wwwdotcomdotnet Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 For my next project my neck is going to be flamed maple / zebrano (zebrawood) / flamed maple, and in between I want to put some veneers. I was wondering if I could do three veneers in between each layer of the hardwood, or would that not be a good idea? The laminates are dyed maple / maple / dyed maple. So the neck would potentially be flamed maple / dyed maple veneer / maple veneer / dyed maple veneer / zebrano / dyed maple veneer / maple veneer / dyed maple veneer / flamed maple. Any reason not to? I realize this might possibly be weaker than using one veneer in between, but maybe not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Good luck gluing the veneers together. Even working with a single one in a neck was quite the challenge. Would it be weaker? Not if you glue everything up properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) I made a cavity cover by gluing 8 layers of flame maple veneer together. I alternated grain direction 45 degrees between each layer. It wasn't that hard to glue up. It also is extremely strong and stiff, much more so than a 1/4" piece of maple. Essentially it's just really fancy plywood . If I were you, I would glue the three veneers together by themselves, then glue that along with the neck lams. Edited April 10, 2007 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 if its not something your use to, practice; try multi lam veneers on the body sandwiches; what i dont like about veneers in the neck, (alot of them) is that everyone somewhere will have a glue line; that happens on any degree of skill, its basically the thin lil piece of wood that you cant plane or sand having defects that arent noticable to the human eye, but that glue can wedge in; now you multiply that by how many veneers your gluing togehter; mind you on a 3-4 ft. lenghth; and on top of all that your carving it into a radius which cuts into it (which makes it look wider and pronounced) and and the more layers in a neck, starting with a 3 piece show off any sort of flaws in the strightness and overall perfection of your neck, seeing a wobble in a pair of lines or a thick spot in a mostly thin stringer is for the most part more noticable than a small divit in final sanding; and they do happen oh, and if your not a strong glueer, just glue them seperate, do all the sandwiching you can individually, like; the outside piece with 2 venneers to the mid piece, and then after glue the other half on with the reaining venneers; now you have twice as long before the glue sets up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 I made a cavity cover by gluing 8 layers of flame maple veneer together. I alternated grain direction 45 degrees between each layer. It wasn't that hard to glue up. It also is extremely strong and stiff, much more so than a 1/4" piece of maple. Essentially it's just really fancy plywood . If I were you, I would glue the three veneers together by themselves, then glue that along with the neck lams. i dont see how you could glue that amount of veneer to each other without a sandwich of some sort between at least 1/4'' and even clamping cauls would get stuck to the glue coming through the grain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted April 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 i knew it would be tough, but gluing flexible veneers to each other seperately doesnt seem like it would make it any easier. if i were sandwiching them in between the hardwoods it would make more sense, as in glue the maple, 3 veneers (they are only 0.6mm thick each) then the zebrawood, let that dry then glue the other three veneers and the other side of maple for the neck to be completed. gluing the veneers seperately seems almost impossible to do right since they are so flexible, id need to sandwich them in between something, like the neck woods, so i might as well glue most of the neck at once, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yep, far easier to glue up in one go, ideally with a slightly oversize blank, so that you can tolerate a little bit off slippage. You may also find it helpful to drill for cocktail sticks in waste areas, and use them to keep everything aligned - that many layers get *super* slippy once they're all slathered with glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Reading through the thread, I was going to suggest the same thing Setch. Mainly because that's where I got the idea from in the first place. Anyway. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 I made a cavity cover by gluing 8 layers of flame maple veneer together. I alternated grain direction 45 degrees between each layer. It wasn't that hard to glue up. It also is extremely strong and stiff, much more so than a 1/4" piece of maple. Essentially it's just really fancy plywood . If I were you, I would glue the three veneers together by themselves, then glue that along with the neck lams. i dont see how you could glue that amount of veneer to each other without a sandwich of some sort between at least 1/4'' and even clamping cauls would get stuck to the glue coming through the grain It's easy. Take a piece of 3/4" MDF. Put a piece of wax paper on it. Lay down a piece of veneer. Slap some glue on it. Lay down another piece of veneer. Repeat until you have the thickness you want. Put down another piece of wax paper. Put down another 3/4" piece of MDF. Clamp the two pieces of MDF together. All done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwwdotcomdotnet Posted April 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 I made a cavity cover by gluing 8 layers of flame maple veneer together. I alternated grain direction 45 degrees between each layer. It wasn't that hard to glue up. It also is extremely strong and stiff, much more so than a 1/4" piece of maple. Essentially it's just really fancy plywood . If I were you, I would glue the three veneers together by themselves, then glue that along with the neck lams. i dont see how you could glue that amount of veneer to each other without a sandwich of some sort between at least 1/4'' and even clamping cauls would get stuck to the glue coming through the grain It's easy. Take a piece of 3/4" MDF. Put a piece of wax paper on it. Lay down a piece of veneer. Slap some glue on it. Lay down another piece of veneer. Repeat until you have the thickness you want. Put down another piece of wax paper. Put down another 3/4" piece of MDF. Clamp the two pieces of MDF together. All done. that seems like the most logical way to me. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 It's theoretically simple, but when dealing with lthe ong, narrow strips you'd use in a neck, it's a PITA. The moisture of the glue will caused movement in the veneers, and wrangling them into place and parallel can be extremely difficult. Also, why complicate; if you'll eventually be clamping the veneers bewteen your neck timbers, why add the step of clamping them between MDF? KISS where possible.... I recommend cutting the veneers a good 1/4" - 1/2" oversize, beause they will distort when wet, often becoming curved along their length, and you reeally don't want to end up with gaps where they have moved outside the area of your neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz tradie Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Is there any benefits of using epoxy for this type of stuff instead of titebond ? Cheers, Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Is there any benefits of using epoxy for this type of stuff instead of titebond ? Cheers, Stu Nope. It may make glueup a bit easier due to the lack of water, but it will make it much more likely that you'll get either a starved joint from over clapming, or visible gluelines from not clamping enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) Setch, you do make good points... it was particularly easy for the cavity cover because the pieces were pretty small. I can see how it would be harder with long pieces. I'm stubborn enough that I still think I personally would do it my way, but I can see the argument for doing it all at once too . (For anyone who's interested, Setch has done a lot more of this stuff than I have.) If anyone should try to glue up veneers with the method I described, I can only vouch for the fact that titebond doesn't stick to wax paper. If you use more exotic glues like CA, epoxy, or gorilla glue, I can't promise that the whole thing won't get stuck together. Edited April 11, 2007 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 You can also line your clamping cauls with brown parcel tape - not even CA glue sticks to that stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 You can also line your clamping cauls with brown parcel tape - not even CA glue sticks to that stuff ...or clear parcel tape. Works too! Seriously, I prefer tape to wax paper in every way. Apply it to the cauls, take it off later, no fiddly bits of paper slipping around, glue can't get under the tape even if you try really hard, and there's always some lying around anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 There's a special type of wood glue meant for veneers. Just google "veneer glue." It greatly reduces warping due to moisture content(compared to titebond) even though it's water based. Also, I've found that hitting the veneers with some glycerin(sold as "veneer softener") a day or so before glue up(and insuring they're completely dry before glue up) helps reduce distortion due to moisture as well. Crazy laminating like this makes me so glad I built a vacuum pump. With something like this, it'd be a matter of putting glue on everything, using a few thin brad nails at the ends to tack everything together to avoid slippage, then just throwing it all in a vinyl bag to clamp it all together with as even pressure distribution as you could ever ask for. peace, russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsguitar Posted April 11, 2007 Report Share Posted April 11, 2007 Everyone has some great suggestions on this topic. I just use tight bond my self with a gluing wheel and a 4" wide by 8" tall by 4' long I-beam and crap load of clamps for my glue ups. To explain what I mean by a glue wheel this is what it is. It is a plastic box about 5"x5" and 3" side walls. It has a 4" round wheel machined nice and flat and it sits on an axle. The box is a reservoir for glue and the wheel sit down partially in the glue. So when I take a board and run it across the wheel it leaves a nice even thin layer of glue. Then I just glue and stack up my neck lams and clamp away. It makes really quick work of the gluing part of this process. That way you don't risk some dried glue in some areas, as gluing up several lams can take allot of time to get the glue on all your wood. The idea came from an old waxing machine for snow skies. Set up in the same manner but was heated to keep the wax at a workable temp to put on the bottom of the skies. I you love to work with Hyde glue you could make one that is heated and glue away the day. Anyway I hope this helps someone I know it helped speed up my gluing process. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.