How Low Is "low" Action To You?

[Mind Riot]

For those of us that like to set their guitars up with low action, what do you consider to be "low" when making these kinds of adjustments? And what sort of mitigating factors do you run into that can change how you would set a guitar up?

I've only been doing fret work for a bit less than a year now. I've done about ten or so fret levels, using a few different methods, either on my own or some friends' guitars, all of them cheaper instruments. Thus far all have been satisfactory to good, at least as far as I can tell.

Truth be told, I'm not the pickiest when it comes to action being really low myself, but I sort of have become that way as a result of doing more work on guitars. So I'm curious as to what people who are really experienced, and who build guitars from scratch to their own specs, have to say.

I'm a rock and metal player, but not shred. I like to bend, I hit the guitar hard. I know that each person's touch comes into play when setting things up. Someone with more finesse would probably be able to get lower action than me, and I'm sure there are also harder pickers out there as well.

Thus far on my guitars I've only been able to get things so low with my playing style. I've leveled in the paths of the strings, creating a slight compound radius on the fret tops.

On one of my guitars, which has about a 13" radius or so, I can only get the action to just a hair above 3/64" on the high E without fretting out on a whole step bend at the fifteenth fret or so. If I don't bend, I can set it lower. The wound strings are just above 4/64".

On another guitar which has a 9 1/2" radius that flattens out to about a 12" due to the compound leveling, I have to set the high E at 4/64" to get whole step bends without fretting out. If I don't bend at all, I can set the action on this particular guitar to about 1/32" on the high strings and it will play cleanly.

I'm not particularly averse to having the action set this way, but I've heard of people getting it lower and I'm wondering what the X-factor in this is. Are people with super low action not big benders? Are they using guitars with very flat radii, like 16"? Or is my fret work not quite up to snuff and I should be able to get things lower as my fret work improves?

All thoughts welcome, and thanks for sharing.

[Mind Riot]

Did I post this in the wrong forum or something?

[Geo]

I think this is the right board. I'm also awaiting answers.

[rhoads56]

These topics always continue down the same tired old path... someone comes in here saying they get action as low as 1/1000th of an inch, without choking on a 6 semi-tone bend, and a 6" radius. Someone else cries out that thats BS.

Action is personal. Whatever works for you is perfect. The radius, type of bridge, string gauge, and your playing style all contribute.

[thegarehanman]

Do a search, this sort of thing has been talked about a lot. There's a lot of voodoo and misconceptions surrounding what "low action" is and how you should go about getting it.

I will tell you my secret weapon. If you lower the action a bit, your strings will buzz, but lower it about 1/8" lower and that buzzing will go right away.

[soapbarstrat]

Did I post this in the wrong forum or something?

From how this kind of topic usually goes, yeah, pretty much the wrong forum. Better suited for a wrestling forum.

[Mind Riot]

Did I post this in the wrong forum or something?

From how this kind of topic usually goes, yeah, pretty much the wrong forum. Better suited for a wrestling forum.

Heh Okay, I'll search around and see what I can find, I guess I probably should have just done that to start.

Can I assume that there's some good information on the subject to be found amid the carnage? Or is it just something people don't talk about?

[soapbarstrat]

Can I assume that there's some good information on the subject to be found amid the carnage? Or is it just something people don't talk about?

There's at least one thread where it was driven into the ground, came out in China , got caught on a Harbor Freight drill-press , then crashed into the side of Uranus. But everybody still probably failed to mention that the best action is when a matchbox cop car is chasing a hotwheels '69 camaro down the fret-board.

[fryovanni]

Did I post this in the wrong forum or something?

From how this kind of topic usually goes, yeah, pretty much the wrong forum. Better suited for a wrestling forum.

Heh Okay, I'll search around and see what I can find, I guess I probably should have just done that to start.

Can I assume that there's some good information on the subject to be found amid the carnage? Or is it just something people don't talk about?

To be honest with you. I have little interest in your topic. Mainly because it sounds like you have done Your homework, you have practiced your set-up technique, and you are getting the results that work well for your needs(no more no less). You don't need advice, you are doing just fine. Cheers!

Most of the time the people that ask these questions do not do the work, research, or try the tools until they find what works for them. They do not approach proper action from a "what works best approach", instead they look for some magical/mysterious solution to their lack of speed. Fret work is not mysterious or complex, and it sounds to me like you understand it just fine . When a buddy comes to you and asks you to get ultra low action, you achive an extreamly well done set up(that is lower than usual), then he pulls out the heavy pick and sloppy technique, and the strings slap the frets silly. You can work on how to explain the limits of low action, till then don't worry about it.

Peace,Rich

[soapbarstrat]

Wasn't it a thread started by drummerdude where it went on and on and on about low action ?

[RGman]

Wasn't it a thread started by drummerdude where it went on and on and on about low action ?

Sounds like one of his threads..

[Mind Riot]

Wasn't it a thread started by drummerdude where it went on and on and on about low action ?

Yes, I went and read it between my last post and this one. It was very entertaining.

I noticed in that thread that you said you regularly set action on the high E at about 1/32". I can only do that if I don't bend more than a semitone in the upper register, even with a 14" radius. I haven't built my neck jig yet, but perhaps once it's done and I get some more practice my fret work will allow that kind of setup.

I'm not really set on playing with that kind of action, but it would be a feather in my cap when my fret work got good enough to allow it.

I guess part of what prompted me to start the thread is that I was just wondering if the setup numbers I was getting indicated problems with my fret work. But for someone like me, who hits hard and bends far, it seems like fairly normal real world numbers (for people who aren't yet capable of your remarkable tolerances) based on what I've read, which makes me feel better. It's not so much that I need or want lower action, but it's the only practical litmus test I know of for the quality of my fret work. Based on what I've read, my results seem fairly normal and acceptable, but with room for improvement and more precision, which is fine with me.

[Southpa]

I learned one important fact about doing setups , fretwork etc. for other people. The way you play may not be the same. I remember doing some repair work on this guy's classical no-name, bridge was on its way out and action was damn near 1/2". I get the thing fixed and set it up the way a classical should play and return the guitar. The next day I get a call by the owner saying the low strings were buzzing. Hmmm....so I go over and tell him to show me. He picks up the guitar and starts wanging away (and I mean HARD) with a bigass plastic thumbpick. I said, "If thats the way you play your classical guitar I should have left it the way it was!"

[WezV]

try to ignore the numbers when doing set-ups, they are ok as a guide but really it all comes down to feel. It taken me a while to get right because i always thought my actions where quite high but the first thing i always hear about my guitars is "wow, that a great low action". I just do it so it doesnt buzz too much and feels right

[Mattia]

The reason it's nice to have a 'lower limit' is to use it to determine your neck angle more accurately. You don't need the ability to adjust the strings all the way down to the frets, after all.