked at the pictures again, and the headstock isn't all that bad. I'd still strip it and stain it, but it's all about how you want it. Congrats on getting such a beautiful finish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desopolis Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 EEK at that tearout... I used a new freud bit when doing mine and came out perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 I had my own little lesson in tear-out last night: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/rick...rat_tearout.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/rick...t_rough_cut.jpg (Second pic is back view, before I attacked it with the router.) Eek... I'm thinking about cutting out the damaged area and inlaying a 2" wide flamed maple stripe parallel to the neck, and pretending like I designed it that way. And I'm buying a Robo-sander before I work with mahogany again. First post, btw... hi everyone! How much was you taking at a time using the template bit? I bandsaw my bodies to within 5mm and even then take about only about 5-10mm depth each router pass to be safe. Was that area weakened in some way? That's some hell mighty tearout... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIRS Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Wow. Good luck with fixing that one. I dont use routers to work on rounding or shaping my work, I do it all with a sander and the finishing with lots of elbow grease. Back on topic.. That body looks quite beautiful with that coat on it, I really like the stripes. The epoxy may have darkened because of it all being in one spot, so it built up and darkend. That happened to me when I was coating a fretless bass neck, one section had a little tearout and it is somewhat darker than the rest. Anyway, I can't wait to see this beauty finished, keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 How much was you taking at a time using the template bit? I bandsaw my bodies to within 5mm and even then take about only about 5-10mm depth each router pass to be safe. Was that area weakened in some way? That's some hell mighty tearout... I'll second that, I take 4-5 passes at the line / body curve and I've never had tear-out that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted December 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 (edited) I've gotten pretty good at repairing tearouts --what works really well for me is to stop routing right away and find the piece of tearout. I tried to do that, but I was working outside on my back porch. I looked, but the piece was long gone. Oh, about that sustain block --is that your own idea, or are there other non-trem guitars using that? I was thinking of doing something similar with a tele. I'm wondering if it really has an effect? Couldn't tell you yet if it has an effect or not. My guess is that it will be pretty minimal. I didn't really do this in the quest for tone. The story goes like this: I owned an Ibanez RG520 for a number of years and it was my favorite guitar, except for the Floyd. I finally got exacerbated with the trem last year and swapped out the entire body for a hardtail RG body from eBay. For a number of reasons this was unsatisfactory... one was that it was too light. I missed the "junk in the trunk" feel of having that heavy trem unit. So, the brass sustain block was mostly to recapture that feel... it's about weight more than anything. Anyway, Godin LGs have a similar string retaining type thing, but I don't think it's a big block. Alembic uses brass blocks under the bridge of some of their basses, but I don't think the strings go through it. So I can't say it's my idea, but I've never seen anyone do quite the same thing. By the way, the body from my old 520 has been pressed back into service... it's going to be a seven string now. PS: Thanks to everyone for the nice comments about the finish! I'll post some pictures when it's all buffed out and strung up. Should be in early January. Edited December 13, 2006 by fookgub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Sorry to thread hijack, by the way...wasn't my intention. I saw fookgub's tear-out and figured I could make him feel better by posting mine. I will use a Robo-sander next time. I used a relatively new Whiteside bit and was taking off maybe 1/16". Anyway, nice job, fookgub; that mahogany is really beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted December 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Sorry to thread hijack, by the way...wasn't my intention. I saw fookgub's tear-out and figured I could make him feel better by posting mine. No worries at all man. I hope your project rebounds... that's some pretty bad tearout. It looks like you might have been trying to take too much wood off in one pass, but wood can do funny stuff. For amateurs like me (and, I assume, you... but don't take offense if I'm wrong), a robosander seems like a safer bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 How much was you taking at a time using the template bit? I bandsaw my bodies to within 5mm and even then take about only about 5-10mm depth each router pass to be safe. Was that area weakened in some way? That's some hell mighty tearout... I went back through to the start of this thread and realised I replied to it ages ago when it was new! In that time I've learned to trust my routers and template followers much more than "soft" tools like spindle sanders which are a pain to produce anything but curves on :-D How time flies (like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 I went back through to the start of this thread and realised I replied to it ages ago when it was new! In that time I've learned to trust my routers and template followers much more than "soft" tools like spindle sanders which are a pain to produce anything but curves on :-D How time flies (like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana etc.) You could use a fence on the spindle sander to get straight lines! Looks like I forgot to comment on the build. Beautiful ribbon grain Mahogany, it looks stunning with the finish on it. I wonder what that kind of Mahogany would look like stained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick500 Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 No worries at all man. I hope your project rebounds... that's some pretty bad tearout. It looks like you might have been trying to take too much wood off in one pass, but wood can do funny stuff. For amateurs like me (and, I assume, you... but don't take offense if I'm wrong), a robosander seems like a safer bet. Yeah, I wear the amateur badge proudly. Body fixed, lesson learned. I ended up just taking off about a quarter inch and hand-sanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Well, so much for finishing this guitar in early January. The finish was too thin, and I sanded through in a bunch of places. I'm recoating it now. Last time I used ReRanch rattlecan clear. That was my first, and possibly last, experience clearing with rattlecans. Now I've got a spray gun, and the clear is building much faster. I should be done with the clear coats by friday, then the guitar is getting hung up for drying for another month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahilltrade Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 bummer. yeah im done with rattle cans aswell cheap but not effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted January 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 bummer. yeah im done with rattle cans aswell cheap but not effective. Not that cheap, really. I paid about $50 for three cans. For the same amount of money I got a quart of nitro lacquer, a quart of thinner, and a gun. Granted the gun is cheap, but I wanted something cheap to learn on and it still works quite a bit better than spray cans. The only big expense in a spray setup is the compressor, and I already had one. Even if you have to buy a compressor, it's cheaper in the end. I figure you need about 6 cans to do a good job. By the time you do three guitars, you could have bought a setup like mine. After that the savings just pile up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Fookgub, can you do me a favour and convince my wife of that one? My power of lure and persuasion seem to have no effect :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted February 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I should be done with the clear coats by friday [January 5th] haha... not even close! The bad weather down here really screwed me up, but I'm happy to announce that I'm finally done with the clearcoats. I've put 13 new coats on over the last month or so. I'm going to let it cure for a month, so I'll be looking to buff and assemble around the middle of March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 I should be done with the clear coats by friday [January 5th] haha... not even close! The bad weather down here really screwed me up, but I'm happy to announce that I'm finally done with the clearcoats. I've put 13 new coats on over the last month or so. I'm going to let it cure for a month, so I'll be looking to buff and assemble around the middle of March. why let it cure for a month? 2 weeks should be plenty enough time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 why let it cure for a month? 2 weeks should be plenty enough time... Well, I hear different things from different people. Since it's taken about a month already to do the finish, two weeks is probably safe. But on the other hand, I really don't want to make a mistake that will delay the project even further. Sanding through the first time cost me two months, so I'd rather be safe than sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) It really depends on WHAT kind of nitro you're using. If you're using aerosol cans... I still think the finish is pretty uncured after 1 month personally... however that's about the edges of my abilities to wait, so I go with the 1 month rule usually. This is because aerosol cans' nitro is packed with so many thinners and other stuff to allow it to flow, that it takes a much longer time to cure (not to mention goes on alot thinner). Versus, if you're spraying with a gun, the nitro isn't as diluted, etc. etc. and 2 weeks should be fine (as show-cased by Bob Benedetto). All nitro is not created equal. Make sense? Chris PS: Go watch on youtube the "how it's made" on godin electric guitars.... pretty sure even they... a mass manufacturer let their paint cure for a month! In a special heated-ish room to help cure to boot! Edited February 14, 2007 by verhoevenc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Buffed out the finish today. Assembly tomorrow. Should be finished tomorrow night, then I'll have pictures as soon at the weather clears up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeranya Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 that's amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Nice! I'm a sucker for natural finished mahogany... re: tearout and routing - thing that works best (in addition to using a nice, sharp bit, good quality, well-tuned, in a router that's powerful enough, and always routing downhill the first time around, from wide parts of the body to narrow, ideally with template bit in one direction, and a flush trim bit in the other, so you never have to climb-cut) for me is: use a RoboSander first. Don't try to go as close to the template as possible, just get really, really close (half a mm left), and then route. Routing gives me a smoother surface than drum sanding (don't have a spindle sander), and it works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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