DFW Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 So here's the plan. 4 string unfretted bass, single cut ala Fodera Imperial, cutaway for three octave neck ala Hyperbass, plus the fingerboard goes the whole scale length for what I call infinite notalogy. Then there's a Kahler for some bendy fun, and I'm stickin 4 Hipshots up top, also ala Hyperbass. And there's gonna be a pretty aggressive fingerboard radius for using a bow, maybe more so than in the rendering. If they'll let me do neck thru that's the plan, if not it's gonna be set neck. Any suggestions/comments/revisions? Anything is appreciated. http://www.flickr.com/photos/48204020@N00/...57594445337600/ Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Kahler tremolo system? Hipshot detuners or ultralites? Unique looking build, but I'd go crazy playing something like that sitting down. Even standing up, the arm rest area looks like it'd be uncomfortable. I was originally going to do a very similar fingerboard on my neck-thru, but I gave up on the project. How will you do the pickup? Just place it beneath a part of the fingerboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFW Posted December 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Oh yea, it'll be a PUTW piezo under the bridge, and perhaps one elswhere as well, maybe up near the top horn/first octave. Detuners, yes. And as to the comfort quotient, I've already built a guitar with the same lower bouts and it's so far caused no problems. I might have to make it a bit softer though, good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Opinions?? Ok, you asked... Looks like you're trying to add every outlandish feature in the one instrument to gain attention, with no thought to how its all going to work together. The design is really, REALLY, ugly... too much of a mismatch with lines and curves. Where are the pickups going to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Opinions?? Ok, you asked... Where are the pickups going to go? You should really try reading all his posts...... I think its a cool design, It has a Double Bass feel to it, but then again I like something more than your run of the mill Jem Jackson Tele and Strat ripoffs. If you use the piezo under the saddles and one in the horn that would be a first I've heard of that being done. Should have a great range of acoustic sound that way. You should chamber the horn! On the body I would smooth off the lower horn where it meets the neck just to make it flow a little better. I think you can round this area out and still keep enough cut-away to access the third octive. Oh and to keep with the double bass theme you really need to put a deep scroll into the lower horn. Or redesign the headstock with one, that would be pretty neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Ain't piezo pick ups suppose to be in contact with the strings to translate the sound? Me like Perry don't like the design, but like everything "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". The idea of the radical radius for using a bow won't work too much on this one, your design will not allow you to use a bow past the upper horn on the low strings! As of Peerys question about the pups, if you look at the time of posting between his and Perrys you can see that they were both writting about the same time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Ain't piezo pick ups suppose to be in contact with the strings to translate the sound? Not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 How do they work??? are they magnetic or mecanic? All the guitars that I haved played with piezo are the one that have them on the saddles!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 So here's the plan. 4 string unfretted bass, single cut ala Fodera Imperial, cutaway for three octave neck ala Hyperbass, plus the fingerboard goes the whole scale length for what I call infinite notalogy. Then there's a Kahler for some bendy fun, and I'm stickin 4 Hipshots up top, also ala Hyperbass. And there's gonna be a pretty aggressive fingerboard radius for using a bow, maybe more so than in the rendering. If they'll let me do neck thru that's the plan, if not it's gonna be set neck. Any suggestions/comments/revisions? Anything is appreciated. http://www.flickr.com/photos/48204020@N00/...57594445337600/ Thanks in advance. are you at roberto-venn currently? or planning to go? i was in the spring 06 class... anyways, about your design... it doesn't look like it would be very comfortable to play sitting down, one thing you could do if you haven't already considered it is what i did on the back of my 2 pointy guitars... heres a pic of it it also doesn't look like it would balance really well sitting, but if its mainly meant to be played standing up i'm sure it would balance quite optimally... on the radiusing the fingerboard for a bow, how do you plan on achieving that? i know that roberto-venn's radius blocks are pretty limited, so the only option you'd really have would be to do it on the belt sander, and hand sand it to final sanding... and the belt sanders there definately aren't long enough for that ginormous fretboard you've put in the pic, not to mention, good luck getting a fingerboard that long from reuter, i doubt he has one like that. and can the bridge be adjusted to compensate for a small radius? all these are things you have to think about. and they will let you do neck through, 2 of my 4 guitars were neck through, but you have to figure it all out basically on your own, which i think this forum is an excellent resource, if you look around, and see what everyone else has done themselves... i know this forum has given me plenty of ideas. i'm going to assume you aren't there yet, its not a bad idea to plan for your 3rd before you go, but you have to do fairly well to even get to do a 3rd, there were some people who didn't get to. you have to maintain a certain average, and show the instructors you can handle doing it, while still getting your other work done. hell i was building my 4th during the repair course, talk about juggling, doing the 3rd while still working on my 1st and and acoustic wasn't so bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheIRS Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Personally, if it were me, I'd put the fretboard of an Upright Double Bass on there to begin with, which will save you the insane amount of sanding to get that radius. I'd also change your design to have the fretboard and bridge be higher off of the body, to give some room for bowing. When I say higher, I mean have them literally raised on top of the body. Just a thought, good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 I like the design. I agree with Perry somewhat, that it looks like you may be trying to incorporate a little too many different features of different instruments, but, hey, the outcome is pretty original, I think. The upper bouts remind me of a harp. I like that. I like the cutaway-horn-thing... but might it be a bit fragile, vulnerable? What program did you use to create that drawing? I like that too... Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 How do they work??? are they magnetic or mecanic? All the guitars that I haved played with piezo are the one that have them on the saddles!!! They dont contact the string at all. They translate vibration via conductors and chrystals, they have many purposes, they even use them for drum tiggers. There are no magnetics involved. You can put them in a saddle like a parker, under a wooden bridge like on an acoustic guitar, on the underside of a sound board in a horn ect.. For the most part under the saddle or bridge would probably be the optimum spot for the pup on a guitar for high and mid freq purposes. This is not so important on a bass you can mount them anywhere the vibration is and get sound. You have to use an active preamp with them so its no big deal to boost the signal to make up for volume differences wherever you mount it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 I think the concept is very cool. However, I do feel you've added to much of a medley of pointy and curvy. Chose one and go with it. IE: round out those points, or make the curve areas sharper. I'd personally go with rounding out the points. This reminds me alot of the Pagelli bass with the HUGE cut-away for mad upper register use. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFW Posted December 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 are you at roberto-venn currently? or planning to go? i was in the spring 06 class... on the radiusing the fingerboard for a bow, how do you plan on achieving that? and can the bridge be adjusted to compensate for a small radius? I'm in the Spring '07 Class. With the radiusing, I did it before on my first bass found here: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...mp;#entry269802 I did it with a hand plane, patience, and a large piece of wood. Started off at an inch thick, and wasn't perfect, but I know most of my mistakes. Given a suitable working environment I could likely fix them. Good point about the Kahler fitting, I guess I didn't think about that. Well, I'll nix the trem most likely, or nix the radiusing. Personally, if it were me, I'd put the fretboard of an Upright Double Bass on there to begin with, which will save you the insane amount of sanding to get that radius. I'd also change your design to have the fretboard and bridge be higher off of the body, to give some room for bowing. When I say higher, I mean have them literally raised on top of the body. Just a thought, good luck with it. I did that with my last bass, had a really steep neck angle and a 3 inch tall bridge modeled slightly after an upright bass bridge. it was a lot of work so I was trying to find a middle ground. I like that. I like the cutaway-horn-thing... but might it be a bit fragile, vulnerable? What program did you use to create that drawing? I like that too... Good luck. I'll probably beef up the horn a bit in reality, I just wanted some sort of representation I could discuss with the teachers. I used SketchUp to draw it, which is $49 for a student license, $495 for regular. It's amazing and really easy to use. And to rhoads, the outlandishness of the body is pretty much set in stone, and I personally think it's more tasteful than several original custom guitares I've seen. It is pretty ridiculous, I know, but I'm a ridiculous fellow, and my instrument needs to match me. I'd look more odd playing a black strat than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slabbefusk Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 I think you should make the top horn flow more other than that I think its cool looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Headstock doesn't look large enough for D-tuners. Try to use a CAD-type of program and get sizes for your parts so you can do a proper layout. Forget the trem; trems on a bass are just musically stupid. If you use a radical radius, you'll have to make your own bridge to match that radius. The ability to use a bow will depend on how high off the body the strings are, and how much clearance you have on the edges of the body....not enough of either on the drawing. I don't like the body shape, but in that department your opinion is the only one that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 I'll probably beef up the horn a bit in reality, I just wanted some sort of representation I could discuss with the teachers. I used SketchUp to draw it, which is $49 for a student license, $495 for regular. It's amazing and really easy to use. And to rhoads, the outlandishness of the body is pretty much set in stone, and I personally think it's more tasteful than several original custom guitares I've seen. It is pretty ridiculous, I know, but I'm a ridiculous fellow, and my instrument needs to match me. I'd look more odd playing a black strat than this. you'll wind up doing a full, to scale drawing of it, before you ever discuss it with kris... you also won't even talk about 3rd instruments until about 6 weeks in, when you have your first ready for lacquer... you might also talk a bit with bart, he likes to make pretty crazy basses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 And to rhoads, the outlandishness of the body is pretty much set in stone, and I personally think it's more tasteful than several original custom guitares I've seen. It is pretty ridiculous, I know, but I'm a ridiculous fellow, and my instrument needs to match me. I'd look more odd playing a black strat than this. Then thats all the matter eh. Nothing wrong with being ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFW Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Headstock doesn't look large enough for D-tuners. Try to use a CAD-type of program and get sizes for your parts so you can do a proper layout. Forget the trem; trems on a bass are just musically stupid. Alright, I'll ditch the trem, it's especially senseless on a fretless I'd think. I kinda just wanted to see if I could render it well in SketchUp. I'll redo the render and have it up in a bit you'll wind up doing a full, to scale drawing of it, before you ever discuss it with kris... you also won't even talk about 3rd instruments until about 6 weeks in, when you have your first ready for lacquer... you might also talk a bit with bart, he likes to make pretty crazy basses... Yea, I'm being a bit overzealouos talking about the 3rd guitar so early, but I figure you get so much teaching for the first two instruments, and their structure is so set in stone that their completion is pretty much guaranteed, so long as you're driven. Thanks for the info about Bart, I'll definitely discuss it with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) Headstock doesn't look large enough for D-tuners. Try to use a CAD-type of program and get sizes for your parts so you can do a proper layout. Forget the trem; trems on a bass are just musically stupid. Alright, I'll ditch the trem, it's especially senseless on a fretless I'd think. I kinda just wanted to see if I could render it well in SketchUp. I'll redo the render and have it up in a bit you'll wind up doing a full, to scale drawing of it, before you ever discuss it with kris... you also won't even talk about 3rd instruments until about 6 weeks in, when you have your first ready for lacquer... you might also talk a bit with bart, he likes to make pretty crazy basses... Yea, I'm being a bit overzealouos talking about the 3rd guitar so early, but I figure you get so much teaching for the first two instruments, and their structure is so set in stone that their completion is pretty much guaranteed, so long as you're driven. Thanks for the info about Bart, I'll definitely discuss it with him. you'd be surprised, if you look at my class, there are some who don't have pics of their acoustic, its because they didn't finish them till basically the last day... they had them "finished" enough to have them graded, but then they had issues such as the bridge popping off, or just poorly done in general, so they didn't have them finished enough to take a picture... even i had my bridge pop off, and after i had gotten mine graded, i noticed a spot where i had sanded through my BWB purfling on my top, so i routed all my binding off, redid it, and even added a BWB purfling on the back, but i still got mine done in time, and got 3 electrics done, as well as many extra things in the repair course... its all about how you manage time. a bunch of people started 3rd's, but never finished them... but you do have a prior build, as i saw in another thread of yours, so you might have a leg up, but you're probably going to find that a lot of how you have done things is very different from how R-V do things... a guy who is a staff member there now, but was in my class, jason kostal, found that out, basically all the way through, he had already built some 30 acoustics, pretty much knew what he was doing, so he was constantly annoyed at having to do things the roberto-venn way. Edited December 30, 2006 by ElysianGuitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_ado Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 hey this looks pretty cool i think u should add in an f-hole or two like different sizes that would really give it an abstract double bass feel it would also takes some weight off it cuz that thing looks kinda heavy OR....instead of f-holes put in a few bass clef holes they look sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFW Posted December 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 its all about how you manage time. a bunch of people started 3rd's, but never finished them... but you do have a prior build, as i saw in another thread of yours, so you might have a leg up, but you're probably going to find that a lot of how you have done things is very different from how R-V do things... I heard they're pretty strict about doing it the standard/RV way, so I'm going to do both required guitars exactly as they ask and give no fuss to prove competence in that area to them and myself, and give me reason to go as bonkers aas I can for the third instrument whiloe I have professionals to help me in person i think u should add in an f-hole or two like different sizes that would really give it an abstract double bass feel it would also takes some weight off it cuz that thing looks kinda heavy OR....instead of f-holes put in a few bass clef holes they look sweet! Flippin genius, I'm definitely doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 I think it's nasty, but I like your explanation and "no apologies" attitude. I agree that for basses in general, trems are wonky. But for wonky people I can let it go a bit. But on a fretless? That's where you lose me on the trem idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFW Posted December 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 Alright, redux. Take into account the neck will have a steeper angle to the body, as I realized my folly after getting about 98% of the drawing done and didn't want to deal with the logistics of redrawing the entire neck. The two tone thing and recession are tentative, as are the control/jack placements and f-hole design/placement. Also I'm still working on the tip of the top horn. But here's the general idea so far. http://www.flickr.com/photos/48204020@N00/...57594449415646/ And I'm diggin the polarization of opinions on the body design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manquesa Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 i'm really digging the creativity here. That's one heck of a design you got there, kudos to you for even wanting to attempt something like that. If ever you do get this thing built, please be sure to show it off here when it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.