glimmertwin Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 ...looking to start my first project from scratch(59 LP JR style). Anyway, I want to try and keep it as traditional as possible but when choosing a truss rod, there are so many options it's confusing for a newbie. I know StewMac sells the basic truss rod used in traditional Gibson construction, but it looks a little involved(curved rod channel) and I'm trying to cut down on the margin of error on something that is so critical for my first guitar. It seems like a large margin of error unless you guys think I'm blowing out of proportion the difficulty of the curved portion, anchor carvings, and curved fillet. Anyway, I saw the lmii.com standard welded end single action truss rod and it sounds like a standard ended truss with a spline already attached AND it looks like it's a flat routed channel all for about the same route dimensions as a standard truss rod. I like slightly slimmer necks so I like the idea that I won't be tempting fate by having an easier to install truss rod put into a slimmer neck and possibly having some disaster with the truss coming through the neck. Of course I have never installed ANY truss rod before so maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill - you guys would know better than me. One thing I'm also cautious of is I don't want a super weak headstock design either so I want the truss insert to be minimally carved if at all possible to add even a little more strength. I hate volutes but I don't know of a better way to strengthen the headstock design transparently(I was planning on a one piece neck/headstock). Maybe I can route a small channel at the body end where the neck meets the body and have a set neck adjustable at the body end and the truss rod cover for show on the headstock end? Has anyone ever done this? On a JR the pickguard would cover it up I assume(wanted to use the tortoise shell guards - are those completely opaque?). Anyway, any advice is greatly appreciated. I couldn't find any archived info on these truss rods using the search feature... http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....dard+welded+end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolio49085 Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Les Paul Jr This guy did the same thing with the truss rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Use LMII's dual action rod. Its easier to install, and works in both directions (forward and back bow). I have only needed to add forward bow once when building a guitar, but without the dual action rod, i would have been in a world of trouble. The single action rod is really not what you want as a beginner (damn, even as a pro), so walk away from that idea unless you want the extra work and less payoff. The dual action rod needs a straight channel, and a smaller cutout at the end (headstock or body end, you choose). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVDL Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfoosh Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 ...looking to start my first project from scratch(59 LP JR style). Anyway, I want to try and keep it as traditional as possible but when choosing a truss rod, there are so many options it's confusing for a newbie. I know StewMac sells the basic truss rod used in traditional Gibson construction, but it looks a little involved(curved rod channel) and I'm trying to cut down on the margin of error on something that is so critical for my first guitar. It seems like a large margin of error unless you guys think I'm blowing out of proportion the difficulty of the curved portion, anchor carvings, and curved fillet. Anyway, I saw the lmii.com standard welded end single action truss rod and it sounds like a standard ended truss with a spline already attached AND it looks like it's a flat routed channel all for about the same route dimensions as a standard truss rod. I like slightly slimmer necks so I like the idea that I won't be tempting fate by having an easier to install truss rod put into a slimmer neck and possibly having some disaster with the truss coming through the neck. Of course I have never installed ANY truss rod before so maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill - you guys would know better than me. One thing I'm also cautious of is I don't want a super weak headstock design either so I want the truss insert to be minimally carved if at all possible to add even a little more strength. I hate volutes but I don't know of a better way to strengthen the headstock design transparently(I was planning on a one piece neck/headstock). Maybe I can route a small channel at the body end where the neck meets the body and have a set neck adjustable at the body end and the truss rod cover for show on the headstock end? Has anyone ever done this? On a JR the pickguard would cover it up I assume(wanted to use the tortoise shell guards - are those completely opaque?). Anyway, any advice is greatly appreciated. I couldn't find any archived info on these truss rods using the search feature... http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts....dard+welded+end here's what i've been using for a long time now, they work great http://www.grizzly.com/products/h6031 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 What really helped solved most of the mystery behind this truss rod issue was that I took a cheap neck and removed the fretboard. As soon as you see the innards for yourself, everything becomes very clear. Plus, I had a truss rod to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I don't want a super weak headstock design […] I was planning on a one piece neck/headstock First I agree with the double action trussrod. As easy to install (straight channel) but much better option for a first guitar. I still always use double action. Next I ask you to reconsider the one piece neck/head design if you are afraid that you might nock that head of. I did an angled head with a scarf joint for my very first neck. It wasn’t nearly as hard as I imagined and it still holds together some 12-14 years later. There are a lot of tutorials here about how to make a scarf joint. My favourite is the easy to make and very precise router method with a routing scarf jig. I have a tutorial on my web page: http://www.peternaglitschluthier.com/head_...d_joint_jig.htm If you choose to use the one piece neck there are a few things that will make a stronger head. The method of adding reinforcement Alex mentioned (though I would use graphite rods) is one. Another is the use of head plate and back strapping. Gluing an ebony plate on the face of the guitar is the easiest way. This will add a lot of straight wood fibres along the surface of the head. Adding another on the back will further strengthen the head but it is a bit trickier. Setch has a nice tutorial on back strapping on his web page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 If you choose to use the one piece neck there are a few things that will make a stronger head. The method of adding reinforcement Alex mentioned (though I would use graphite rods) is one. Another is the use of head plate and back strapping. Gluing an ebony plate on the face of the guitar is the easiest way. This will add a lot of straight wood fibres along the surface of the head. Adding another on the back will further strengthen the head but it is a bit trickier. Setch has a nice tutorial on back strapping on his web page. i use volutes for strength there...but a ton of gibsons are one piece and have had no problems.i believe the scarf joint was started as a way to save wood rather than a major strength issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 If you choose to use the one piece neck there are a few things that will make a stronger head. The method of adding reinforcement Alex mentioned (though I would use graphite rods) is one. Another is the use of head plate and back strapping. Gluing an ebony plate on the face of the guitar is the easiest way. This will add a lot of straight wood fibres along the surface of the head. Adding another on the back will further strengthen the head but it is a bit trickier. Setch has a nice tutorial on back strapping on his web page. i use volutes for strength there...but a ton of gibsons are one piece and have had no problems.i believe the scarf joint was started as a way to save wood rather than a major strength issue. Ive fixed three gibsons since xmas, and two the week before. Gibson headstock snaps are one of the bread and butter jobs i do... i almost always have one in the factory being fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 i use volutes for strength there... So true. It adds strength, looks really nice and I have no problems with them. However: I hate volutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AlexVDL Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glimmertwin Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 If you choose to use the one piece neck there are a few things that will make a stronger head. The method of adding reinforcement Alex mentioned (though I would use graphite rods) is one. Another is the use of head plate and back strapping. Gluing an ebony plate on the face of the guitar is the easiest way. This will add a lot of straight wood fibres along the surface of the head. Adding another on the back will further strengthen the head but it is a bit trickier. Setch has a nice tutorial on back strapping on his web page. i use volutes for strength there...but a ton of gibsons are one piece and have had no problems.i believe the scarf joint was started as a way to save wood rather than a major strength issue. Ive fixed three gibsons since xmas, and two the week before. Gibson headstock snaps are one of the bread and butter jobs i do... i almost always have one in the factory being fixed. Yeah Gibson headstocks snap off even if you look at it. The neck/headstock area is very thin, and they route out a lot of wood for the trussrod, so it is really a weak spot. Even with a volute the headstock isn't that strong because the grain still goes straight on. Maple would be much stronger, but mahogany is not strong enough to withstand a good bang on the back of the head. A scarf joint headstock will not break because the grain is parrallel to the headstock's face. Only the scarf joint itself could break easily if the surfaces aren't prepped (perfectly planed) properly. IMO a volute or a trussrod at the tenon is the easiest you can do as a beginner. If you're not good at planing wood, I would not recommend a scarf joint, as this joint should be perfect!! Looking at SwedishLtuhier's jig, it seems like something I could handle. Truth be told a good friend of mine happens to have been passed on her grandfather's 56 single cut Les Paul Special(dual P-90s) from his days playing with Bob Wills(I guess he was one of the "Texas Playboys"). She was talking about bringing it with her next time she was in town in a few months so I was looking to take measurements and try and clone it as best I can. I mind as well get some practice in making good scarf joints now because it looks like I will need it on the next couple of projects.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOAMdude Posted May 4, 2007 Report Share Posted May 4, 2007 hi guys kind of hijacking this dead thread here but i figured i might as well not make a new one. just a few Q's For the Dual Action truss rod Is it just one adjustable end? i don't need two since mine will be neckthru The channel does not bend? does it just go straight? and the last one what would be a good length for a 25.5 scale neck? cheers for the answers! thanks! :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmarlin Posted May 4, 2007 Report Share Posted May 4, 2007 Adjustable at one end, straight channel, and 18". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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