mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 (edited) Hello All, I've been lurking here for a few weeks. I am really quite the newbie when it comes to woodworking and luthiery in general. I am currently working on taking an old mexican fender telecaster and stripping it down and adding a flamed maple veneer and re-finishing it. I thought that this might be a good introduction to this particular genre. A little background on myself. I have a degree in Industrial Design, so i've made a number of models and worked with my hands a fair amount. However, in spite of my desire to do so for a number of years, I have never really found the time to actually focus on building my own guitar. In school I was more focused on completing projects rapidly rather than in learning craftsmanship or doing a particular technique in the 'proper' way. So, working with wood and all the necessary techniques to excel at building guitars are slightly beyond my previous experience. I thought this project of veneering and refinishing my old telecaster would be a good introduction into guitar building. I'm finding that it is far more involved than I ever imagined!!! Anyway, here is a mock-up that I did using Illustrator and Photoshop of a body design that I was thinking of doing for my first 'real' project. I'd love to get some feedback on it from some of the old pro's. I'm thinking a Koa over Mahogany body, perhaps using a Warmoth neck. (At least for my first time out of the box) All the hardware would be black or black chrome, if I can find it. This is where i'm at right now, but a semi-hollow body with some interesting or striking sort of f-hole in the body is not out of the realm of possibility. Again, I am a total newbie to this world and any feedback anyone might have to this design would be much appreciated. Thanks!!! Guitar Design 1 Edited January 31, 2007 by westhemann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 my first critique would be to make your pics public...i can not see them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 my first critique would be to post to the pic,not the login...your pics are locked away.in other words...i can not see them Sorry, apparently since I converted my original file from an illustrator file it was saved in CMYK format rather than RGB and photobucket really really did not like that!!! Fixed now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 ah yes...now i can see it. are you aware that is very much like those one-off tele designs on spaltguitars.com? i can't really give much of an opinion on this design...because i have a severe dislike for tele or tele-esque guitars.it's a hangup of mine. others will be along shortly i am sure who might have a more informed opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hmm....I've spent a fair amount of time looking around the net and seeing what is available, and honestly I had not thought of this guitar being particularly 'tele-like'. If anything I was going for a 'Wolfgang' style look with fairly simplified and geometric horns and a little bit of forward motion in the tail end. I initially duplicated a wolfgang shape and then shifted everything slightly in illustrator and removed as many 'anchor points' as possible in the horns to see what would happen. Eventually I achieved a constant radius through the middle of the two horns that gave a simplified and I thought rather pleasing design. Certainly a tele wasn't my goal in this particular design, as I already have one of those and don't need another. But I do appreciate the feedback, apparently you've hit on something that I didn't see in the design visually. Maybe i've been staring at my tele for too long. Another thing that the rendering likely did not convey is that, if I think it is reasonable to try given my relative lack of skill, I may go with a carved top look, more like a PRS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Westhemann, I believe this is the model you are referring to: Spalt Tele versus mine by comparison...Obviously with a carved top this moves further away from the Spalt design. However, even based simply on profile I feel mine is significantly different. The slant in the rear body gives a sense of motion, and the horns are simplified, even compared to the Spalt 'tele' style. Personally, I think the top and bottom horns on the Spalt just don't match one another that well especially in comparison to an original style tele. Regardless, just for a reminder here is my design for comparison: My Design 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 (edited) Also, to further differentiate from the 'tele' look, here is a version with the addition of a couple of cutouts if I were to go the semi-hollowbody route: My Design 1B Edited January 31, 2007 by mattharris75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 the spalt guitar is just an example...but the similarities are there.i am not saying it is a bad thing...most of my guitars are based very heavily on other guitars...i just mean to say i can't give a good opinion on that because of the tele similarities. but search around the web a bit..you'll find quite a few that are very similar...again,no big deal.it's just that from your first post you seem like you are desiring a very unique design...that's just not the design for you if that is the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 The body shape is fine. My advise to you would be to make your own neck. If you want to get an understanding of building don't hesitate to build your own neck. Building a body will require you to learn how to use several tools and methods. A neck is no different. Finishing a guitar has a learning curve also. Setting up a guitar has a learning curve. I feel like you kinda put yourself at a disadvantage by not getting an understanding of the whole process. If it is a question of how involved the project becomes. Back off on the "lipstick"(figured veneers,semi-routed/drilled, etc...) and put the effort tward a full instrument. That is just my opinion. It is based on how I learned, and what I have seen other go through as they learned. Try to get a full understanding right out of the shoot. That way you won't have so many gaps in your understanding, ability and have a looming sense of apprehension about aspects of building. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 (edited) the spalt guitar is just an example...but the similarities are there.i am not saying it is a bad thing...most of my guitars are based very heavily on other guitars...i just mean to say i can't give a good opinion on that because of the tele similarities. but search around the web a bit..you'll find quite a few that are very similar...again,no big deal.it's just that from your first post you seem like you are desiring a very unique design...that's just not the design for you if that is the case Sorry, I wasn't trying to come across as if I was planning on doing something incredibly unique with my build. But I do see what you're saying in terms of similarities. I mean really, most guitars have a great deal of similarity amongst their designs, at least to one degree or another. Most of the great designs are very iconic. If we don't draw from those things then people have no context to understand the work. Some people like outrageous I suppose, but all i'm going for is something a hair different than what's been done before and that suits my tastes. You know, just to be able to look at something you built and say, "That's really cool and nobody else has anything else quite like it." Edited January 31, 2007 by mattharris75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 The body shape is fine. My advise to you would be to make your own neck. If you want to get an understanding of building don't hesitate to build your own neck. Building a body will require you to learn how to use several tools and methods. A neck is no different. Finishing a guitar has a learning curve also. Setting up a guitar has a learning curve. I feel like you kinda put yourself at a disadvantage by not getting an understanding of the whole process. If it is a question of how involved the project becomes. Back off on the "lipstick"(figured veneers,semi-routed/drilled, etc...) and put the effort tward a full instrument. That is just my opinion. It is based on how I learned, and what I have seen other go through as they learned. Try to get a full understanding right out of the shoot. That way you won't have so many gaps in your understanding, ability and have a looming sense of apprehension about aspects of building. Peace,Rich I guess I haven't ruled out building the neck. I just don't want to get in over my head the first time out and end up discouraged and not finishing the project. I suppose a safe course of action would be to build the body to certain standards, like strat scale length and neck pocket etc, so that I can leave myself with the option of either building or buying a neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I see a lot of the Rickenbacker Tulip there...it might be worth taking a look at how they balance the design. For one thing, I'm not so sure I like the headstock you have there. Sorry, I don't see much of a telecaster in there at all. But then, I like teles. One exercise that's very helpful is to build a full-scale mockup on a piece of pine or other scrap wood, and bolt a neck onto it. That'll give you a better feel of what the guitar's going to look and feel like in real life. Building is a pretty long process, at least when you're just beginning, so testing the design is a helpful step, before you commit to the actual build. The mockup can also become your template--and you're going to need a template Don't feel pressured about the neck if it's not a personal goal of yours. If it is, well, that's a whole other set of tools you'll be investing in soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Cool, I think it's definitely got a Rickenbacker vibe to it, particularly the version with the cutouts. Also, as far as the headstock goes, I just picked the Warmoth headstock design that I liked the best and put it on there. I actually have another rendering with a slightly modified version of that headstock that flows more with the curve of the horns. I guess just leaving my options open with the neck is going to be the best way to go at this point. I really like the idea of building a mock-up of the guitar before construction. If it works out I could use it as a template, if not then I will have a better idea of what I need to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Don't forget that you can modify the headstock shape on an existing neck too, within reason of course. A Strat-style headstock, for example, opens up a whole range of possibilities. It's a little more difficult reshaping a 3x3 headstock but it's definitely doable --I took a Les Paul style headstock and reshaped it as a reversed Rickenbacker headstock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I mean really, most guitars have a great deal of similarity amongst their designs, at least to one degree or another. Most of the great designs are very iconic. If we don't draw from those things then people have no context to understand the work. Some people like outrageous I suppose, but all i'm going for is something a hair different than what's been done before and that suits my tastes. You know, just to be able to look at something you built and say, "That's really cool and nobody else has anything else quite like it." i agree 100%....my building is based more on improving existing designs than creating new ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I guess I haven't ruled out building the neck. I just don't want to get in over my head the first time out and end up discouraged and not finishing the project. buy a preslotted and radiused fretboard...and build the neck before the body.it's a piece of cake,really.i love building necks...bodies are much tougher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I guess I haven't ruled out building the neck. I just don't want to get in over my head the first time out and end up discouraged and not finishing the project. buy a preslotted and radiused fretboard...and build the neck before the body.it's a piece of cake,really.i love building necks...bodies are much tougher Yeah, that's not a bad idea. That would certainly save some time as well as the need to invest in more tools. (at least for the time being) And i'd have more freedom with my headstock design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I like the mock-up. Shape is ok to me, and koa over mahogany has a nice warm look and will give you lots of finishing options as well. FWIW, and not that I've got a lot of guitars in the case already, but I started by building the whole thing. Not a policy decision on making necks or not making necks, its just the way I started. Having done it that way, I enjoy the whole process like Rich said. And I really like making the necks like Wes said. Like it a lot. More hand work I guess. Good luck, and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I guess I haven't ruled out building the neck. I just don't want to get in over my head the first time out and end up discouraged and not finishing the project. I suppose a safe course of action would be to build the body to certain standards, like strat scale length and neck pocket etc, so that I can leave myself with the option of either building or buying a neck. I understand your concerned about overloading yourself. Some people have an idea that building a neck is more difficult than it actually is, and this leads them to avoid giving it a try. Even if down the road you prefer to focus on finishes or body designs, and decide to buy your necks(nothing wrong with that at all). At least you will have a solid understanding and foundation. Don't feel pressured about the neck if it's not a personal goal of yours. If it is, well, that's a whole other set of tools you'll be investing in soon I hope you do not take what I am saying as "pressure". This has everything to do with how I(everyone has their own way of doing things) feel about the learning process and not wanting you to have "holes" in your knowledge and skills. I have no issue with starting with "kits" as a way to get your feet wet, and understand why people choose not to always build necks for each guitar. Personally, I started working on guitars by doing set-ups. I fixed some broken guitars. I did a couple re-finishes. Then I moved to a "bolt together" guitar(Strat). At that point I honestly had a lot of "holes" in my understanding of how things worked. When it came time to give a from scratch build a shot. I felt I wanted to do everything I could to really understand the process fully. It took some extra research and effort, but I believe it really paid off. When I did my first acoustic I felt the same way. I knew I wanted to make everything I could from scratch to get the best understanding of the build I could, and I believe it paid off again. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I hope you do not take what I am saying as "pressure". No, not to worry. I mean, sure, some of it's peer pressure, but in my own case, most of the pressure I feel comes from myself --knowing that this is the ultimate part of building your own guitar. But either I just don't feel ready to accomplish it, or I'm just not motivated enough. For whatever reason, I'm dragging my feet. Although I'm taking a middle-ground shortcut --I'm using pre-fretted fretboards. Even though I have the fretting tools I need, I decided to do it this way. Once I've convinced myself that I can carve and shape a viable neck, I'll tackle the fretting part as well. Step by step... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidlook Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Don't worry about building a neck being hard....I wasn't planning on building the neck on my first build. But I screwed something up (I think I kinda forgot to make a heel) and that forced me to make a set neck. Best mistake I ever did, I was chocked at how easy it was to make the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsnhavoc Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Here is a very similar design, with the offset bottom and all. This guitar is also chambered. Mahogany with maple cap. http://www.jacksonguitars.com/products/pro...10505585_md.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted February 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Here is a very similar design, with the offset bottom and all. This guitar is also chambered. Mahogany with maple cap. http://www.jacksonguitars.com/products/pro...10505585_md.gif Yeah, that Jackson looks nice. It's probably the most similar thing i've seen to what i've drawn up. Although the body isn't quite as voluptuous, it has a lot of very similar design elements. With this whole neck discussion I think we're getting into the fundamental differences in how people think and learn. But I think the bottom line is this, people have started their projects with very different intentions, and no particular way is necessarily right or wrong. I like the approach mentioned that with each time out the person builds a little more, or maybe replaces components they have purchased until they've built the entire guitar. But to each their own, ehh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 i love building necks...bodies are much tougher Crazy talk! I guess I need to build more necks, they're definitely much more difficult for me. But then again, I've built about 3 necks and 10 bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aturner Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I really like the design, my preference goes to the semi hollow with f-holes. The headstock looks a bit small compared to the body though. I have a bias towards larger headstocks (a la Rickenbacker), more so than most and that's probably coloring my opinion.. If you do decide to make your own neck that's what I'd recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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